These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

PvP-like NPC fights / PvE as a PvP Primer
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Angelo Schilling
Knights of the Protectorate
#1 - 2013-07-26 15:23:24 UTC
I've been reading a lot of the suggestion threads about PvE fit vs PvP fit balancing.

Here's my suggestion:

Make NPCs fight like real player PvPers do-
Web + Scram, etc...

You don't even have to make all the NPCs do it. Just make ONE pirate faction do it as a test.
Have all the missions for them give you solo-pv(e/p) opportunites.

Example Level 1 Mission layout:
-1 sansha frigate
-Uses MWD to close distance
-Orbits at 5km
-Webs but DOESN'T scram

Example Level 2 Mission Layout A:
-1 sansha desty
-Kites with AB (so you can escape via speed)
-Scrams but DOESN'T web

Example Level 2 Mission Layout B:
-2 sansha frigates
-MWDs
-Scrams + Webs

Why?
Because new players need something to break into the comfort zone of fitting PvP modules and using / countering them without having to join a PvP corp and/or move to low/null.

This would also make it harder for PvPers to gank PvEers, since they'd have to worry about scrams... WHICH ALL-AROUND MEANS MORE PVP POTENTIAL, without *forcing* actual PvP upon people.
Takari
Promised Victorious Entropy
#2 - 2013-07-26 15:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Takari
I like this idea.

Maybe add a starter PvP mission arc where the rats will become more player like and handing out t1 pvp useful modules, skill books and ships?

*Edited to show that my reading comprehension skill improved in those few minutes.

"Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things. Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon

"Good luck, shoot straight and don't back down." - Serendipity Lost
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-07-26 15:54:46 UTC
This idea is just as stupid every time it comes up. It always begins with the same false premise: More people would PvP if somehow we could just force them to try it. People who want to PvP will. People who don't, won't.

Nothing is going to teach players to PvP except PvP, because NPCs have no metagame. Everything that PvE can teach people about PvP it already does (how to click "orbit" and press "F1"). Beyond that, it will never, ever teach anything that will help you understand how other players think, and how to kill them.

If you want new players to "learn the ropes" in PvP, tell them to join Red vs. Blue. Problem solved. Contrary to your apparent belief, new players who actually want to PvP are plenty smart enough to figure this out all on their own. They don't need any help from you, or from their friendly neighborhood mission agent, to grasp the basics.

PvE is not a training ground for PvP. It is an ISK faucet. People who DO PvP turn to PvE when they need to make ISK, not when they want to sharpen their skills or learn how to PvP to start with. Making the ISK faucet more of an annoying pain in the ass to turn for everyone does not do anything to encourage anyone to PvP more.

The only thing this would do is make a part of the game that is not PvP more annoying, and therefore less used. To the extent it annoys people enough who only play the game to run missions, it also will drive some players out of the game.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
DSpite Culhach
#4 - 2013-07-26 16:06:58 UTC
Freighdee Katt wrote:
This idea is just as stupid every time it comes up. It always begins with the same false premise: More people would PvP if somehow we could just force them to try it. People who want to PvP will. People who don't, won't.

Nothing is going to teach players to PvP except PvP, because NPCs have no metagame. Everything that PvE can teach people about PvP it already does (how to click "orbit" and press "F1"). Beyond that, it will never, ever teach anything that will help you understand how other players think, and how to kill them.

If you want new players to "learn the ropes" in PvP, tell them to join Red vs. Blue. Problem solved. Contrary to your apparent belief, new players who actually want to PvP are plenty smart enough to figure this out all on their own. They don't need any help from you, or from their friendly neighborhood mission agent, to grasp the basics.

PvE is not a training ground for PvP. It is an ISK faucet. People who DO PvP turn to PvE when they need to make ISK, not when they want to sharpen their skills or learn how to PvP to start with. Making the ISK faucet more of an annoying pain in the ass to turn for everyone does not do anything to encourage anyone to PvP more.

The only thing this would do is make a part of the game that is not PvP more annoying, and therefore less used. To the extent it annoys people enough who only play the game to run missions, it also will drive some players out of the game.


This, basically.

I am all for making missions more diverse and more challenging, if at the same time the rewards are better, bur pretending a script can think like a player will just teach players bad habits, and actually make life more dangerous for them.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Angelo Schilling
Knights of the Protectorate
#5 - 2013-07-27 01:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelo Schilling
Edited for a failed posting.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-07-27 01:51:31 UTC
Freighdee Katt wrote:
This idea is just as stupid every time it comes up. It always begins with the same false premise: More people would PvP if somehow we could just force them to try it. People who want to PvP will. People who don't, won't.

Nothing is going to teach players to PvP except PvP, because NPCs have no metagame. Everything that PvE can teach people about PvP it already does (how to click "orbit" and press "F1"). Beyond that, it will never, ever teach anything that will help you understand how other players think, and how to kill them.

If you want new players to "learn the ropes" in PvP, tell them to join Red vs. Blue. Problem solved. Contrary to your apparent belief, new players who actually want to PvP are plenty smart enough to figure this out all on their own. They don't need any help from you, or from their friendly neighborhood mission agent, to grasp the basics.

PvE is not a training ground for PvP. It is an ISK faucet. People who DO PvP turn to PvE when they need to make ISK, not when they want to sharpen their skills or learn how to PvP to start with. Making the ISK faucet more of an annoying pain in the ass to turn for everyone does not do anything to encourage anyone to PvP more.

The only thing this would do is make a part of the game that is not PvP more annoying, and therefore less used. To the extent it annoys people enough who only play the game to run missions, it also will drive some players out of the game.

thank you for saving me the typing effort.

I should buy an Ishtar.