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ECM Sooo Good!
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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-07-27 06:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Suddenly Forums ForumKings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEuauDBkPt0&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLMpIYY3BOimUasUXuayrpjN

CCP you need to nerf rooks because rooks are overpowered, like the falcon and blackbird.

Jams are automatic victory in small gang pvp.

EDIT: For those who are not aware, formal logic dictates that if I can provide one counterexample I can disprove a statement. I have just disproven the theory ECM is overpowered.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-07-27 06:59:01 UTC
No you haven't and the fact you think you have means you suck at logic. It's besides the point though. The main problem with ECM is the mechanic itself. It is a bad mechanic to have no matter how good or bad it is in the current game balance. If you fix it to something less random and less frustrating to the victim, it can still be a powerful e-war mechanic.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-07-27 07:03:10 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
No you haven't and the fact you think you have means you suck at logic. It's besides the point though. The main problem with ECM is the mechanic itself. It is a bad mechanic to have no matter how good or bad it is in the current game balance. If you fix it to something less random and less frustrating to the victim, it can still be a powerful e-war mechanic.


Who cares about the victim in pvp?
Abyss Azizora
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-07-27 07:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Abyss Azizora
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
No you haven't and the fact you think you have means you suck at logic. It's besides the point though. The main problem with ECM is the mechanic itself. It is a bad mechanic to have no matter how good or bad it is in the current game balance. If you fix it to something less random and less frustrating to the victim, it can still be a powerful e-war mechanic.


Who cares about the victim in pvp?


The victim does obviously.

But yeah, ECM never should have been in the game in the first place, every other module in the game can be countered by either another module or with player skill, ECM has no such counter. (And don't say ECCM, even with two fit you can still be 100% disabled against a dedicated ecm ship.)

It's annoying to get tracking disrupted or sensor damped, it's "THE END" if you get ECM'd permanently.

Either way, it's pointless to argue against ECM, CCP doesn't give a rats ass about it. Never has, never will. Just be glad falcons arn't on the same level as god anymore.
Ckra Trald
Ckra Trald Corporation
#5 - 2013-07-27 07:44:36 UTC
ecm eachother in a circle, essentially doing nothing for 20 minutes

http://www.rusemen.com/ Join Tengoo xd
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2013-07-27 07:47:17 UTC
So you are supposed to have FAIR fights in eve?
Explain to me this logic.

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#7 - 2013-07-27 09:26:32 UTC
RAWR EWAR!!

Push them off field ^_^

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Sulliva Slake
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-27 09:42:11 UTC
Abyss Azizora wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
No you haven't and the fact you think you have means you suck at logic. It's besides the point though. The main problem with ECM is the mechanic itself. It is a bad mechanic to have no matter how good or bad it is in the current game balance. If you fix it to something less random and less frustrating to the victim, it can still be a powerful e-war mechanic.


Who cares about the victim in pvp?


The victim does obviously.

But yeah, ECM never should have been in the game in the first place, every other module in the game can be countered by either another module or with player skill, ECM has no such counter. (And don't say ECCM, even with two fit you can still be 100% disabled against a dedicated ecm ship.)

It's annoying to get tracking disrupted or sensor damped, it's "THE END" if you get ECM'd permanently.

Either way, it's pointless to argue against ECM, CCP doesn't give a rats ass about it. Never has, never will. Just be glad falcons arn't on the same level as god anymore.


The counter to ECM is ECM..

A flight of (tech 1) ECM drones will nullify a blackbird (5 ECM drones x 5 strength = 25) and a blackbird only has a sensor strength of 22. Blackbird might as well just warp off at that point.. And thats just using the light drones.. Medium drones have a strength of 7.5 so with those you could almost relibly jam 2 bb's..

Not to mention how squishy they are..
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-07-27 10:52:37 UTC
Sulliva Slake wrote:
Abyss Azizora wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
No you haven't and the fact you think you have means you suck at logic. It's besides the point though. The main problem with ECM is the mechanic itself. It is a bad mechanic to have no matter how good or bad it is in the current game balance. If you fix it to something less random and less frustrating to the victim, it can still be a powerful e-war mechanic.


Who cares about the victim in pvp?


The victim does obviously.

But yeah, ECM never should have been in the game in the first place, every other module in the game can be countered by either another module or with player skill, ECM has no such counter. (And don't say ECCM, even with two fit you can still be 100% disabled against a dedicated ecm ship.)

It's annoying to get tracking disrupted or sensor damped, it's "THE END" if you get ECM'd permanently.

Either way, it's pointless to argue against ECM, CCP doesn't give a rats ass about it. Never has, never will. Just be glad falcons arn't on the same level as god anymore.


