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Please don't get mad if ship skins are on the NeX store

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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#221 - 2011-11-10 10:42:46 UTC
NeX store is bleh.
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2011-11-10 10:48:48 UTC
I won't be angry. Provided said skins are:

a) permanent (like the apparel seems to be)

b) didn't make monocles look cheap

c) didn't make me question if it was "Bring Your Kid to Work" Day
Lexmana
#223 - 2011-11-10 10:51:59 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Lexmana wrote:

And, your analysis is based on a critical assumption that NeX will only be used to push a small amount of vanity Items into the EVE sandbox. Can we really trust CCP to put such constraints on their actions now that they have deployed the infrastructure to do so much more?

So far so good, right? Lol


Slippery slope ...
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#224 - 2011-11-10 11:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Dyner wrote:
I won't be angry. Provided said skins are:

a) permanent (like the apparel seems to be)



Here we have it ladies and gentlemen. Why (some) people want ship skins through the NeX store is that basically they don't like the idea their $ bought stuff can be blown up.

(And pro-Nex quislings wonder why the rest of us believe NeX is not Eve.)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2011-11-10 11:10:16 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Dyner wrote:
I won't be angry. Provided said skins are:

a) permanent (like the apparel seems to be)



Here we have it ladies and gentlemen. Why (some) people want ship skins through the NeX store is that basically they don't like the idea their $ bought stuff can be blown up.




Eh, it goes back to "b". If it's cheap 1k - 2k then I don't mind if it's destructible. If it's say valued at $1000 (lolpantsjoke) then no, it should not be destructible.

On the positive it forces CCP to come up with new skins instead of making us 4 skins and sitting back raking in the cash.

Think about it. Would CCP continue to develop content (in any form) for EVE if they knew all the current subs would keep paying. Forego the fact they of course want to GET new subs.

The answer is 'no', they would not. Why invest unnecessary funds into something if you know you'll get the same return.

I would also add. It'd be nice if they didn't add skins per say to to NEX but instead a skill book set (recipe books) that teach players how to make various dyes.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#226 - 2011-11-10 11:28:15 UTC
Dyner wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Dyner wrote:
I won't be angry. Provided said skins are:

a) permanent (like the apparel seems to be)



Here we have it ladies and gentlemen. Why (some) people want ship skins through the NeX store is that basically they don't like the idea their $ bought stuff can be blown up.




Eh, it goes back to "b". If it's cheap 1k - 2k then I don't mind if it's destructible. If it's say valued at $1000 (lolpantsjoke) then no, it should not be destructible.

On the positive it forces CCP to come up with new skins instead of making us 4 skins and sitting back raking in the cash.

Think about it. Would CCP continue to develop content (in any form) for EVE if they knew all the current subs would keep paying. Forego the fact they of course want to GET new subs.

The answer is 'no', they would not. Why invest unnecessary funds into something if you know you'll get the same return.

I would also add. It'd be nice if they didn't add skins per say to to NEX but instead a skill book set (recipe books) that teach players how to make various dyes.



So lets agree instead that NeX is bad, ship skins should come through traditional gameplay (like agent lp stores) and skins can range from dirt cheap to expensive (based on rarety on lp points) and be fully destructable just like rigs ?

You happy with that?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#227 - 2011-11-10 11:42:27 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
[quote=Dyner][quote=Jade Constantine][quote=Dyner]

You happy with that?


What?

I actually like the NEX, because the alternative(s) is (are):

a) Raise Sub fee
b) Raise Player population
c) both


a) should maintain EVE as "EVE"
b) would require the [further] dumbing down of EVE into more of a WoW In Space
c) more the latter (b) then nickel diming those players

---

And in the end I was just answering the OP about what would not make me angry if ship skins were put on the NEX.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#228 - 2011-11-10 11:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Dyner wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
[quote=Dyner][quote=Jade Constantine][quote=Dyner]

You happy with that?


What?

I actually like the NEX, because the alternative(s) is (are):

a) Raise Sub fee
b) Raise Player population
c) both



You have forgotten "alternative" option D.

d) stop wasting subs money that is completely sufficient to run and develop eve plus 1 other major project on 2 other projects. (By scaling down WOD CCP have saved more money than NeX would ever raise for this game).

protip ... CCP have chosen option D.

But the broader point is that NeX does NOTHING whatsoever to increase revenue over and above PLEX sales. If Eve has attractive expensive player manufactured content that people want and need isk to buy then some will get that isk by buying and coverting PLEX and this will increase revenue for CCP without taking players out of the loop in player industry.

Hence PLEX is a good way for CCP to raise more money.

