These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

why ogb?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#41 - 2013-07-25 18:27:22 UTC
Condor with a simple MWD only - 3430 m/s unheated with a 198 m sig radius.
Condor with Snake Implants and MWD - 4278 m/s unheated with a 198 m sig radius ~ 2.8 billion isk at high risk.
Condor with Halo Implants and MWD - 3430 m/s with 157 m sig radius. ~ 1.1 billion isk at high risk.

Condor with a Loki booster with a Skirmish Mindlink implant and MWD - 4460 m/s and 128m sig radius - 500 million isk at very low risk. Why pick and choose between almost 4 billion isk in implants when you can get it all as well as a 43km overheated point to boot? Roll
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-07-25 18:34:48 UTC
If u see ur losing and align towards a warp out point. Mash warp so when ship blows up pod warps out. How high is the risk of losing ur implants then?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#43 - 2013-07-25 19:02:38 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
If u see ur losing and align towards a warp out point. Mash warp so when ship blows up pod warps out. How high is the risk of losing ur implants then?



Smart bombs, lag and client/server glitches can all lead to lost pods in low sec, even assuming pilot does everything right.

Doing everything right is not as easy as it sounds either. Lets say you do spam warp out to a gate. Lets say you correctly know that won't be able to dock right away due to aggro so you bounce and then "warp to 0" on a gate or station. Well did you know "warp to 0" doesn't actually mean "warp to 0"? "Warp to 0" might mean "warp to 3k away". Then you have to travel for a second or 2 before you jump or dock and can easilly lose a pod to an instalocker.

That said after you learn how not to lose your pod I think pirate implants can be worth it if you do allot of solo and very small gang pvp in low sec. They aren't worth it if you blob.

For me the main difference between implants and links is the fact that links require you to multibox an alt. For me that ruins all the immersion and changes eve from a game to a chore.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-07-25 19:13:37 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
If u see ur losing and align towards a warp out point. Mash warp so when ship blows up pod warps out. How high is the risk of losing ur implants then?



Smart bombs, lag and client/server glitches can all lead to lost pods in low sec, even assuming pilot does everything right.

Doing everything right is not as easy as it sounds either. Lets say you do spam warp out to a gate. Lets say you correctly know that won't be able to dock right away due to aggro so you bounce and then "warp to 0" on a gate or station. Well did you know "warp to 0" doesn't actually mean "warp to 0"? "Warp to 0" might mean "warp to 3k away". Then you have to travel for a second or 2 before you jump or dock and can easilly lose a pod to an instalocker.

That said after you learn how not to lose your pod I think pirate implants can be worth it if you do allot of solo and very small gang pvp in low sec. They aren't worth it if you blob.

For me the main difference between implants and links is the fact that links require you to multibox an alt. For me that ruins all the immersion and changes eve from a game to a chore.


Smartbombs and lag a problem in solo fw pvp where this ogb is at its worst?

Are client glitches prevailant?

I did know about the warp to 0 thing. That u want to test docking and put a bookmark whete u can actually instadock
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#45 - 2013-07-25 19:49:06 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
If u see ur losing and align towards a warp out point. Mash warp so when ship blows up pod warps out. How high is the risk of losing ur implants then?



Smart bombs, lag and client/server glitches can all lead to lost pods in low sec, even assuming pilot does everything right.

Doing everything right is not as easy as it sounds either. Lets say you do spam warp out to a gate. Lets say you correctly know that won't be able to dock right away due to aggro so you bounce and then "warp to 0" on a gate or station. Well did you know "warp to 0" doesn't actually mean "warp to 0"? "Warp to 0" might mean "warp to 3k away". Then you have to travel for a second or 2 before you jump or dock and can easilly lose a pod to an instalocker.

That said after you learn how not to lose your pod I think pirate implants can be worth it if you do allot of solo and very small gang pvp in low sec. They aren't worth it if you blob.

For me the main difference between implants and links is the fact that links require you to multibox an alt. For me that ruins all the immersion and changes eve from a game to a chore.


Smartbombs and lag a problem in solo fw pvp where this ogb is at its worst?

Are client glitches prevailant?

I did know about the warp to 0 thing. That u want to test docking and put a bookmark whete u can actually instadock



I have lost 3 pods clearly to client server glitches. I lost 1 pod that might have been from that or lag. I lost one pod due to my internet cutting out. I lost at least one pod to smartbomber. I lost pods due to warp to 0 not being warp to zero and my butt still hurts about that. P But only one was expensive.

