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Zombie Rigging

Author
Katia Echerie
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#21 - 2013-07-24 23:47:13 UTC
Honestly, your idea makes no sense. Rigs are like modifications to a ship that trades something for something else. Its not like you can just stick human body parts to a ship engine to make it work better. That said your idea isn't entirely without merit. It would be cool if you could salvage an implant or two from a clone, perhaps with a penalty at times (say a HG implant becomes a LG implant or a +5 becomes a +4 and so on).
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#22 - 2013-07-25 01:00:40 UTC
As improbable as this idea is, there's something I like about it. Might be due to having something to do with zombies.


Making a ship rig out of a corpse.... heh heh heh Twisted

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#23 - 2013-07-25 09:22:04 UTC
Katia Echerie wrote:
Honestly, your idea makes no sense. Rigs are like modifications to a ship that trades something for something else. Its not like you can just stick human body parts to a ship engine to make it work better. That said your idea isn't entirely without merit. It would be cool if you could salvage an implant or two from a clone, perhaps with a penalty at times (say a HG implant becomes a LG implant or a +5 becomes a +4 and so on).

And from what I'm reading, this trades a large amout of calibration that could be used on other, more important rigs for a pseudo capsule interface to link up with a corpse and utilize some knowledge from the other person's cold, dead brain in order to make your ship perform better... but again, only if you already had the skill in question injected. The only free ride here is the one where you skip training the skill up to V. And even then, that's only for the specific hull in question, so if you lose the ship in the future you'd better have the skill trained up or another corpse with the required skill/level.

I can't personally see myself using it unless I want to pretend to be a reaver, but I don't see any particular reason not to.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#24 - 2013-07-25 11:08:49 UTC
Let my skillqueue alone!!
Lakitel
4.20ly Mining Range
#25 - 2013-07-25 12:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lakitel
While there are lots of arguments both for and against, I'd like to ask: Isn't this kind of suggest too macabre for EvE online? I don't know how this would fit into the story of EvE.

I mean sure, there is a lot of stuff that involves modifying one's own body, and of course there's the whole slavery thing with the amarr/minmattar, but there's nothing in the game at the same level of strapping or some how assimilating a dead body into the ship, like cannibalism for example. Although i could be wrong about that last part.

My addition to your suggestion would be to that if its made as a riggable item, it would be considered an illegal good in High-sec space, that would be its disadvantage, for the sake of balancing.

But I think in this case, it would be more than reasonable to be able to "self-destruct" your body so that an enemy doesn't get it and while this might defeat the whole point of your suggestion, I think that logically speaking within the context of story and game, if you add the zombie mechanic you should also add the self-destruct mechanic.

Maybe give the self destruct a timer that you have to hack like the exploration mini-game, once you disable it then you can rig it, that way this system won't be abused. Kind of like a captcha for zombie rigging :P
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#26 - 2013-07-25 13:20:21 UTC
Lakitel wrote:
While there are lots of arguments both for and against, I'd like to ask: Isn't this kind of suggest too macabre for EvE online? I don't know how this would fit into the story of EvE.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119995&find=unread

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.

Lakitel
4.20ly Mining Range
#27 - 2013-07-25 13:25:33 UTC
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:
Lakitel wrote:
While there are lots of arguments both for and against, I'd like to ask: Isn't this kind of suggest too macabre for EvE online? I don't know how this would fit into the story of EvE.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119995&find=unread


Lmao, for one, most people on that post seem to agree its quite dark and not psychologically stable.

Plus, the flash-freezing doesn't have any background, it could just be a cryogenically stored body for use as a clone later.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#28 - 2013-07-25 13:41:49 UTC
Lakitel wrote:
While there are lots of arguments both for and against, I'd like to ask: Isn't this kind of suggest too macabre for EvE online? I don't know how this would fit into the story of EvE.

I mean sure, there is a lot of stuff that involves modifying one's own body, and of course there's the whole slavery thing with the amarr/minmattar, but there's nothing in the game at the same level of strapping or some how assimilating a dead body into the ship, like cannibalism for example. Although i could be wrong about that last part.