NEX is a bad way.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2011-11-10 12:08:45 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

You have forgotten "alternative" option D.

d) stop wasting subs money that is completely sufficient to run and develop eve plus 1 other major project on 2 other projects. (By scaling down WOD CCP have saved more money than NeX would ever raise for this game).

protip ... CCP have chosen option D.

But the broader point is that NeX does NOTHING whatsoever to increase revenue over and above PLEX sales. If Eve has attractive expensive player manufactured content that people want and need isk to buy then some will get that isk by buying and coverting PLEX and this will increase revenue for CCP without taking players out of the loop in player industry.

Hence PLEX is a good way for CCP to raise more money.

NEX is a bad way.



I think the NEX's primary goal was to eat PLEXs, thus causing an rise in the amount purchased (to be sold in game).

If I had a choice it'd be between NEX and LP Store for ship skins....for the love of god don't code drops..missions...fix the ones already in place xD
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2011-11-10 12:11:42 UTC
Does OP understand that almost nobody cared at all if ship skins were sold in NeX, that wasn't the point then and it isn't now.

Most of the people the OP seems to be addressing were all in favour of ship skins.

Ohhhhhh

OP is RvB.
Well...

ok.... pat head.... well done OP.

ATX: The best of the rest.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2011-11-10 12:13:30 UTC
Just popping in to agree with Jade and express my disgust towards NeX.
I could say more but I'd just be saying the same things Jade's already said.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2011-11-10 12:50:25 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:

NeX is to:
-Earn more cash for CCP. Cash which they spend on EVE.
-Act as a PLEX sink

PLEX already fills this role.

Of course PLEX fills the roll of being a PLEX sink.
NeX makes it faster. What if the only ISK sink in the entire game was an NPC corp tax at 1%? Not fast enough.
NeX is a PLEX sink. It doesn't matter if other things are: the more, the merrier right now.

Quote:

1. PLEX sink
Any expensive (ingame isk) desirable content does this. If Ship skins came from the LP store and required 100,000 lps per skin they would sell like hotcakes still. People would trade plex to afford the market prices.

2. Clothing store
Lazy programming, poor in-game rationale, angers the player base because options that were previously included in the old character generator are no longer there and have been replaced with MT bought stuff.This stuff should be either in the character generator or on the market manufactured and sold by PLAYERS for PLAYERS.

3. Contain vanity items only
Vanity argument is void when you consider that other Vanity items (nebulas and engine trails, new turrets, new cynos, new effects are all essentially Vanity.) And when we get to the point of corp logos being considered "vanity" I will sigh - since many people realize advertising and promoting one's corp is serious business - hence why so many pay big isk for eon ads, alliance tourney promos and login mentions.

4. Safely and quickly introduce content which does not radically affect EVE
The notion its possible to introduce indestructable customization into this economic sandbox without radically affecting the game is nonsense. Short circuiting player industry is a huge effect and has already caused massive player discontent.

1. NeX has a direct impact on PLEX prices, due to the inherent link between the two. Anything could act as a PLEX sink, but some things work better than others. The link is direct, as the only way to access NeX goods is through PLEX. The NeX store is the framework to a highly effective PLEX sink. You're even saying that in order for ship skins to be effective as a PLEX sink they need to be ludicrously pricey, in order to prompt players to buy PLEX. No thank you.

2. What items in the old character generator now need to be bought in the NeX store? Enlighten me. Don't tell me you want to roll back to the disgusting, cartoonish, old character portraits. It's just nostalgia talking. Won't putting the clothing directly on the character generator harm EVE, by your logic? I mean, players aren't earning from it! My sandbox! This is outrageous! New players should be naked ASAP.

3. You miss my point. I was stating a rule, not a benefit of the NeX store.

4. Player industry is not affected, stop saying it is. I haven't even said that ship skins should be indestructible, either. Is player industry negatively affected by CCP not having ship skins in the LP store right now? Is the price of Rifters suddenly a bil a piece because of this? All across EVE, are players suddenly realising they're playing a game whenever they see an item of clothing? Noticed a sudden swing of market prices for tritanium since the NeX store? Are we suffering because CCP don't make nebulae player-creatable?
Your discontentment at however ship skins may be introduced is not the entire playerbase's discontentment.


More to come! Stay tuned!
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#233 - 2011-11-10 13:11:47 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:

Of course PLEX fills the roll of being a PLEX sink.
NeX makes it faster. What if the only ISK sink in the entire game was an NPC corp tax at 1%? Not fast enough.
NeX is a PLEX sink. It doesn't matter if other things are: the more, the merrier right now.

1. NeX has a direct impact on PLEX prices, due to the inherent link between the two. Anything could act as a PLEX sink, but some things work better than others. The link is direct, as the only way to access NeX goods is through PLEX. The NeX store is the framework to a highly effective PLEX sink. You're even saying that in order for ship skins to be effective as a PLEX sink they need to be ludicrously pricey, in order to prompt players to buy PLEX. No thank you.


