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Why "high sec bears" don't go to null

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-07-27 07:45:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I decided to take my Proteus out for a bit of pew pew in 0.0 space. So I chucked on cloak and nullifier and set course for a nullbear station system 38 jumps into 0.0 space.

Soon as I got there everyone docks up. So I go AFK for a while come back and kill someone who decided to rat in local with a neut in system. I'm not happy with my DPS due to nulli sub so I jump 78 jumps dodging camps back to refit.

Few hours after arriving I spot an Oracle and engage him, being a high seccer with no skills I forgot to turn off my repeat on my XL ASB when I refit and cap out with him at 5% hull. Luckily he burns his guns out and I escape with 40% hull.

He docks up, I jump round trip 78 jumps back for reps.

Operating in 0.0 without joining the sheep is annoying. Its time intensive. It costs twice as much as a normal sub (activated an alt account with RR and cargo of boosters, ammo) to act as ghetto station.

In short 0.0 is shite for non-alliance. I think people might go out if it wasn't so one sidedly balanced in favor of nullbears.


Excellent, you've now seen for yourself why so many of us are keen to see some kind of remotely balanced situation between hi-sec and 0.0 rather than the current situation where there no reason whatsoever to be in sov 0.0 unless you're sitting on a titan waiting to bridge in.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Yaturi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-07-27 07:52:32 UTC
We already had this threadnaught in Features and Ideas. I don't care what any of you guys say, outlawing or dirt cheapening LEARNING implants would bring more pvp to the outer systems. [/truth]
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-07-27 07:55:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I decided to take my Proteus out for a bit of pew pew in 0.0 space. So I chucked on cloak and nullifier and set course for a nullbear station system 38 jumps into 0.0 space.

Soon as I got there everyone docks up. So I go AFK for a while come back and kill someone who decided to rat in local with a neut in system. I'm not happy with my DPS due to nulli sub so I jump 78 jumps dodging camps back to refit.

Few hours after arriving I spot an Oracle and engage him, being a high seccer with no skills I forgot to turn off my repeat on my XL ASB when I refit and cap out with him at 5% hull. Luckily he burns his guns out and I escape with 40% hull.

He docks up, I jump round trip 78 jumps back for reps.

Operating in 0.0 without joining the sheep is annoying. Its time intensive. It costs twice as much as a normal sub (activated an alt account with RR and cargo of boosters, ammo) to act as ghetto station.

In short 0.0 is shite for non-alliance. I think people might go out if it wasn't so one sidedly balanced in favor of nullbears.


Excellent, you've now seen for yourself why so many of us are keen to see some kind of remotely balanced situation between hi-sec and 0.0 rather than the current situation where there no reason whatsoever to be in sov 0.0 unless you're sitting on a titan waiting to bridge in.

It disturbs me that we agree on something :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#24 - 2013-07-27 08:09:39 UTC
Well until it is fixed for everyone you could consider camping a wormhole with a static null. Use an Orca alt for reship, storage and repair. You will die eventually but it will be exhilarating.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-07-27 08:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Zappity wrote:
Well until it is fixed for everyone you could consider camping a wormhole with a static null. Use an Orca alt for reship, storage and repair. You will die eventually but it will be exhilarating.

Yeah but I have no issue with wormhole peeps, they live in a localless environment where they can die anytime. High seccers operate in systems full of nuetrals, we can get ganked anytime. NPC null has many nuetrals and the same applies.

But deep sov null, having been out there AFK cloaking for the last week and making the occassion sortie on a ship, I see Machs, T3, Navy BS, Rattlers, pimped out ships. Several times I have scrammed and attacked people in system, expecting a brick fit and scram trap. Nope, they operate independently just like high sec. No help arrives.

First 24 hours I was there, npc ships killed went from 4000 to 500. Last night a friend cloaked up next door, local went from 12 people to just him in about an hour.

Its high sec but with much more profit and no risk players. I want to kill those.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#26 - 2013-07-27 08:57:18 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Well until it is fixed for everyone you could consider camping a wormhole with a static null. Use an Orca alt for reship, storage and repair. You will die eventually but it will be exhilarating.

Yeah but I have no issue with wormhole peeps, they live in a localless environment where they can die anytime. High seccers operate in systems full of nuetrals, we can get ganked anytime. NPC null has many nuetrals and the same applies.

But deep sov null, having been out there AFK cloaking for the last week and making the occassion sortie on a ship, I see Machs, T3, Navy BS, Rattlers, pimped out ships. Several times I have scrammed and attacked people in system, expecting a brick fit and scram trap. Nope, they operate independently just like high sec. No help arrives.

First 24 hours I was there, npc ships killed went from 4000 to 500. Last night a friend cloaked up next door, local went from 12 people to just him in about an hour.

Its high sec but with much more profit and no risk players. I want to kill those.


Sure, I understand all that. What a wormhole with a null static offers is a one-jump route to random null. Statistically it will be deep sov null more often that not (I think).

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-07-27 09:00:42 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Well until it is fixed for everyone you could consider camping a wormhole with a static null. Use an Orca alt for reship, storage and repair. You will die eventually but it will be exhilarating.

