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What keeps this game interesting?
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Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#21 - 2013-07-27 07:31:30 UTC
F1 is a hotkey, does that count?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-07-27 07:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Shanky Shanks wrote:

We are obviously not going to agree here lol. I have never experienced a game where there isn't an advantage in doing something faster then your opponents and I do not believe that game is this game, nor will it ever exist in anything other then a true turn based game. When speaking of fleet battles I would say my opinion is amplified. Take a mirror fleet with a mirror leader, Let one be bound to clicking and the other to hotkeys. Who will win? If you truly believe that it will be a equal fight then I'm sorry friend.
This game is far from based off mirror engagements but still, an advantage is an advantage. Like I said, in a game where you trains days to months for a 5% bonus, having a 10 to 20 to 100% speed increase in your actions by simply using hotkeys over clicking.. Seems to make sense to me.

In small ship combat hot keying may be a little more important but the person who wins is the person who watches and counters. This is not arena combat with a set rotation of key pressing type game.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#23 - 2013-07-27 07:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Shanky Shanks wrote:
it feels so dry in this game. I've made over a billion isk within my short time playing and am feeling as though this game presents no challenge. I've watched some youtube videos and watched guys clicking all over their screen as they fight other pilots.......Who in the hell clicks in pvp, It's hotkeys and hotkeys only, miliseconds matter, None the less these pilots win battle after battle which tells me this game is really nothing but a "I've got more time invested into skills then you" game.

This is where you've gone wrong.

It's not a matter of clicking faster than everyone else... rather...

- it's about accumulating knowledge of the mechanics and metas (fits, tectics, etc) that others use and using it against others.
- planning ahead of time and employing strategy in a multi-faceted way.
- stacking the odds in your favor (in any way you can).

Basically... think of the game more as something akin to chess rather than League of Legends.


Overall skill points matter only matter when you are facing someone in a pure 1v1 situation... which rarely happens (and only results on the odds being stacking in favor of your opponent... it in no way guarantees his/her victory).

Shanky Shanks wrote:
I really want to enjoy this game. I love the idea of this game, I love space, space ships, pvp, making in game money, challenges and grinds but none of it seems to be keeping my attention. Where is the challenge and where is the fun in this game? What do YOU do that keeps you hooked? As of right now I feel like sitting in a hangar for a few months waiting for reasonable skills to be trained.

Start by working for others. Learn from them. Soak up the knowledge they have at their disposal. Help them stack the odds in their favor (which will usually result in your death) and learn from it.

Social gameplay is a big part of EVE and will often result in you gaining much more than you could ever achieve by yourself (even with large amounts of skill points).

How did you Veterans start?
Willie Horton
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-07-27 07:54:30 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:
I have been in the top 1% of players in their arenas, so I love every aspect of pvp, but it feels so dry in this game. I've made over a billion isk within my short time playing and am feeling as though this game presents no challenge. I've watched some youtube videos and watched guys clicking all over their screen as they fight other pilots.......Who in the hell clicks in pvp, It's hotkeys and hotkeys only, miliseconds matter,


Thank god we are not in relm of games where you need to have reflexes of 16 year old kid to be good in something.
PvP in EVE is not like WoW and games like that ,where you need to much reflexes.Its is more like RTS.You dont benefit from how fast you click ,you benefit from intel and your plan how to do fight or run away.
Mostly ppl try to use brain here in EVE ,and usually those with more brain win ,no matter how fast fingers other dude have.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#25 - 2013-07-27 08:00:38 UTC
[/quote]
In small ship combat hot keying may be a little more important but the person who wins is the person who watches and counters. This is not arena combat with a set rotation of key pressing type game.[/quote]

Haha, Your post my favorite so far. The only time pvp becomes a set rotation of key pressing is when you quit trying to get better.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#26 - 2013-07-27 08:01:56 UTC
Wow, OP:

You sound like a such a complete, high-on-yourself, perfect little jerk.

Lose the attitude, and stop self-righteously trying to force other-game-informed preconceptions onto this one just because you might twitch a little faster in those.

Because you'll find most groups you join will be showing you the door in short order with that mentality.

Sorry, but you don't get to come into our forums and tell long-established community members and contributors that they're not good just because your muscle-memory is a bit more habituated than theirs might be in games they might not even play.

Those other games are utter ****, and people like you are a large part of the reason why.

STFU n00b, no-one here cares how good you think you were.