NeX actually makes it slower because the player base (as a whole) is fairly disgusted by the concept. I know players who would have spent literally billions of isk on clothing had it been produced by players for players rather than in the NeX store. Instead they spent nothing (or spent the free aurom) hence had the clothing NOT been in the Nex store it would have been a more efficient ISK sink. (and of course having the stuff being actually destructable the more so).

And this is why you do put people's noses out of joint really. Now you are saying that you'd rather have cheap Aurum skins than expensive destructable player manufactured ones. Its a straw man argument. Nobody is saying the player manufactured (lp traded) skins have to all be stupidly expensive. But if they came from NeX they certainly would be. (and likely indestructable too).

Quote:
2. What items in the old character generator now need to be bought in the NeX store? Enlighten me. Don't tell me you want to roll back to the disgusting, cartoonish, old character portraits. It's just nostalgia talking. Won't putting the clothing directly on the character generator harm EVE, by your logic? I mean, players aren't earning from it! My sandbox! This is outrageous! New players should be naked ASAP.


Nothing needs to be brought into the NeX store because the NeX store needs to be scrapped. But many racial specific actual scifi look designs for clothing do need to go back into the character generator and be available for players to manufacture in game for sale to other players. And no, putting clothing into the character generator will simply make eve a more attractive game to subscribers allowing a better level of customization and thereby retaining more subs money.

Quote:
4. Player industry is not affected, stop saying it is. I haven't even said that ship skins should be indestructible, either. Is player industry negatively affected by CCP not having ship skins in the LP store right now? Is the price of Rifters suddenly a bil a piece because of this? All across EVE, are players suddenly realising they're playing a game whenever they see an item of clothing? Noticed a sudden swing of market prices for tritanium since the NeX store? Are we suffering because CCP don't make nebulae player-creatable? Your discontentment at however ship skins may be introduced is not the entire playerbase's discontentment.


Whereas of the two of us I can point at a mass unsub movement that CCP took notice of and you cannot. Do you think CCP will lose a signifcant number of subs if NeX store is removed? Will there be people shooting a statue in Jita over it? I think not. NeX is an unpopular concept because it is heavily perceived as CCP undervaluing their subscription and ring-fencing content off from the sandbox that is delivered by the cash shop rather than player industry.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#234 - 2011-11-10 13:37:26 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
DarkAegix wrote:

I'm fine with CCP wanting to make money. If they sink enough PLEX to double their income from it, and spend this cash on EVE, then everything's golden as far as I'm concerned.


Pass me a hit of whatever you are smoking.
Do you really think that the Eve subscriber base is suddenly going to buy enough Aurum to double CCP's income via NeX if Ship Skins are sold through the cash shop?

Last time they lost 20%.

CCP Zinfandel is that you?

Quote:
How exciting is the gameplay content of buying from an LP store, anyway?
SERIOUSLY.


Considerably better than NeX store.

Players do missions for specific factions/corporations - those factions/corporations offer rewards in custom skins. Want an epic blood-raider skin ? Go and mission in delve or buy it off somebody who has.

I suspect the answer will be ... "wahhhhhhhh but won't that make it expensive I want it all cheap and now!"

Welcome to Eve.

Where prestigious things are meant to be hard to get.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2011-11-10 13:42:32 UTC
Zowie Powers wrote:
Does OP understand that almost nobody cared at all if ship skins were sold in NeX, that wasn't the point then and it isn't now.

Most of the people the OP seems to be addressing were all in favour of ship skins.

Ohhhhhh

OP is RvB.
Well...

ok.... pat head.... well done OP.

The entire thread is about NeX. Shocked
I will now commence flaming. Sorry if it isn't high quality enough.

1. I've never even heard of your corp
2. Zowie Powers sounds like it should rhyme, but it doesn't. Zowwy Powers, as the brain expects it should be pronounced, sounds stupid. (Pleasedon'tjudgemynamepleasedon'tjudgemyname)
3. At the time of this post I have 39.7x more likes than you. Therefore, I am better at everything.
4. You have no kills. I, however, have :elite: kills where myself and a fleet blobbed TCUs and other dangerous foes in my 0.0 PVPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP days.
5. Your bio is not interesting.
6. Your corp ticker is [6LORY]. 1337speak is not cool.
7. My character is older than yours, and so I have :bittervet: status over you. Any point you make I will ignore, because I can.
8. Your avatar has a lazy eye
9. Your avatar's background looks like the gas cloud to a comical bout of flatulence.
10. I can't think of something else

Also, have a free like.