Yeah but I have no issue with wormhole peeps, they live in a localless environment where they can die anytime. High seccers operate in systems full of nuetrals, we can get ganked anytime. NPC null has many nuetrals and the same applies.

But deep sov null, having been out there AFK cloaking for the last week and making the occassion sortie on a ship, I see Machs, T3, Navy BS, Rattlers, pimped out ships. Several times I have scrammed and attacked people in system, expecting a brick fit and scram trap. Nope, they operate independently just like high sec. No help arrives.

First 24 hours I was there, npc ships killed went from 4000 to 500. Last night a friend cloaked up next door, local went from 12 people to just him in about an hour.

Its high sec but with much more profit and no risk players. I want to kill those.


Sure, I understand all that. What a wormhole with a null static offers is a one-jump route to random null. Statistically it will be deep sov null more often that not (I think).

Oh yeah... I just got back to EvE after 3 year break. I'm a knob. Thank you very much.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#28 - 2013-07-27 09:03:03 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Well until it is fixed for everyone you could consider camping a wormhole with a static null. Use an Orca alt for reship, storage and repair. You will die eventually but it will be exhilarating.

Yeah but I have no issue with wormhole peeps, they live in a localless environment where they can die anytime. High seccers operate in systems full of nuetrals, we can get ganked anytime. NPC null has many nuetrals and the same applies.

But deep sov null, having been out there AFK cloaking for the last week and making the occassion sortie on a ship, I see Machs, T3, Navy BS, Rattlers, pimped out ships. Several times I have scrammed and attacked people in system, expecting a brick fit and scram trap. Nope, they operate independently just like high sec. No help arrives.

First 24 hours I was there, npc ships killed went from 4000 to 500. Last night a friend cloaked up next door, local went from 12 people to just him in about an hour.

Its high sec but with much more profit and no risk players. I want to kill those.


Sure, I understand all that. What a wormhole with a null static offers is a one-jump route to random null. Statistically it will be deep sov null more often that not (I think).

Oh yeah... I just got back to EvE after 3 year break. I'm a knob. Thank you very much.


No problem. Just keep the Orca aligned or some bastard will gank you Big smile

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#29 - 2013-07-27 09:31:42 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Well until it is fixed for everyone you could consider camping a wormhole with a static null. Use an Orca alt for reship, storage and repair. You will die eventually but it will be exhilarating.

Yeah but I have no issue with wormhole peeps, they live in a localless environment where they can die anytime. High seccers operate in systems full of nuetrals, we can get ganked anytime. NPC null has many nuetrals and the same applies.

But deep sov null, having been out there AFK cloaking for the last week and making the occassion sortie on a ship, I see Machs, T3, Navy BS, Rattlers, pimped out ships. Several times I have scrammed and attacked people in system, expecting a brick fit and scram trap. Nope, they operate independently just like high sec. No help arrives.

First 24 hours I was there, npc ships killed went from 4000 to 500. Last night a friend cloaked up next door, local went from 12 people to just him in about an hour.

Its high sec but with much more profit and no risk players. I want to kill those.




I'm glad you have a female avatar so I didn't feel gay wanting to kiss you for posting that.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-07-27 09:44:08 UTC
I'm not sure what this thread is about.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#31 - 2013-07-27 09:45:18 UTC
Cause I could be there!

DUN DUN DUN ^_^

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#32 - 2013-07-27 10:00:40 UTC
TL;DR because null-sec is not casual.

This is why I avoid null, low, WH space - they requires too much time, dedication, skill - like raiding in MMORPGs.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#33 - 2013-07-27 10:31:58 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I don't want to fight NPC null peeps, I want to murder Sov null bears who think they should be allowed to carebear in complete safety. We should be encouraged to fight in true null not discouraged.

You can base out of NPC null near sov null and head into sov null to hunt. This way you don't have to keep going back to high sec to repair and such. You can use a service like black frog to get stuff shiipped to you.

Malcanis wrote:
Excellent, you've now seen for yourself why so many of us are keen to see some kind of remotely balanced situation between hi-sec and 0.0 rather than the current situation where there no reason whatsoever to be in sov 0.0 unless you're sitting on a titan waiting to bridge in.

Surely the current balance is fine. Null player fight null players. High sec players refusing to join an alliance can't take sov because the bigger groups will smash them to pieces. This is what would be expected when you are fighting. it you can only form 10 people then the 1000 you are against is too big, thus you need allies.
You don't see high sec people running around wormholes and lowsec that much either. There's no point in carebearing null sec up just to give PVE solo players somewhere else to go.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lee Hekard
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-07-27 10:47:57 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
I'm not sure what this thread is about.


Same.

But on the topic of Nullsec (even though it may be off topic for the thread), I think that Local plays a large part in why 'good' PVP is hard to come by. Everyone just docks / POS's up. WH space has a much more healthy environment for what it is designed to be compared to Nullsec. Fundamentally, Nullsec mechanics are treated very much like Highsec mechnics except you can use bubbles. If a ship enters one of these 'lawless' systems then you immediately know via Local and simply dock up. Having lived in Null for a number of months on previous toons I never really felt that much under threat. But when I lived in WH space for a few months it was much more the 'EVE' experience as it was meant to be. Nullsec is easy, sorry but it is.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#35 - 2013-07-27 10:53:52 UTC
Lee Hekard wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
I'm not sure what this thread is about.