I might as well call it in advance, because I think I can see it coming miles off:

I can haz ur stuffs?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#27 - 2013-07-27 08:07:46 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:
You're saying that clicking is acceptable, I'm saying it is not. You say it's acceptable because the servers are based off 1 second intervals, I believe that hotkeys get more actions per second and If you get to a point to where you are equally matched with someone and you are doing everything at twice the speed then you will win. Hotkeys bring more then twice the speed, every action is done light years faster then someone navigating click by click across their screen. It may not have as large of an impact as a twitch game but it is certainly an advantage. When dealing with a 30 seconds battle, If someone doing everything with hotkeys can do twice the amount of actions as someone clicking, then there will be an advantage. In a game that can require a month of training to gain a 5% advantage in a skill this should be easy to realize.

Aside from our argument I appreciate you throwing in a tip. I will definitely check out BN. Thank you



Point to where I said not to use hotkeys. They're convenient and help prevent miss-clicks.

That said, If I can do all the button pressing I need to do within the same 1 second server tick, it does not matter if you're faster at pressing the buttons.

Your guns don't cycle faster, your ship doesn't change direction faster, nothing happens faster just because you can press a button faster.

The server essentially sees all commands that arrive in the same tick (usu. 1 second) as arriving simultaneously.

Shanky Shanks wrote:
We are obviously not going to agree here lol. I have never experienced a game where there isn't an advantage in doing something faster then your opponents and I do not believe that game is this game, nor will it ever exist in anything other then a true turn based game. When speaking of fleet battles I would say my opinion is amplified. Take a mirror fleet with a mirror leader, Let one be bound to clicking and the other to hotkeys. Who will win? If you truly believe that it will be a equal fight then I'm sorry friend.
This game is far from based off mirror engagements but still, an advantage is an advantage. Like I said, in a game where you trains days to months for a 5% bonus, having a 10 to 20 to 100% speed increase in your actions by simply using hotkeys over clicking.. Seems to make sense to me.


TiDi slows down the simulation, so instead of accepting new commands every second, the server accepts them every 1/(TiDi factor) seconds. I can do a lot with my mouse in the 10 second tick of a 10% TiDi fight. I can go take a leak and get a beer during most warps in 10% TiDi.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-07-27 08:12:21 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:

You're saying that clicking is acceptable, I'm saying it is not. You say it's acceptable because the servers are based off 1 second intervals, I believe that hotkeys get more actions per second and If you get to a point to where you are equally matched with someone and you are doing everything at twice the speed then you will win. Hotkeys bring more then twice the speed, every action is done light years faster then someone navigating click by click across their screen. It may not have as large of an impact as a twitch game but it is certainly an advantage. When dealing with a 30 seconds battle, If someone doing everything with hotkeys can do twice the amount of actions as someone clicking, then there will be an advantage. In a game that can require a month of training to gain a 5% advantage in a skill this should be easy to realize.

That's juts not how EVE works. The server updates the position & status of all objects in space once per second. No matter whether you click or use a hotkey your action will be queued and processed at the next server tick. The EVE client runs a local simulation that runs at a higher clockspeed to give you a smooth experience but at the end of the day only the server-side simulation matters,

.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#29 - 2013-07-27 08:38:27 UTC
@ OP:
Either nice, genuine superiority complex, or bad troll.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#30 - 2013-07-27 08:41:17 UTC
Oh wow ahaha. So much rage. I have figured it out, Eve is all the pve players who have failed at pvp in other games and now need what they believe to be a slow paced intellectual game to conquer. All of you trying to tell me that doing something twice as fast DOESN'T MATTER. rofl. You all believe that twitch reflexes are what makes a player good in every other game that isn't eve, when in fact it couldn't be less true. Never have I been a fast person, I only out smart you and use simple things (such as hot keys) to my advantage.

I can't even quote all of the ******** threads here, but you have all inspired me. This game is for children, everyone is behind the power curve. In other games you need knowledge of the game as well as skills, apparently according to the community in this thread, you only need knowledge of the game here. Your ability to execute what you know faster then your opponent means nothing! The servers simply deny me being able to do twice what you can in the same amount of time. We will see, I look forward to finding you in eve. A "16 year old twitch kid" is now apart of your universe. Except I'm 23, learn games with ease and do not limit myself by server restrictions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfAxfsR9u_o
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#31 - 2013-07-27 08:48:12 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:
Oh wow ahaha. So much rage. I have figured it out, Eve is all the pve players who have failed at pvp in other games and now need what they believe to be a slow paced intellectual game to conquer. All of you trying to tell me that doing something twice as fast DOESN'T MATTER. rofl. You all believe that twitch reflexes are what makes a player good in every other game that isn't eve, when in fact it couldn't be less true. Never have I been a fast person, I only out smart you and use simple things (such as hot keys) to my advantage.