I'll poast some more in a about a day. I have a life outside of forum PVP, you know!
i5L4NDOF5T4BiLiTY
sHaKeDoWn..
#236 - 2011-11-10 13:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: i5L4NDOF5T4BiLiTY
"How exciting is the gameplay content of buying from an LP store, anyway?
SERIOUSLY."
You dont understand the sandbox do you.
Someone would have to farm the LP for the new skins, then they would have to move those ships to jita for sale, then they would play market games against other traders.
It would be another opportunity for people to be industrious in eve online, it would even have elements of risk vs reward.
Slapping them in the Nex store is in everyway a erosion of the sandbox.
Why do you want to dumb down EVE online?
Why do you want less opportunities for trade?
Why do you want any part of the game, to be outside of the sandbox?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#237 - 2011-11-10 13:59:08 UTC
i5L4NDOF5T4BiLiTY wrote:
"How exciting is the gameplay content of buying from an LP store, anyway?
SERIOUSLY."
You dont understand the sandbox do you.
Someone would have to farm the LP for the new skins, then they would have to move those ships to jita for sale, then they would play market games against other traders.
It would be another opportunity for people to be industrious in eve online, it would even have elements of risk vs reward.
Slapping them in the Nex store is in everyway a erosion of the sandbox.
Why do you want to dumb down EVE online?
Why do you want less opertuinities for trade?
Why do you want any part of the game, to be outside the sandbox?



Its because he's a NeX Quisling Cool

Defined as a collaborator with a foreign power (in this case CCP Monocle's identikit MT empire) who believes in working with enemy to undermine the basis of Eve's historical culture (subscriptions and inclusive pro-sandbox content)

NeX Quislings love to talk about the surrender of Eve's virtue to PLEX and natural evolution to giving NeX handjobs to Aurum addicts on the bad side of town.

NeX Quislings also like instant content NOW RIGHT NOW! that they don't have to work for or interact with other PLAYERS with in any way shape or form.

NeX Quislings are pretty much single player gamers who don't like the sandbox aspect of Eve and are affronted that genuinely rare and prestigious content in Eve takes effort and negotiation to achieve and always involves interaction with other gamers.

CCP Zinfandel (aka CCP Monocle) is the patron saint of Eve's NeX Quisling movement and his followers wear neo-fascist NeXCarna clothing with monocles when they are out marching and calling for a fullscale PTW invasion of Eve Online by their MT paymasters elsewhere in the gaming world.






















































































(--some of these points might be slightly tongue in cheek)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#238 - 2011-11-10 14:42:21 UTC
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic, thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#239 - 2011-11-10 14:46:27 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic, thank you.

Eh… you removed quit a few on-topic posts as well… Straight
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#240 - 2011-11-10 14:47:00 UTC
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
I think I'm going to have to start calling Ranger1 the poster boy for the NEX Store.



Let's take a look at what the NEX Store removes from EVE and where it could have made positive additions:
- Takes content and/or features that were previously slated to be delivered via traditional sandbox means and now sells them back to the players, also circumventing the player run economy in the process.
- Deminishes additional things for the player manufacturing industrialists to do.
- Removes any additional materiels that could be another stream of prospecting/PI gamplay.
- Can't destroy them (when even PLEX can be destroyed, go figure)
- Not allowing players to earn additional visual rewards via the LP system.
- Giving those items meaning in the context of the game:
. . . - Whoah look at that headpiece/jacket/special ship skin, logo, etc that guy has, that's a big effort to earn those items. I want to continue to play the game so I can earn them too. Real visual status symbols.
. . . . . - Faction warfare clothes/skins/logos for earning a certain number of kills or a myriad of other things.
. . . . . - Pirate clothes/skins/logos for destroying so many ISK's value of ships.
. . . . . - Master Industrialist, special outfit so all and sundry know that you are.
. . . . . - Voted biggest a-hole in EVE by your peers, wear the badge you now get with honour.
. . . . . - Found a bunch of wormholes, get clothing/skins/logos to show you have.
- ..... There are literally endless possibilites for interesting uses of what ended up in the NEX Store.

Ultimately the NEX Store has short changed the playerbase with it's inclusion.


What does the NEX Store really add to EVE:
- A one off shiny.
- ................. Okay I'm at a loss, I can't think of anything else.


It seems Ranger1 and some others believe the NEX Store is full of win ..... for who!!


Tell me, when you see one of the rare ships that was earned in EVE (like a tournament one), what do you think .... I bet it isn't 'oh look they bought a different ship in the cash shop'. No because they actually mean something.



So I'll have to ask Ranger1 why he's trying to peddle something that works against the player run economy in EVE and adds nothing to the sandbox or even any gameplay in general for that matter. Just wondering.


Perhaps you should actually read the posts that have been made that disprove every point you have made, repeatedly. Blink

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