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Remove the Aurum
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Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2013-07-25 19:03:14 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:

Same item from NEX store:
Bypass everything and is created on the market. From nowhere. No gameplay related to it.



Right. That's the WHOLE POINT.

It's specifically designed to exist entirely outside the system and have no impact on or involvement in the economy. If it became an economic commodity, then it is no longer just a vanity store.

Nothing bought with AUT will ever change what a player is capable of in gameplay terms, and that is how it should be and remain. This is the very essence of vanity systems. They are for aesthetics ONLY. Never more.
Marianne Pollard
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-07-25 19:07:21 UTC
Aurum tokens ensure that NEX items are a part of the player driven economy. Don't want red heels? Don't buy them.

Now, pipe down, or I'll have Plex removed from the game.

Wait, what? You don't want Plex removed because it allows you to pay for things?

*snigger*

Mocking the afflicted since 2013.
Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-07-25 19:12:35 UTC
Marianne Pollard wrote:
Aurum tokens ensure that NEX items are a part of the player driven economy. Don't want red heels? Don't buy them.

Now, pipe down, or I'll have Plex removed from the game.

Wait, what? You don't want Plex removed because it allows you to pay for things?

*snigger*


Actually I would like both removed from the game, removing Plex means a lot less multiboxing madness.

This is about Aurum though.
Spurty
#64 - 2013-07-25 19:14:00 UTC
Send me your arum.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#65 - 2013-07-25 19:17:58 UTC
I forgot this was even in the gameOops
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2013-07-25 19:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Verunae Caseti
Tristan Evernes wrote:

Actually I would like both removed from the game, removing Plex means a lot less multiboxing madness.


...and a lot less demand for products due to fewer pilots.
...and less dense population so less PvP.
...and significantly less revenue for CCP.
...so, less content and fewer expansions.
...ultimately, less lifespan for EVE.

But, totally worth it 'cause, like, multiboxers and stuff.
Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-07-25 19:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tristan Everness
So, your opinion is that real money is fine untill it impact gameplay.

Now, tell me that isk don't affect gameplay, let me lol at you :D

Stealth pay2win is fine since is stealth uh?

Money to CCP = Better EvE? Are you sure? What about Dust? What about WoD?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#68 - 2013-07-25 19:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Tristan Everness wrote:
So, your opinion is that real money is fine untill it impact gameplay.

Now, tell me that isk don't affect gameplay, let me lol at you :D

Stealth pay2win is fine since is stealth uh?

Money to CCP = Better EvE? Are you sure? What about Dust? What about WoD?

Well, to be honest, pay to win doesn't enter the picture in any way what so ever.

Pay to win is when an in game advantage can ONLY be purchased with cash, and cannot be obtained thru in game means. For example the way you used to only be able to pay for "Gold Ammo" in World of Tanks with real currency (before they came to their senses).

There is nothing in EVE (or that has been proposed for EVE) that fits that description.

Also EVE, DUST and WOD = CCP... and anything that benefits them in the long run benefits EVE.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#69 - 2013-07-25 19:49:00 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:

Same item from NEX store:
Bypass everything and is created on the market. From nowhere. No gameplay related to it.



Right. That's the WHOLE POINT.


Yes. But in that post I was answering to someone else stating that after all also gold ammo sold in the Nex store would be the same. I was saying that even if the ammo were identical to the ones bought with ISK was not the same, not at all.

Anything bypassying gameplay and player driven economy is against EVE core design and philosphy. This is why NEX store and AUR should be removed too, and their items moved as a new layer of industry gameplay.

Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-07-25 19:51:06 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tristan Everness wrote:
So, your opinion is that real money is fine untill it impact gameplay.

Now, tell me that isk don't affect gameplay, let me lol at you :D

Stealth pay2win is fine since is stealth uh?

Money to CCP = Better EvE? Are you sure? What about Dust? What about WoD?

Well, to be honest, pay to win doesn't enter the picture in any way what so ever.

Pay to win is when an in game advantage can ONLY be purchased with cash, and cannot be obtained thru in game means. For example the way you used to only be able to pay for "Gold Ammo" in World of Tanks with real currency (before they came to their senses).

There is nothing in EVE (or that has been proposed for EVE) that fits that description.


Wrong, pay2win is about have an advantage by paying with real money.
Well, Pay2BeAdvantaged if it makes you feel better :)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#71 - 2013-07-25 19:51:41 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:

Same item from NEX store:
Bypass everything and is created on the market. From nowhere. No gameplay related to it.



Right. That's the WHOLE POINT.


Yes. But in that post I was answering to someone else stating that after all also gold ammo sold in the Nex store would be the same. I was saying that even if the ammo were identical to the ones bought with ISK was not the same, not at all.

Anything bypassying gameplay and player driven economy is against EVE core design and philosphy. This is why NEX store and AUR should be removed too, and their items moved as a new layer of industry gameplay.


Misunderstanding what Pay to Win means aside, I agree it's always better to include these items in the EVE economy/industrial base.

