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Hi-sec suicide ganking

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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#101 - 2013-07-06 18:05:27 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:

A Procurer will usually be ignored in highsec. The Retreiver is easier to gank but I think it can fit an adaptive invuln or a medium shield extender and a damage control unit, which makes gankers look for other, easier targets. Same with the Mackinaw. One or two Catalysts I think can kill an undertanked Retreiver, two or three for the undertanked Mack, but the Mack can be tanked over 40k EHP vs. Antimatter ammo (common ganker guns) which makes people look for easier targets



I know that few miners will listen to this, but it's fact.

Something as simple as a DCII and an MSE of some sort will make many gankers try after a softer target. They may still hit you if pickings are slim, but if you've got a retriever fit with an MSE and a DCII, and you're parked next to some clown with three lows full of MLUs and a small booster in the mids for a rat tank, then you're going to be besting his yield all day long, since he's about to lose his ship when the Catalysts land.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#102 - 2013-07-06 18:56:40 UTC
Spectatoress wrote:


Und that makes a difference to the subject that nowadays its absurdly easy to gank a freighter in HighSec because of exactly ..... what?



I too would like to know that if its so easy, why do so few die?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Zoum
Energizerized
#103 - 2013-07-26 17:06:07 UTC
I'm quiet disappointed in myself. I hoped to follow up this post with the Kill Mail of myself killing those who ganked me but my kill rights are about up and they dock up every time I get in system.

It would have been epic to post a link and just say welcome to eve haha.

Oh well!
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#104 - 2013-07-26 17:08:49 UTC
Zoum wrote:
I'm quiet disappointed in myself. I hoped to follow up this post with the Kill Mail of myself killing those who ganked me but my kill rights are about up and they dock up every time I get in system.

It would have been epic to post a link and just say welcome to eve haha.

Oh well!



Next time, transfer the kill rights to a friend or an alt, or hire a mercenary to do the deed for you. That might not normally be necessary, but chances are they saw this thread and your intent to kill them, and played it safe.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Zoum
Energizerized
#105 - 2013-07-26 18:05:50 UTC
Galen Darksmith wrote:
Zoum wrote:
I'm quiet disappointed in myself. I hoped to follow up this post with the Kill Mail of myself killing those who ganked me but my kill rights are about up and they dock up every time I get in system.

It would have been epic to post a link and just say welcome to eve haha.

Oh well!



Next time, transfer the kill rights to a friend or an alt, or hire a mercenary to do the deed for you. That might not normally be necessary, but chances are they saw this thread and your intent to kill them, and played it safe.


Solid advice
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#106 - 2013-07-26 19:56:14 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

tank is part of a ships capability

So you think they're saying 30 Dessies costing around 70 mill should be able to gank a multi billion isk freighter before concord shows up? I didnt read that in the post at all. All I read was something about combat ship progression and top line shops not obsoleting formerly lower tier ships based purely on cost of hull.


To illustrate why you're wrong

Freighters can be ganked with noob ships with civilian guns that cost literally zero

ergo: to be balanced, freighters must have infinite EHP


The apparent paradox is that you're not including player effort in your calculations. 30 guys in destroyers can kill anything and they should be able to.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-07-26 19:58:08 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I too would like to know that if its so easy, why do so few die?


magapostrophes you should know better than to drop this weapons-grade logic on whine threads because you basically denied the rest of us at least a couple of solid pages of people raging about freighter ganks

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#108 - 2013-07-27 07:42:06 UTC
Andski wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I too would like to know that if its so easy, why do so few die?


magapostrophes you should know better than to drop this weapons-grade logic on whine threads because you basically denied the rest of us at least a couple of solid pages of people raging about freighter ganks



Well there's still the good old "while I accept that in general freighters in hi-sec should occasionally die, my freighter should in no way ever be one of them because grrr goons destroyers whargle garble CCP subscriptions what is hisec even for business case WoW bleeding out subscriptions GB2null basement dweller round and round the mulberry bush we go"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jorden Ishonen
Doomheim
#109 - 2013-07-27 09:13:26 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

tank is part of a ships capability

So you think they're saying 30 Dessies costing around 70 mill should be able to gank a multi billion isk freighter before concord shows up? I didnt read that in the post at all. All I read was something about combat ship progression and top line shops not obsoleting formerly lower tier ships based purely on cost of hull.


To illustrate why you're wrong

Freighters can be ganked with noob ships with civilian guns that cost literally zero

ergo: to be balanced, freighters must have infinite EHP


The apparent paradox is that you're not including player effort in your calculations. 30 guys in destroyers can kill anything and they should be able to.