My addition to your suggestion would be to that if its made as a riggable item, it would be considered an illegal good in High-sec space, that would be its disadvantage, for the sake of balancing.

But I think in this case, it would be more than reasonable to be able to "self-destruct" your body so that an enemy doesn't get it and while this might defeat the whole point of your suggestion, I think that logically speaking within the context of story and game, if you add the zombie mechanic you should also add the self-destruct mechanic.

Maybe give the self destruct a timer that you have to hack like the exploration mini-game, once you disable it then you can rig it, that way this system won't be abused. Kind of like a captcha for zombie rigging :P

With a dead body no longer equating to a dead pilot, it is not more significant than a defective clone body.

It is definitely a point to consider, that the loot someone might take from your wreckage could include your past skills as well.

Every time we cut and paste our awareness into a new form, we leave behind a technologically enhanced mind.

If we can actually write our identities into these, why should it be unreasonable that we could also read what was written on the mind previously?

Now, hacking into the mind itself, to access the skills, THAT could be an interesting minigame idea too!
Lakitel
4.20ly Mining Range
#29 - 2013-07-25 14:00:35 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Lakitel wrote:
While there are lots of arguments both for and against, I'd like to ask: Isn't this kind of suggest too macabre for EvE online? I don't know how this would fit into the story of EvE.

I mean sure, there is a lot of stuff that involves modifying one's own body, and of course there's the whole slavery thing with the amarr/minmattar, but there's nothing in the game at the same level of strapping or some how assimilating a dead body into the ship, like cannibalism for example. Although i could be wrong about that last part.

My addition to your suggestion would be to that if its made as a riggable item, it would be considered an illegal good in High-sec space, that would be its disadvantage, for the sake of balancing.

But I think in this case, it would be more than reasonable to be able to "self-destruct" your body so that an enemy doesn't get it and while this might defeat the whole point of your suggestion, I think that logically speaking within the context of story and game, if you add the zombie mechanic you should also add the self-destruct mechanic.

Maybe give the self destruct a timer that you have to hack like the exploration mini-game, once you disable it then you can rig it, that way this system won't be abused. Kind of like a captcha for zombie rigging :P

With a dead body no longer equating to a dead pilot, it is not more significant than a defective clone body.

It is definitely a point to consider, that the loot someone might take from your wreckage could include your past skills as well.

Every time we cut and paste our awareness into a new form, we leave behind a technologically enhanced mind.

If we can actually write our identities into these, why should it be unreasonable that we could also read what was written on the mind previously?

Now, hacking into the mind itself, to access the skills, THAT could be an interesting minigame idea too!


Well, what you could argue that since implants are hardwired and destroyed when removed, the only way to access them without destroying them is to take out the brain and then connect it to a Brain-Computer interface and hack into it.

As for the skills, I don't know. I mean when you cut, you cut, there isn't anything left behind. I guess you could get past that by making it a percentage. So every time you have a corpse you want to hack, there is a chance that you can't recover anything from it, and those chances are skill based.

So for example adding a skill like this:

- Infomorph Transferance: Every level gives a 15% chance of successfully transferring Skill psychology. With a maximum of 75% at level 5.

I'd also say that there should be two things that need to be 'hacked'. One to get the skills and another to get the implant, with a skill based chance to succeed. So adding another skill:

- Brain-Computer Interference: Every level gives a 15% chance to successfully rewire an implant to the ships systems. With a maximum of 75% at level 5.

Of course, I don't need to say that you would already need to be able to fit that line of implants or have that line of skills to be able to do either one.

I'd also like to mention again though that there should be a counter-balancing mechanic. For example adding a skill that decreases the chance of somebody else hacking your skills or implants. Or even having the self-destruct thing I suggested earlier. Maybe make it so that if you fail to hack successfully, you take damage to a module or to hull/armor. That way there is a risk-reward system.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#30 - 2013-07-25 14:02:10 UTC
I "liked" this because it gave me a good laugh. Well played OP, well played. :)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-07-25 14:15:57 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Shiera Kuni wrote:
I KNEW there was a reason the Reavers strapped corpses to their hull outside of decoration purposes! Also, wouldn't strapping corpse with level 5 Caldari Battleships to your hull while you have level 3 give you an overall bonus equivalent to level 8 Caldari Battleships? Blink

Nope, you are substituting the zombie rig experience level for your own, not adding it cumulatively.