It's fine for CCP to have an assortment of items they can make cash directly from, as long as they are integrated into EVE in a healthy way (Blue Prints, Designs, etc.).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#72 - 2013-07-25 19:52:42 UTC
Tristan Everness wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tristan Everness wrote:
So, your opinion is that real money is fine untill it impact gameplay.

Now, tell me that isk don't affect gameplay, let me lol at you :D

Stealth pay2win is fine since is stealth uh?

Money to CCP = Better EvE? Are you sure? What about Dust? What about WoD?

Well, to be honest, pay to win doesn't enter the picture in any way what so ever.

Pay to win is when an in game advantage can ONLY be purchased with cash, and cannot be obtained thru in game means. For example the way you used to only be able to pay for "Gold Ammo" in World of Tanks with real currency (before they came to their senses).

There is nothing in EVE (or that has been proposed for EVE) that fits that description.


Wrong, pay2win is about have an advantage by paying with real money.
Well, Pay2BeAdvantaged if it makes you feel better :)

If you pay real money for that advantage, and I can just as easily pay ISK for that same advantage, then it's not an advantage now is it. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-07-25 20:03:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tristan Everness
Ranger 1 wrote:

If you pay real money for that advantage, and I can just as easily pay ISK for that same advantage, then it's not an advantage now is it. Smile


How simple to brainwash players :O

Does isk affect gameplay? Yes.
Can you pay real money to have isk? Yes.
Is there a difference between payin and gain isk in game? Yes, it's time.

And if you accept that someone can have such an advantage, why not introducing Plex for skillpoints?
You can obtain skillpoint either you pay or not, isn't it the same?

By the way, sorry if it's not clear, English is not my native language.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#74 - 2013-07-25 20:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Tristan Everness wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

If you pay real money for that advantage, and I can just as easily pay ISK for that same advantage, then it's not an advantage now is it. Smile


How simple to brainwash players :O

Does isk affect gameplay? Yes.
Can you pay real money to have isk? Yes.
Is there a difference between payin and gain isk in game? Yes, it's time.

And if you accept that someone can have such an advantage, why not introducing Plex for skillpoints?
You can obtain skillpoint either you pay or not, isn't it the same?

By the way, sorry if it's not clear, English is not my native language.

LOL. Understanding the underlying mechanics being discussed does not equal brainwashing. Smile

I can easily pay for something with ISK that would break most peoples personal gaming budget... and the time invested is minimal. I have a very efficient income stream in game.

Feel free to purchase any in game advantage you like with cash, and I'll go grab the same thing with ISK.

By the way, you can already purchase skill points with PLEX. Implants purchased with PLEX, or more directly simply purchasing a highly skill character off of the bazaar. Of course, PLEX can be obtained with either ISK or cash.

Don't worry about the language thing, I understand you (and I'm certainly not trying to get hateful with you). No worries.

Consider this.

I have several accounts and can easily fund all of them with ISK in a trivial amount of time (around an hour or so effort a month).

I choose not to, primarily because I feel EVE is a game I'm willing to support directly with my money.

By your definition, because I pay for my game time with cash instead of spending time in game earning the ISK to do so, I am guilty of Pay to Win. Smile

Do you begin to see the flaws in your definition yet?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#75 - 2013-07-25 20:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
Tristan Everness wrote:

Does isk affect gameplay? Yes.
Can you pay real money to have isk? Yes.


Is not exactly the he same.

Under the current system you don't buy ISK for real money; you buy Plex that you can trade with another player for ISK.

However those ISK are not created from nowhere by the system. Are created by other player's gameplay and transfered to you. IMO This is still accettable, since does not inject isk or other goods in the system, only move them from a player to another.

Not saying this si good, only that is tollerable and doesn't corrupt the whole system as would be if you paid real money and ISK were created by the system from nowhere.As happens in almost any other MMORPG.
Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-07-25 20:29:05 UTC
Well, you're just trying to diminish the advantage that someone willing to spend money could have by using the Plex system.
That advantage is still there though, i'm glad that people can play without having to spend their money, but I still think it would be a better game without Plexes, Aurum and every macro-micro-transaction that affect the game.
Obunagawe
#77 - 2013-07-25 20:29:12 UTC
Tristan Everness wrote:

Actually I would like both removed from the game, removing Plex means a lot less multiboxing madness.


Tristan Everness wrote:

WAAAAAH, REMOVE PLEX SO I CAN WIN EVE WITH ALL MY FRIENDS WHO I DONT EVEN LIKE OR TALK TO
Tristan Everness
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-07-25 20:31:21 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:


Is not exactly the he same.

Under the current system you don't buy ISK for real money; you buy Plex that you can trade with another player for ISK.

However those ISK are not created from nowhere by the system. Are created by other player's gameplay and transfered to you. IMO This is still accettable, since does not inject isk or other goods in the system, only move them from a player to another.

Not saying this si good, only that is tollerable and doesn't corrupt the whole system as would be if you paid real money and ISK were created by the system from nowhere.As happens in almost any other MMORPG.


I agree with you, my main problem is with Aurum actually.