You forgot to mention the fact that 70 mil for 30 destroyers is a laughable figure. I did a market check for 15 gank catalysts in another thread:

15 x Catalysts @ 1.25 mil: 18.75 mil
15 x 8 Light Neutron Blaster IIs @ 0.9 mil: 108 mil
15 x 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizers @ 0.8 mil: 36 mil
Total: 162.75 mil

So, for 30 dessies, you're looking at 325.50 mil investment. Somewhat larger than 70, I would say. And I'm not even a PvPer, let alone a ganker. I have no idea what goes in the mids, or if rigs are used. Ammo cost is probably low since you won't get many shots off. But the sheer bloody stupidity that I see on display about investments is always good for a chuckle.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#110 - 2013-07-27 09:35:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Jorden Ishonen wrote:

You forgot to mention the fact that 70 mil for 30 destroyers is a laughable figure. I did a market check for 15 gank catalysts in another thread:

15 x Catalysts @ 1.25 mil: 18.75 mil
15 x 8 Light Neutron Blaster IIs @ 0.9 mil: 108 mil
15 x 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizers @ 0.8 mil: 36 mil
Total: 162.75 mil

So, for 30 dessies, you're looking at 325.50 mil investment. Somewhat larger than 70, I would say. And I'm not even a PvPer, let alone a ganker. I have no idea what goes in the mids, or if rigs are used. Ammo cost is probably low since you won't get many shots off. But the sheer bloody stupidity that I see on display about investments is always good for a chuckle.

Mids - Sebos, lots of sebos with scan res scripts and some tackle on a couple.
Rigs - Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I, Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I.
Ammo - 15 rounds of Void-S or CN Antimatter-S per gun.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#111 - 2013-07-27 09:42:04 UTC
Jorden Ishonen wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

tank is part of a ships capability

So you think they're saying 30 Dessies costing around 70 mill should be able to gank a multi billion isk freighter before concord shows up? I didnt read that in the post at all. All I read was something about combat ship progression and top line shops not obsoleting formerly lower tier ships based purely on cost of hull.


To illustrate why you're wrong

Freighters can be ganked with noob ships with civilian guns that cost literally zero

ergo: to be balanced, freighters must have infinite EHP


The apparent paradox is that you're not including player effort in your calculations. 30 guys in destroyers can kill anything and they should be able to.


You forgot to mention the fact that 70 mil for 30 destroyers is a laughable figure. I did a market check for 15 gank catalysts in another thread:

15 x Catalysts @ 1.25 mil: 18.75 mil
15 x 8 Light Neutron Blaster IIs @ 0.9 mil: 108 mil
15 x 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizers @ 0.8 mil: 36 mil
Total: 162.75 mil

So, for 30 dessies, you're looking at 325.50 mil investment. Somewhat larger than 70, I would say. And I'm not even a PvPer, let alone a ganker. I have no idea what goes in the mids, or if rigs are used. Ammo cost is probably low since you won't get many shots off. But the sheer bloody stupidity that I see on display about investments is always good for a chuckle.


Dishonesty, conflation and straight up lies in a suicide gank whinethread?

UNPOSSIBLE!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jorden Ishonen
Doomheim
#112 - 2013-07-27 16:05:38 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Jorden Ishonen wrote:

You forgot to mention the fact that 70 mil for 30 destroyers is a laughable figure. I did a market check for 15 gank catalysts in another thread:

15 x Catalysts @ 1.25 mil: 18.75 mil
15 x 8 Light Neutron Blaster IIs @ 0.9 mil: 108 mil
15 x 3 Magnetic Field Stabilizers @ 0.8 mil: 36 mil
Total: 162.75 mil

So, for 30 dessies, you're looking at 325.50 mil investment. Somewhat larger than 70, I would say. And I'm not even a PvPer, let alone a ganker. I have no idea what goes in the mids, or if rigs are used. Ammo cost is probably low since you won't get many shots off. But the sheer bloody stupidity that I see on display about investments is always good for a chuckle.

Mids - Sebos, lots of sebos with scan res scripts and some tackle on a couple.
Rigs - Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I, Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I.
Ammo - 15 rounds of Void-S or CN Antimatter-S per gun.


Well, I could be less lazy and pricecheck those items too. On the other hand, someone told me in the other thread (could have been you, my memory is ****) that a gank catalyst is in the ballpark of 20 mil, and if you're rigging it and fitting t2 sensor boosters with scripts, I can buy that number.

So, 20 mil x 30 dessies = 600 million ISK.

And that is why you will not be ganked for profit if you are carrying less than 1 billion ISK in your freighter. More than that, and their profit margin grows while your survival odds shrinks.