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ECM Sooo Good!
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Doc Severide
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-07-27 12:05:56 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Someone really needs to establish a law about people who call people sheep. What is it, exactly, that makes me a sheep?

It's because you are fuzzy and huggable...

But you have a very good point....

What really pisses me off is I see it in 99.99% of printed communication everywhere not just EVE. That is the fact that people cannot grasp that loose does not mean the same thing as lose. Uneducated dolts...

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-07-27 12:08:06 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Someone really needs to establish a law about people who call people sheep. What is it, exactly, that makes me a sheep?

It's because you are fuzzy and huggable...

But you have a very good point....

What really pisses me off is I see it in 99.99% of printed communication everywhere not just EVE. That is the fact that people cannot grasp that loose does not mean the same thing as lose. Uneducated dolts...


No way man, I'm terrible. I hate hugging and I hate people. But I'm autistic, so I have an excuse. Pirate

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#23 - 2013-07-27 12:08:31 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.


And the people posting counters are basically saying that it's not a bad mechanic, but that the people who whine about it are just bad players.

If you think ECM is bad, you clearly have never run up against someone who is good at Sensor Damps. It's as bad if not worse. ECM has a chance to miss, it's RNG based. Sensor Damps don't. They lock you, and you're done. (both are countered by autofire missiles though, as opposed to TDs, which are countered by missiles in general)

And do you know why most ewar ships are used from extreme long range? Because they are hilariously squishy. Most of them cannot last 3 volleys from a ship of their size.

There are ways to deal with them. But sometimes it's tough luck, that's the nature of ewar, high risk (squishy) high reward (they can lock down another ship).

Surely this Falcon/Blackbird/Griffin or whatever else ewarmolested you wasn't by himself? Or did he kill you with drones?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Just Lilly
#24 - 2013-07-27 12:09:16 UTC
ECM is so random, it's a gamble

Even in small gang pvp
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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-07-27 12:10:42 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

No, a sheep is a farm animal. Go back to school.

If a player wants to make a whine thread because he or she doesn't like something about the game without offering any constructive criticism, then what do they expect? Anyway, what was actually said was, "the mechanics of ECM are bad," not, "I don't like the mechanics", and then someone claimed there was no counter. I was responding to that. Clearly, you're not paying attention to what's happening around you and doing your own thing regardless.


Oh thats cute, you just repeat what you've heard.

Whats new, sheep.


Oh that's cute, you again accused me of doing something without actually providing what it was I did, and then offered no actual substantial counter-argument.

I'm not repeating anything I heard, nobbit. I was explaining what I did, and why you are wrong. See how I explain what happened when I make accusations and you just make accusations with no demonstration of why that accusation is accurate? You're just running at the mouth like a butthurt 12 year old. Seriously, go back to school

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#26 - 2013-07-27 12:37:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Just Lilly wrote:
ECM is so random, it's a gamble

Even in small gang pvp


Well this is most people's problem, but it's a fallacy really.

I'd be happy to have ECM go from binary gamble to instead using the % as an effect on modules. So a 60% chance of jam becomes a 60% reduction to their DPS, a 60% percent reduction to a target painters effectiveness, etc etc etc. The average effect over the course of any typical engagement lasting more than a few seconds is EXACTLY THE SAME. There's no nerf here but I bet people will not whine because they can presss ma buttans.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#27 - 2013-07-27 12:40:54 UTC
Is that why sensor damps are all the rage at the moment?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2013-07-27 12:42:41 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Just Lilly wrote:
ECM is so random, it's a gamble

Even in small gang pvp


Well this is most people's problem, but it's a fallacy really.

I'd be happy to have ECM go from binary gamble to instead using the % as an effect on modules. So a 60% chance of jam becomes a 60% reduction to their DPS, a 60% percent reduction to a target painters effectiveness, etc etc etc. The average effect over the course of any typical engagement lasting more than a few seconds is EXACTLY THE SAME. There's no nerf here but I bet people will not whine because they can presss ma buttans.


The one I heard that was the best suggestion, is that it applies a stacking effect for every jam you hit with. The sensor strength of all of them is reduced, but when you land enough jams to stack higher than their sensor strength, they are jammed.

Same effect, really.

But I think you're right about people hating on ECM more because their buttons are locked out. Helplessness is so hurtful to their precious feelings.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-07-27 12:49:38 UTC
Perhaps each module that succesfully jams should reduce the targets max locked targets number by 1?