The other 30 or so pods I lost due to piloting decisions/drunkenness/ignorrance. For example I wanted to keep a tight orbit and hope for the kill instead of spamming warp out. Another way is to get caught by a gate camp and decided to try to burn back to the gate and get blapped with the near gate highlighted and by the time I could highlight a distant gate and hit warp my pod is pointed.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-07-25 20:04:30 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
If u see ur losing and align towards a warp out point. Mash warp so when ship blows up pod warps out. How high is the risk of losing ur implants then?



Smart bombs, lag and client/server glitches can all lead to lost pods in low sec, even assuming pilot does everything right.

Doing everything right is not as easy as it sounds either. Lets say you do spam warp out to a gate. Lets say you correctly know that won't be able to dock right away due to aggro so you bounce and then "warp to 0" on a gate or station. Well did you know "warp to 0" doesn't actually mean "warp to 0"? "Warp to 0" might mean "warp to 3k away". Then you have to travel for a second or 2 before you jump or dock and can easilly lose a pod to an instalocker.

That said after you learn how not to lose your pod I think pirate implants can be worth it if you do allot of solo and very small gang pvp in low sec. They aren't worth it if you blob.

For me the main difference between implants and links is the fact that links require you to multibox an alt. For me that ruins all the immersion and changes eve from a game to a chore.


Smartbombs and lag a problem in solo fw pvp where this ogb is at its worst?

Are client glitches prevailant?

I did know about the warp to 0 thing. That u want to test docking and put a bookmark whete u can actually instadock



I have lost 3 pods clearly to client server glitches. I lost 1 pod that might have been from that or lag. I lost one pod due to my internet cutting out. I lost at least one pod to smartbomber. I lost pods due to warp to 0 not being warp to zero and my butt still hurts about that. P But only one was expensive.

The other 30 or so pods I lost due to piloting decisions/drunkenness/ignorrance. For example I wanted to keep a tight orbit and hope for the kill instead of spamming warp out. Another way is to get caught by a gate camp and decided to try to burn back to the gate and get blapped with the near gate highlighted and by the time I could highlight a distant gate and hit warp my pod is pointed.



Damn im gonna lose a lot of pods.

That internet one is scary. I lose socket at least once a day
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#47 - 2013-07-25 20:15:43 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
If u see ur losing and align towards a warp out point. Mash warp so when ship blows up pod warps out. How high is the risk of losing ur implants then?



Smart bombs, lag and client/server glitches can all lead to lost pods in low sec, even assuming pilot does everything right.

Doing everything right is not as easy as it sounds either. Lets say you do spam warp out to a gate. Lets say you correctly know that won't be able to dock right away due to aggro so you bounce and then "warp to 0" on a gate or station. Well did you know "warp to 0" doesn't actually mean "warp to 0"? "Warp to 0" might mean "warp to 3k away". Then you have to travel for a second or 2 before you jump or dock and can easilly lose a pod to an instalocker.

That said after you learn how not to lose your pod I think pirate implants can be worth it if you do allot of solo and very small gang pvp in low sec. They aren't worth it if you blob.

For me the main difference between implants and links is the fact that links require you to multibox an alt. For me that ruins all the immersion and changes eve from a game to a chore.


Smartbombs and lag a problem in solo fw pvp where this ogb is at its worst?

Are client glitches prevailant?

I did know about the warp to 0 thing. That u want to test docking and put a bookmark whete u can actually instadock



I have lost 3 pods clearly to client server glitches. I lost 1 pod that might have been from that or lag. I lost one pod due to my internet cutting out. I lost at least one pod to smartbomber. I lost pods due to warp to 0 not being warp to zero and my butt still hurts about that. P But only one was expensive.

The other 30 or so pods I lost due to piloting decisions/drunkenness/ignorrance. For example I wanted to keep a tight orbit and hope for the kill instead of spamming warp out. Another way is to get caught by a gate camp and decided to try to burn back to the gate and get blapped with the near gate highlighted and by the time I could highlight a distant gate and hit warp my pod is pointed.



Damn im gonna lose a lot of pods.

That internet one is scary. I lose socket at least once a day



The internet one causes many more scares than lost pods though.

Because your pod/ship warps off on disconnect unless you are pointed. They have to scan it down to kill it before your log off timer runs. But yeah anytime I lose internet or power with expensive implants and a pvp or pve timer going I get a bit nervous. The vast majority of times I when I get a connection back I am in my ship or my pod. I still think it was bad for ccp to have a log off timer connected with pve.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#48 - 2013-07-25 21:22:49 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:

I did know about the warp to 0 thing. That u want to test docking and put a bookmark whete u can actually instadock


Yeah I have instadocks at my base stations but others you have to be ready to spam warp to another celestial if you see a ship at the station. Same with gates. I guess you can set up insta-jump bookmarks but who has time for that?