The counter to ECM is ECM..

A flight of (tech 1) ECM drones will nullify a blackbird (5 ECM drones x 5 strength = 25) and a blackbird only has a sensor strength of 22. Blackbird might as well just warp off at that point.. And thats just using the light drones.. Medium drones have a strength of 7.5 so with those you could almost relibly jam 2 bb's..

Not to mention how squishy they are..


You obviously have no clue how ECM drones work. Light drones jam with a strength of 1, mediums 1.5 and heavies jam with a strength of 2. What youre clearly misguided by is the drones own sensor strength, as in, the drones own resilience to being jammed.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#10 - 2013-07-27 11:40:20 UTC
Abyss Azizora wrote:
But yeah, ECM never should have been in the game in the first place, every other module in the game can be countered by either another module or with player skill, ECM has no such counter. (And don't say ECCM, even with two fit you can still be 100% disabled against a dedicated ecm ship.).


Damp them?
Remote ECCM?
Snipe them?
FoF missiles?
Rush them with tackle to make them bounce off field?

Eve Uni used tons of blackbirds when I was there and they still almost always lost so ECM is not a win button.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-07-27 11:40:24 UTC
No counter to ECM??

I had a Navy Domi once. Fit it with dual ECCM. Had a corpmate try to jam me in a Falcon. He might have got one jam every five cycles, and that's being generous.

Drones. Drones set to aggressive will attack whatever is aggroing you, whether you can lock them or not.

Auto-targeting missiles. Think they're useless? Think again. Getting permadamped by Serpentis in The Blockade is no different from getting perma-ECM'd because either way, you can't get a target lock. With AT missiles, that doesn't matter, in much the same way as drones.

ECM itself is also a counter, as are ECM drones. Most ships will ECM you from range, so prop mods can be effective in small gang.

As both a victim and survivor of ECM attacks, I can tell you now, sometimes there's no way out of it, too bad so sad. The same could be said for ANY module or ship in the game under the right circumstances. Time to start learning how to mitigate those circumstances. Use your imagination.

That brings me to what I think the real problem is with ECM, though. It's people who have little to no imagination and want CCP to hold their hand for them instead of using the tools they've already provided.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-27 11:44:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.

Lol do you honestly not get such a simple concept?

I've already made a thread about this Here

If you want CCP to do something about it, start complaining ^
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-07-27 11:52:55 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.

Lol do you honestly not get such a simple concept?

I've already made a thread about this Here

If you want CCP to do something about it, start complaining ^


Someone really needs to establish a law about people who call people sheep. What is it, exactly, that makes me a sheep?

For the record, I don't really care either way if CCP does or doesn't do anything about ECM. But then again, I know how to deal with it, because I have an imagination and actually learned something from it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#14 - 2013-07-27 11:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Diesel47 wrote:
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.

Lol do you honestly not get such a simple concept?

I've already made a thread about this Here

If you want CCP to do something about it, start complaining ^


It's not broken, you just don't like it.

It's misleading to say that it makes a ship usless. Over the course of an engagement you will have % of cycles that land which is effectively a reduction in DPS. 50% chance of jam on a 200dps ship = 0.5*200 = 100 effective DPS, so not different from any other ewar, the binary effect just makes it APPEAR more annoying. In a fleet some ships like logi may get all the jams on them, but then that's why you are in a fleet, use your fleetmates to help you counter the jams on you.

If you get permajammed by a falcon well tough, it's a ship made purely for that purpose, a cookie cutter frigate has no chance against a destroyer if they aren't prepared for it, maybe should just avoid it.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-07-27 11:57:37 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.

Lol do you honestly not get such a simple concept?

I've already made a thread about this Here

If you want CCP to do something about it, start complaining ^


Someone really needs to establish a law about people who call people sheep. What is it, exactly, that makes me a sheep?

For the record, I don't really care either way if CCP does or doesn't do anything about ECM. But then again, I know how to deal with it, because I have an imagination and actually learned something from it.


A sheep is somebody that is blind to what happens around them and still does their own thing regardless.

A player says he does not like the MECHANICs of ECM and you respond by telling them. "ECM has alot of counters, you are just unimaginative"

If you don't see that as a problem you are beyond help.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-07-27 11:58:36 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.

Lol do you honestly not get such a simple concept?

I've already made a thread about this Here

If you want CCP to do something about it, start complaining ^


It's not broken, you just don't like it.