I can't even quote all of the ******** threads here, but you have all inspired me. This game is for children, everyone is behind the power curve. In other games you need knowledge of the game as well as skills, apparently according to the community in this thread, you only need knowledge of the game here. Your ability to execute what you know faster then your opponent means nothing! The servers simply deny me being able to do twice what you can in the same amount of time. We will see, I look forward to finding you in eve. A "16 year old twitch kid" is now apart of your universe. Except I'm 23, learn games with ease and do not limit myself by server restrictions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfAxfsR9u_o
Planet 3 Civic Court Law School, Hophib, Aridia, Amarr Space, New Eden.
Bring it on.

And now I know. It's both a troll AND a superiority complex.
Le Badass
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-07-27 08:48:58 UTC
This is some pretty solid trolling.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#33 - 2013-07-27 08:55:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Shanky Shanks
Superiority complex is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person's feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority.

Confidence is generally described as a state of being certain either that a hypothesis or prediction is correct or that a chosen course of action is the best or most effective.

Superiority complex keeps being thrown around here as if I'm scared of this forum. I know that for most nerds, confidence is something that is a myth living in the Websters dictionary... I assure you fellow nerds, it does exist, even among us.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#34 - 2013-07-27 09:01:57 UTC
Does English have a term for "I know so little, I can't foresee that these actions aren't brave or confident, they just seem so because I have no idea what's going on" ?
I need it for a guy on the internet.

Anyway, you got my location. What's your ETA?
Sol Kal'orr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-07-27 09:04:30 UTC
Shanky Shanks wrote:
Oh wow ahaha. So much rage. I have figured it out, Eve is all the pve players who have failed at pvp in other games and now need what they believe to be a slow paced intellectual game to conquer. All of you trying to tell me that doing something twice as fast DOESN'T MATTER. rofl. You all believe that twitch reflexes are what makes a player good in every other game that isn't eve, when in fact it couldn't be less true. Never have I been a fast person, I only out smart you and use simple things (such as hot keys) to my advantage.

I can't even quote all of the ******** threads here, but you have all inspired me. This game is for children, everyone is behind the power curve. In other games you need knowledge of the game as well as skills, apparently according to the community in this thread, you only need knowledge of the game here. Your ability to execute what you know faster then your opponent means nothing! The servers simply deny me being able to do twice what you can in the same amount of time. We will see, I look forward to finding you in eve. A "16 year old twitch kid" is now apart of your universe. Except I'm 23, learn games with ease and do not limit myself by server restrictions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfAxfsR9u_o


Shanky Shanks wrote:
Superiority complex is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person's feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority.

Confidence is generally described as a state of being certain either that a hypothesis or prediction is correct or that a chosen course of action is the best or most effective.

Superiority complex keeps being thrown around here as if I'm scared of this forum. I know that for most nerds, confidence is something that is a myth living in the Websters dictionary... I assure you fellow nerds, it does exist, even among us.


I like irony.
Sol Kal'orr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-07-27 09:06:52 UTC
Helpful post time now. Lay off the trolling and look for a good pvp corp.
Shanky Shanks
Shanky Shanks Corporation
#37 - 2013-07-27 09:15:55 UTC
Sol Kal'orr wrote:
Helpful post time now. Lay off the trolling and look for a good pvp corp.


This originated as a truthful question about how to enjoy this game. It turned into a bunch of people telling me that someones ability to do everything twice as fast will bring you no advantage, only a superiority complex of thinking you're faster. I have learned something from this thread though, the majority of players in this game will be easy to beat once I know the same things they do. I must find a corp that is fun and knows that pvp is about not only knowledge, but your ability to execute that knowledge faster then other players, even if it's only milliseconds faster.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#38 - 2013-07-27 09:24:46 UTC
What keeps the game interesting?


I'd have to say : "other players".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#39 - 2013-07-27 09:25:28 UTC
Me.

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#40 - 2013-07-27 09:27:10 UTC
Outer.

Space.

Signatures should be used responsibly...