Its just a hassle. CCP should just adjust the warp to zero to be accurate enough to put you in dock/jump range.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-07-25 22:23:04 UTC
Cearain wrote:

The internet one causes many more scares than lost pods though.

Because your pod/ship warps off on disconnect unless you are pointed. They have to scan it down to kill it before your log off timer runs. But yeah anytime I lose internet or power with expensive implants and a pvp or pve timer going I get a bit nervous. The vast majority of times I when I get a connection back I am in my ship or my pod. I still think it was bad for ccp to have a log off timer connected with pve.


thats fine for the PVE side of things. But battles in PVP are very short and your usually pointed. So if you get discoed do you sit right there for the minute it takes your opponent to kill you or do you bypass normal mechanics and warp out even when pointed? most people dont have probes from what i can tell so should be safe enough depending how this looks.

I just shudder at the thought of losing socket(whatever that means) during pvp
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-07-25 22:29:38 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
Ive read about off grid boosting. But theres a lot i dont know.

1) What ships do the boosting?

Generally, "command ships" and strategic cruisers. When you look at the "can fit ship group" section on this example gang link,, you see a bunch of "group id". 941 is the group that Orcas belong to. 419 are standard battlecruisers. Other groups include rorquals (883), carriers (547), command ships (540), strategic cruisers (963), super carriers (659) and titans (30). As another example, the description for Drakes mention that you may fit a single gang link module, while command ships let you run 3 at a time (more with extra command processors) and supers let you fit one per level of the ship skill. For the link to be effective, you must be the squad, wing or fleet booster in your fleet.

To illustrate, here are some sample fits from Battleclinic:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/57931-Vulture-T2-Gang-Link-Booster.html
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/42118-Orca-max-yield-Team-HULK-ORCA.html
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/16906-Fleet-Eos.html

Ciyrine wrote:
2) what modules are needed

here is a link of all the gang boosters
Ciyrine wrote:
3) what aspects of the ship are boosted? Ehp,dps,speed....or any stat u want...or all the stats the the target ship turns into superman?
Gang links with "armored" in the name boost armor stuff - depending on the module, better resists or better repairs. Links with "siege" in the name boost shield stuff. Take some time and check them out, there are a few.
Dilium
Screaming Hayabusa
#51 - 2013-07-26 09:05:19 UTC
Flying with links takes away the glory from all your kills.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2013-07-26 09:42:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
"you are the weakest link"

there's a good reason to not be upset (and just sit tight and watch the hilarity unfold). effectiveness of boosters are swinging from T3 to command ships, which means a few things. (it doesn't look good for T3 booster alts)

it's a new skill tree to train. consider the likelihood that T3 booster alts were made "odyssey ready" with the BC and Command Ship skill change. you can consider it low.

in the case of booster alts that were used in the subversive way discussed in this thread--as an ancillary fleet member, out of harm's way--which are likely a focused character with around 8m SP, all of that in the leadership spec, cybernetics V, and the T3 defense system skills... to be effective as a post-link-change T3 booster, it will require 2 additional leadership specializations minimum, or 85d... and that's just for the warfare bonus.

and not counting fitting and tank, which is important not only for most of the uses players baw about, but with poor engineering skills, a link ship will run itself out of cap with just its links and a prop running.

the only use I can think of, that exempts fitting and tank skills for boosters after the change, is high sec dueling. though it's feasible to support a tank-less booster in a gang that carries enough DPS to control their engagement... such as a gatecamp.

then you get to pick which links to run on a T3; resists, recon, evasive, and rapid deployment. ...so tank, speed, sig, ewar, and propulsion ewar. that means at least 1 command processor in mids. that's pretty bad for shield tanking, so effectiveness is further reduced for shield tanks (because shield tanking requires mids).

for the same booster to cross-train into command ships, it will require racial Battlecruiser V (23d), Command Ships V (35d+35d prereqs), and an additional warfare spec V (27d).

but wait, for players who absolutely must have the best boosts, that means 1 mindlinked command ship in 3 warfare categories. each of their 8m SP booster alts needs to jump 5m SP or 120d, but again that's not counting fitting and tank.

command ships don't get interdiction nullification, nor do you get to jam with it, or probe with it, or covert ops cloak it.....

wormhole roam implications include the covops cloak and ship mass limitations...

scenario 1: +85d training for a T3 booster, for a better-than-50% reduction in effectiveness and an abundance of booster alts.
scenario 2: +85d training for 3 T3 boosters, for a 50% reduction in effectiveness.
scenario 3: +120d training for T3 -> Command Ship booster for better-than-20% reduction in effectiveness and an abundance of booster alts.
scenario 4: +120d training for 3 T3 -> Command Ship boosters for 20% reduction in effectiveness.