It's misleading to say that it makes a ship usless. Over the course of an engagement you will have % of cycles that land which is effectively a reduction in DPS. 50% chance of jam on a 200dps ship = 0.5*200 = 100 effective DPS, so not different from any other ewar, the binary effect just makes it APPEAR more annoying. In a fleet some ships like logi may get all the jams on them, but then that's why you are in a fleet, use your fleetmates to help you counter the jams on you.

If you get permajammed by a falcon well tough, it's a ship made purely for that purpose, a cookie cutter frigate has no chance against a destroyer if they aren't prepared for it, maybe should just avoid it.


This a thousand times. All these ECM and Falcon whine threads are virtually the same thing as someone coming on here and complaining that all destroyers should be removed from the game because they can't beat 'em in a Slasher.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-07-27 12:00:54 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.

Lol do you honestly not get such a simple concept?

I've already made a thread about this Here

If you want CCP to do something about it, start complaining ^


It's not broken, you just don't like it.

It's misleading to say that it makes a ship usless. Over the course of an engagement you will have % of cycles that land which is effectively a reduction in DPS. 50% chance of jam on a 200dps ship = 0.5*200 = 100 effective DPS, so not different from any other ewar, the binary effect just makes it APPEAR more annoying. In a fleet some ships like logi may get all the jams on them, but then that's why you are in a fleet, use your fleetmates to help you counter the jams on you.

If you get permajammed by a falcon well tough, it's a ship made purely for that purpose, a cookie cutter frigate has no chance against a destroyer if they aren't prepared for it, maybe should just avoid it.


In a small gang fight you get jammed and your 500 DPS ship becomes a 0 DPS and 0 targeted module ship for 20 seconds. Then you die. Because somebody got lucky with a percent chance.

But honestly, just go to my thread if you want to argue. I'm not going to anti-ecm over the entire forums.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-07-27 12:01:03 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.

Lol do you honestly not get such a simple concept?

I've already made a thread about this Here

If you want CCP to do something about it, start complaining ^


Someone really needs to establish a law about people who call people sheep. What is it, exactly, that makes me a sheep?

For the record, I don't really care either way if CCP does or doesn't do anything about ECM. But then again, I know how to deal with it, because I have an imagination and actually learned something from it.


A sheep is somebody that is blind to what happens around them and still does their own thing regardless.

A player says he does not like the MECHANICs of ECM and you respond by telling them. "ECM has alot of counters, you are just unimaginative"

If you don't see that as a problem you are beyond help.


No, a sheep is a farm animal. Go back to school.

If a player wants to make a whine thread because he or she doesn't like something about the game without offering any constructive criticism, then what do they expect? Anyway, what was actually said was, "the mechanics of ECM are bad," not, "I don't like the mechanics", and then someone claimed there was no counter. I was responding to that. Clearly, you're not paying attention to what's happening around you and doing your own thing regardless.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#19 - 2013-07-27 12:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Diesel47 wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Nobody is asking for how to counter ECM.

They are saying it is a bad mechanic, yet you sheep keep posting how to counter ECM, and call people bad.

Lol do you honestly not get such a simple concept?

I've already made a thread about this Here

If you want CCP to do something about it, start complaining ^


It's not broken, you just don't like it.

It's misleading to say that it makes a ship usless. Over the course of an engagement you will have % of cycles that land which is effectively a reduction in DPS. 50% chance of jam on a 200dps ship = 0.5*200 = 100 effective DPS, so not different from any other ewar, the binary effect just makes it APPEAR more annoying. In a fleet some ships like logi may get all the jams on them, but then that's why you are in a fleet, use your fleetmates to help you counter the jams on you.

If you get permajammed by a falcon well tough, it's a ship made purely for that purpose, a cookie cutter frigate has no chance against a destroyer if they aren't prepared for it, maybe should just avoid it.


In a small gang fight you get jammed and your 500 DPS ship becomes a 0 DPS and 0 targeted module ship for 20 seconds. Then you die. Because somebody got lucky with a percent chance.

But honestly, just go to my thread if you want to argue. I'm not going to anti-ecm over the entire forums.


Well that's OK because the other members of your gang are there. If you want individual contribution to matter, go solo. That ECM pilot sounds like he's wasting his jams on the primary anyway.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-07-27 12:03:52 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

No, a sheep is a farm animal. Go back to school.

If a player wants to make a whine thread because he or she doesn't like something about the game without offering any constructive criticism, then what do they expect? Anyway, what was actually said was, "the mechanics of ECM are bad," not, "I don't like the mechanics", and then someone claimed there was no counter. I was responding to that. Clearly, you're not paying attention to what's happening around you and doing your own thing regardless.


Oh thats cute, you just repeat what you've heard.

Whats new, sheep.
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