Now, if you had no skill in an ability, you would probably find it more practical to train to level 1 rather than waste an otherwise expensive zombie rig for something you could already do cheaply.

This is intended to improve skills you already have, not give you brand new ones entirely.


But THOSE Corpses were all very skilled armor tankers...

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#32 - 2013-07-25 14:21:40 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Shiera Kuni wrote:
I KNEW there was a reason the Reavers strapped corpses to their hull outside of decoration purposes! Also, wouldn't strapping corpse with level 5 Caldari Battleships to your hull while you have level 3 give you an overall bonus equivalent to level 8 Caldari Battleships? Blink

Nope, you are substituting the zombie rig experience level for your own, not adding it cumulatively.

Now, if you had no skill in an ability, you would probably find it more practical to train to level 1 rather than waste an otherwise expensive zombie rig for something you could already do cheaply.

This is intended to improve skills you already have, not give you brand new ones entirely.


But THOSE Corpses were all very skilled armor tankers...

And in fitting tribute, they became armor themselves, lol

Lets see... would that be considered 400mm flesh armor... what resists would it have...
(Maybe ablative, where the ship shoots a body out to absorb the incoming damage? Like some kind of flesh based defensive missle...)
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-07-25 14:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Nikk Narrel wrote:
And in fitting tribute, they became armor themselves, lol

Lets see... would that be considered 400mm flesh armor... what resists would it have...
(Maybe ablative, where the ship shoots a body out to absorb the incoming damage? Like some kind of flesh based defensive missle...)


They would work better agains lasers since they'd just evaporate on a hit and the resulting cloud would fracture the beam... before it hits the actuall armor...

Their sacrifice will not be forgotten.

EDIT: I must be drunk to have written something like that... o_O

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#34 - 2013-07-25 15:14:58 UTC
It took me a while to figure this out but now I get it.

You turn the corpse into a "rig", and plug its head into the ship, using the corpse as a booster for the ship itself (for example, you have titan level 1, you kill a titan level 5 pilot, you take his carcass, smash it headfirst into your titan ship, and now your titan ship will fly as if you have titan level 5....


yea there will be Much abuse with this.


"Selling Supercapitals with corpse level 5"....

Its a bit much, and circumvents training queues', people's actual skills, and causes just a bloody mess everywhere (literally in this case).

Yaay!!!!

Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#35 - 2013-07-25 15:35:05 UTC
I guess those Blood Raiders were on to something after all weren't they?

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#36 - 2013-07-25 15:37:09 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
It took me a while to figure this out but now I get it.

You turn the corpse into a "rig", and plug its head into the ship, using the corpse as a booster for the ship itself (for example, you have titan level 1, you kill a titan level 5 pilot, you take his carcass, smash it headfirst into your titan ship, and now your titan ship will fly as if you have titan level 5....


yea there will be Much abuse with this.


"Selling Supercapitals with corpse level 5"....

Its a bit much, and circumvents training queues', people's actual skills, and causes just a bloody mess everywhere (literally in this case).

Two points.

One, we already have boosting in various forms, from implants to rigs and modules that extend our capability.
We even have remote boosting that dwarfs the impact this has, on many levels.

Each form of enhancement is temporary, and only lasts an amount of time equal to the source being active and vulnerable to risk, on some level. (Well, off grid boosting is a separate topic, already debated elsewhere)

Two, why would they sell a whole titan, when the corpse can be sold as a separate upgrade more easily?
Aside from having progressively diminishing value, (just over ten hours to reach level 2, a little over 16 days later gives you level 4.... exactly how much is one skill level going to be worth, considering into the cost losing that rig slot and it's calibration?)
It could be quite reasonably argued the loss of that rig plus calibration is not worth one skill level to everyone.

It is notable that any character who spent 200 days getting into the titan, is probably not going to stop skilling to level 5 at that point. They would both:
Have to assume they would never lose the rigged ship
and
Have something better to train on a character who is essentially locked into this ship for the duration.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#37 - 2013-07-25 16:12:22 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
It took me a while to figure this out but now I get it.