I just fixed ecm

:)
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#30 - 2013-07-27 12:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
If your worried about ECM, bring some EWAR support and a sniper or drone boat. FoF missiles work a treat in "small gangs". Seriously, there are plenty of options. Damps work well and they are an automatic success. Stop complaining, and start doing something about it.

killorbekilled TBE wrote:
Perhaps each module that succesfully jams should reduce the targets max locked targets number by 1?

I just fixed ecm

No, you just made is completely useless.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-07-27 15:27:41 UTC
+1. ECM is OP in small gangs. I like the direction CCP went in with the Cruiser buff, really helped small gangs. But ECM (Falcon/Took) need to be deleted or taken out or... SOMETHING!
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-07-27 21:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
Abyss Azizora wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
No you haven't and the fact you think you have means you suck at logic. It's besides the point though. The main problem with ECM is the mechanic itself. It is a bad mechanic to have no matter how good or bad it is in the current game balance. If you fix it to something less random and less frustrating to the victim, it can still be a powerful e-war mechanic.


Who cares about the victim in pvp?


The victim does obviously.

But yeah, ECM never should have been in the game in the first place, every other module in the game can be countered by either another module or with player skill, ECM has no such counter. (And don't say ECCM, even with two fit you can still be 100% disabled against a dedicated ecm ship.)

It's annoying to get tracking disrupted or sensor damped, it's "THE END" if you get ECM'd permanently.

Either way, it's pointless to argue against ECM, CCP doesn't give a rats ass about it. Never has, never will. Just be glad falcons arn't on the same level as god anymore.


Sensor damps + a kiting doctrine means you lose period. Regular jams can miss. There's a reason many gangs are swapping out falcons and the like for Celestis.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-07-27 21:46:16 UTC
posting in the monthly "nerf ECM/falcon/rook/blackbird/griffin" thread!

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#34 - 2013-07-27 22:09:44 UTC
Have you been watching the Alliance tournament? You see what EWAR is being most commonly used? Give you a hint, it's not ECM. Damps... Damps are currently the most effective EWAR you can bring in a small gang, if you know how to use it that is.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Whitehound
#35 - 2013-07-27 22:57:41 UTC
What would the ECM complaint look like if EVE was not a space game, but ...

... Rock-Paper-Scissors: "Nerf paper!"

... Chess: "Nerf check!"

... Poker: "Nerf flush!"

... Tic-Tac-Toe: "Nerf O!"

... Dice: "Nerf 6!"

... Black Jack: "Nerf 5!"

... Russian Roulette: "Nerf bullet!"

... Truth-Or-Dare: "Nerf truth!"

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
GreenSeed
#36 - 2013-07-27 23:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
best way to fix ECM is to make ECCM lower the duration of the jam instead of just giving a strong bonus to sensor strength.

Arduemont wrote:
Have you been watching the Alliance tournament? You see what EWAR is being most commonly used? Give you a hint, it's not ECM. Damps... Damps are currently the most effective EWAR you can bring in a small gang, if you know how to use it that is.

damps allow a gang to indirectly control the range of the engagement forcing to brawl or disengage. Damps are fun and strategic, ECM is just a force multiplier with no fun factor.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#37 - 2013-07-27 23:19:07 UTC
crosspost from

the major problem in EWAR is that it doesn't scale like weapons, drones, armor and shield reps or shield extenders and armor plates everything scales but EWAR.

so a frigate can do effective way more to a BS with EWAR then its guns as a BS will laugh at the DPS of most frigate`s

the lack of scalability makes it OP in some cases and totaly USELESS in some other cases. for example in a large fight EWAR is useless and in small fights it can be OP very easily.

my 2 cnt

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-07-27 23:34:37 UTC
ECM is OP as fduck!!!!
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-07-28 00:00:57 UTC
My main reasons for disliking ECM.

1. It is too random.
2. Causes people to lose ships without giving a fight.
3. Ruins small gang / solo PvP.

All of these translate into one thing: not fun.
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#40 - 2013-07-28 13:50:13 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
What would the ECM complaint look like if EVE was not a space game, but ...

... Rock-Paper-Scissors: "Nerf paper!"

... Chess: "Nerf check!"

... Poker: "Nerf flush!"

... Tic-Tac-Toe: "Nerf O!"

... Dice: "Nerf 6!"

... Black Jack: "Nerf 5!"

... Russian Roulette: "Nerf bullet!"

... Truth-Or-Dare: "Nerf truth!"




scissors says rock is OP but paper is well balanced.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
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