I expect to see two things happen:

-a fire sale of "focused" (that's craigslist speak for incredibly imbalanced) T3 booster alts with severely reduced effectiveness after the Warfare Link change, and an increased demand for well-rounded command ship pilots (the jump in SP is 8m to 30m+)

-a lot of killmails of T3s fitted with warfare links and meta or deadspace tank (due to lack of skills), and podmails with a warfare mindlink. ...because players will attempt to bring their weak links into PVP.

if you've believed in command ships the whole time, however, it's a boon. especially if you've been flying one in pvp and pve. it's always looked attractive for its tank, so well-rounded command ship pilots are out there in the hands of mission runners and active PVPers.


i'm open to the possibility that I am wrong.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Raptors Mole
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-07-27 12:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Raptors Mole
You don't need a booster alt to solo PvP. Yes it gives advantages, but unless you are really anal about your killboard and being "Elite" its not worth everybody else laughing at you.

Simply remember the toons who use OGB and pretend they are solo, and avoid fighting them unless you are certain of a kill.

Since starting a FW frig alt I have learned you get far more fights in a T1 frig than you do in faction or T2. And although I suck at PvP, other people suck more so you do win fights. You will lose plenty to start with but you will hopefully learn what ships to engage and which ones to run from.

Remember. Eve is a game. You play games for fun.

Off Grid Boosting - Bleh, On grid Boosting Yay! You'd think CCP would "Get" that!
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2013-08-05 06:54:41 UTC
Raptors Mole wrote:
You don't need a booster alt to solo PvP.

yes you do.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#55 - 2013-08-05 07:39:37 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Raptors Mole wrote:
You don't need a booster alt to solo PvP.

yes you do.


Bollocks!

You can solo perfectly fine without booster alts.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Raptors Mole
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-08-05 10:16:36 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Raptors Mole wrote:
You don't need a booster alt to solo PvP.

yes you do.


I don't.

You do.

Easy eh!
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2013-08-05 17:48:08 UTC
considering the stats of an assault frig or T1 frig with full boosts... tank/info/skirmish... vs an unboosted one

and the possibility that everyone who says they do not use boosts... is in fact using boosts...

yes you do.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Raptors Mole
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-08-06 08:54:58 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
considering the stats of an assault frig or T1 frig with full boosts... tank/info/skirmish... vs an unboosted one

and the possibility that everyone who says they do not use boosts... is in fact using boosts...

yes you do.



What?

In my first reply I agree that boosts improve performance. I don't agree they are required. The players who can't win without them use them, and hence are ridiculed by those who don't.

I don't use boosts when soloing. I only have 1 Eve account.

So I am in fact, not using boosts.
Seraph Castillon
Death Metal Frogs
Ribbit.
#59 - 2013-08-06 09:54:43 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
4) why not just bring in the 2nd ship after uve hooked ur fish. There are people that dont engage ogb ships because they know what to look for in the performance of such a ship. Im not one of those. And it probably only applies to speed. But seems like if ur multi boxing accts. Fly a tackle frig and when it catches something bring in the bs.


And then 20 guys pounce on your battleship. People use OGB because:

1) It's a low risk practice. You only have one ship on the field and thus only one can die. You booster ship is either parked at a POS and thus entire safe (this is going to stop working in the next patch) or it is at a safe spot/sitting on the station. If it is at a safe spot it takes someone who's very skilled at scanning to catch it in time before the owner notices the probes.

2) The surprise/ambush factor is extremely important in them getting fights and securing victory. Say you are fighting in a FW plex in lowsec. You've baited someone into fighting you by sitting there solo. Now your alt or friend needs to warp to the plex, go inside and engage as well. By the time that has happened you enemy could have seen the second ship arrive on scan and disengaged from the fight or he simply could have killed you in a 1v1 before your alt/friend arrived on the field.

3) People think they are soloing when they are using boosts. They of course are not, but none the less it makes them feel superior to supposedly win 1 on 1 fights.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2013-08-07 04:37:06 UTC
at least once a day, my scout harpy is challenged to a duel by a merlin/harpy/rifter/wolf even when my command ship boosters are right there. lol. getting in their PVP while they can, it seems. (before the flip to links)

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)