You turn the corpse into a "rig", and plug its head into the ship, using the corpse as a booster for the ship itself (for example, you have titan level 1, you kill a titan level 5 pilot, you take his carcass, smash it headfirst into your titan ship, and now your titan ship will fly as if you have titan level 5....


yea there will be Much abuse with this.


"Selling Supercapitals with corpse level 5"....

Its a bit much, and circumvents training queues', people's actual skills, and causes just a bloody mess everywhere (literally in this case).

Two points.

One, we already have boosting in various forms, from implants to rigs and modules that extend our capability.
We even have remote boosting that dwarfs the impact this has, on many levels.

Each form of enhancement is temporary, and only lasts an amount of time equal to the source being active and vulnerable to risk, on some level. (Well, off grid boosting is a separate topic, already debated elsewhere)

Two, why would they sell a whole titan, when the corpse can be sold as a separate upgrade more easily?
Aside from having progressively diminishing value, (just over ten hours to reach level 2, a little over 16 days later gives you level 4.... exactly how much is one skill level going to be worth, considering into the cost losing that rig slot and it's calibration?)
It could be quite reasonably argued the loss of that rig plus calibration is not worth one skill level to everyone.

It is notable that any character who spent 200 days getting into the titan, is probably not going to stop skilling to level 5 at that point. They would both:
Have to assume they would never lose the rigged ship
and
Have something better to train on a character who is essentially locked into this ship for the duration.

Three: this takes up a minimum of one slot that could be used for a Trimark to further ensure the Titans survival. Depending on calibration this could mean even two Trimarks that wouldn't fit.

But it'll all be worth it. Why you may ask? Because Reavers. Motha-******* Reavers.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#38 - 2013-07-25 17:12:58 UTC

If you are strictly limiting this to base hull skills only (i.e. frig, dessie, cruiser, BC, BS, carrier, dread, titan), it wouldn't be crazy overpowered (like my initial reaction thought it would). My clone costs about 30m, and I could give people any non-capital hull a level V bonus with this technique. In truth, a focused character could provide these Hull-Level-V clones for under 10m isk. As long as the calibration cost for implementing this non-trivial ( 200+ cal points), I think this would be alright.

The most abusive case would be Titan V (which would shave 75 days off to Move from Titan III to titan V). If the rigging cost was appropriate, I consider this a so what change. Really, this would increase the titans damage, and increase their gang link bonus. But they give up some important rigs to get it (at least a trimark II).

At the same time, this is kinda morbid, and probably would be very wonky to code.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#39 - 2013-07-25 17:33:05 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

If you are strictly limiting this to base hull skills only (i.e. frig, dessie, cruiser, BC, BS, carrier, dread, titan), it wouldn't be crazy overpowered (like my initial reaction thought it would). My clone costs about 30m, and I could give people any non-capital hull a level V bonus with this technique. In truth, a focused character could provide these Hull-Level-V clones for under 10m isk. As long as the calibration cost for implementing this non-trivial ( 200+ cal points), I think this would be alright.

The most abusive case would be Titan V (which would shave 75 days off to Move from Titan III to titan V). If the rigging cost was appropriate, I consider this a so what change. Really, this would increase the titans damage, and increase their gang link bonus. But they give up some important rigs to get it (at least a trimark II).

At the same time, this is kinda morbid, and probably would be very wonky to code.

It is morbid to us, since we live in a world where dead body always means someone's life has ended.
Dropping the association this naturally has to us, is like telling someone afraid of spiders that they can have a pet tarantula. Sure, it is true they could do this, but the associations in their mind do not simply go away that easily.

The cost to get one of these in EVE means someone is inconvenienced, and quite possibly upset over costs to replace a ship and upgrade a replacement clone.

You can even experience the creepy in new ways, by getting one of your own bodies. Maybe you could have a funereal for it, or offer it to Joe Linux for a date.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-07-25 18:13:42 UTC
Its a better idea than the usual 'let me salvage the corpse and recycle the implants' nonsense we see on these pages.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

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