Same.

But on the topic of Nullsec (even though it may be off topic for the thread), I think that Local plays a large part in why 'good' PVP is hard to come by. Everyone just docks / POS's up. WH space has a much more healthy environment for what it is designed to be compared to Nullsec. Fundamentally, Nullsec mechanics are treated very much like Highsec mechnics except you can use bubbles. If a ship enters one of these 'lawless' systems then you immediately know via Local and simply dock up. Having lived in Null for a number of months on previous toons I never really felt that much under threat. But when I lived in WH space for a few months it was much more the 'EVE' experience as it was meant to be. Nullsec is easy, sorry but it is.

Somebody is mad that miners don't just sit there and wait to be ganked...

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
flakeys
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-07-27 10:55:14 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I don't want to fight NPC null peeps, I want to murder Sov null bears who think they should be allowed to carebear in complete safety. We should be encouraged to fight in true null not discouraged.



It's sov null for a reason duh.


Yeah i wanna buy a ford because it's cheap but i want it to go as fast as the Ferrari of my neighbour.That'll show him .



In my experience npc null is more fun then sov null.A lot more small scale fights and less docking up when someone enters.

Unlesss you are just after easy ganks of carebears as you mention them as you dislike an actuall fight ?

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Lee Hekard
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-07-27 10:57:40 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lee Hekard wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
I'm not sure what this thread is about.


Same.

But on the topic of Nullsec (even though it may be off topic for the thread), I think that Local plays a large part in why 'good' PVP is hard to come by. Everyone just docks / POS's up. WH space has a much more healthy environment for what it is designed to be compared to Nullsec. Fundamentally, Nullsec mechanics are treated very much like Highsec mechnics except you can use bubbles. If a ship enters one of these 'lawless' systems then you immediately know via Local and simply dock up. Having lived in Null for a number of months on previous toons I never really felt that much under threat. But when I lived in WH space for a few months it was much more the 'EVE' experience as it was meant to be. Nullsec is easy, sorry but it is.

Somebody is mad that miners don't just sit there and wait to be ganked...


Its not about wanting ppl to just sit there. In WH space a mining fleet with security escort can be attacked by an organized force, the absence of local offers this chance. But in Null as soon as a neut pops up on local everyone scatters like cockroaches back to their POS's and nothing happens for a few hours. Is that really what EVE is about?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#38 - 2013-07-27 11:07:03 UTC
Lee Hekard wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lee Hekard wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
I'm not sure what this thread is about.


Same.

But on the topic of Nullsec (even though it may be off topic for the thread), I think that Local plays a large part in why 'good' PVP is hard to come by. Everyone just docks / POS's up. WH space has a much more healthy environment for what it is designed to be compared to Nullsec. Fundamentally, Nullsec mechanics are treated very much like Highsec mechnics except you can use bubbles. If a ship enters one of these 'lawless' systems then you immediately know via Local and simply dock up. Having lived in Null for a number of months on previous toons I never really felt that much under threat. But when I lived in WH space for a few months it was much more the 'EVE' experience as it was meant to be. Nullsec is easy, sorry but it is.

Somebody is mad that miners don't just sit there and wait to be ganked...


Its not about wanting ppl to just sit there. In WH space a mining fleet with security escort can be attacked by an organized force, the absence of local offers this chance. But in Null as soon as a neut pops up on local everyone scatters like cockroaches back to their POS's and nothing happens for a few hours. Is that really what EVE is about?

Sure it is. They go for sov because it provides them with higher levels of security. If local was removed, null industry would crash as it would be considerably less appealing (and its really not that appealing as it is). It wouldn't provide any "gudfites" it would simply make targeting half damaged ratters or miners easier to gank.

Tricks to cloak and move your probes, use D-scan to get a rough location then instant probe an enemy mean that you'd need to be D-scanning every 5 seconds to have a chance of seeing the probes pop up to warn you there's someone about. WH space is riskier due to the nature of local, but then the rewards are much better. WH space offers considerably better isk rewards than null and is a shorter safer trip to regular space most of the time (you usually don't have to take 40 wormholes through camps to get to high).

I think changes like that to null would just make null as empty as WH space. Sure you'd have your hardcore groups sticking to it, but most of it would just be the odd player here and there.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#39 - 2013-07-27 11:21:21 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I don't want to fight NPC null peeps, I want to murder Sov null bears who think they should be allowed to carebear in complete safety. We should be encouraged to fight in true null not discouraged.


AWOX
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2013-07-27 11:42:24 UTC
Nice read. But i doubt you was seeking PvP. And if you used a shield tanked Proteus, be glad you did not find PvP, just a bear in a Oracle. Well, if you admit you was looking for a gank, there might be people telling you that it's better to use a Loki. But hehe, since you wanted PvP, i think you don't need such advices lol. Lol