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Decided to build a Providence freighter....
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Nestor II
426 Hemi Powered Mining
#1 - 2011-11-08 18:59:16 UTC
So I got the bpc's and added up all the mins needed and remembered the reason why i stopped a few years ago, the mineral list alone will take me a while to get, well better get started 92 million tritanium won't mine itself.

Will buy the Megcyte and Zydrine soon enough.

Every little thing she does is Magic.
Brock Nelson
#2 - 2011-11-08 19:08:33 UTC
You could always purchase it off the market

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#3 - 2011-11-08 19:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Freighters are generally not worth the effort to build if you are buying bpc packs. If you calculate the cost and add in your bpc cost, it might break even but I haven't ever found this to be the case. Add in that you are going to build it, that's a lot of isk tied up for a month you can't use. Not to mention if you are making this for yourself, all those production lines are tied up not making any isk.

I suggest you try and sell the bpcs back on contracts if you can and just mine/save to buy straight off the market

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#4 - 2011-11-08 19:42:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tekota
Yes, buy one off the market, right now, in Jita. NOT THAT ONE, that one, yes that's the one. (edit: points to corp name <<<, freighters make ideal birthday presents, also available for bar mizvahs)

Ok. The last five providences I've churned out have returned no better than 121m profit (and worse 73m profit for the record).

That's using well researched original prints with a very well organised logistical setup.

If your BPCs cost more than those profit figures it would be cheaper to buy straight off the market. (oh, and for all those thinking "wow, 121m profit per freighter, I've gotta get into that game" : work out profit per slot per day - I struggle to hit a measley 3m per slot per day building freighters).


edit 2: ok, for 92m units of trit I'm guessing an me5 prov with me100 components (would result in 91.67m trit req). On yesterday's Jita mineral sell prices that would result in a build cost of 720.8m - add the cost of your BPCs to that and see if it's more or less than what you'd pay to buy a prov from the market.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#5 - 2011-11-08 20:08:36 UTC
Nestor II wrote:
So I got the bpc's and added up all the mins needed and remembered the reason why i stopped a few years ago, the mineral list alone will take me a while to get, well better get started 92 million tritanium won't mine itself.

Will buy the Megcyte and Zydrine soon enough.


If you aren't doing this already, try scanning down grav sites. Jaspet, Hemorphie, and Hedbergite deposits will yield a good amount of nocxium and zydrine, and make for a nice break from the standard belts. They will pop up in systems as high as 0.8. You do have to train the exploration skills, but you're going to be mining veldspar for a while as it is. :)

Profit favors the prepared
Raziphan Rebular
Path of Dooppa
#6 - 2011-11-08 21:06:10 UTC
But minerals you mine yourself as free right?! Lol
Skorpynekomimi
#7 - 2011-11-08 21:08:31 UTC
Doing it because you WANT to build it?

You're crazy.
*salutes, but misses and savages his fingers because of the black goggles and spikey forehead*
Best of luck with this endeavour, and good mining.

Economic PVP
Nestor II
426 Hemi Powered Mining
#8 - 2011-11-09 13:27:27 UTC
I will make bank on this build, as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything, The way it is going I see me making about 400 Million after all expenses are taken away.

Having an Orca account and another miner account makes it way easier to get the quantities of mins for the build and Yes I have the skills for Mining, Refining, scanning and building, oops forgot to mention all freighter skills at level 5.

One corp i was in before had me being the person building the freighters, someone else did the copying of the BPO's.

Oh Well, back to playing EVE at work.

Every little thing she does is Magic.
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#9 - 2011-11-09 13:32:17 UTC
Whilst the minerals that you mine don't cost anything they do have a value. That value is defined by the market. So what people were getting at is could you just sell what you had mined for more than what you would sell the freighter for, bearing in mind that you also had to buy the BPCs to build the freighter.


Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#10 - 2011-11-09 18:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Nestor II wrote:
I will make bank on this build, as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything, The way it is going I see me making about 400 Million after all expenses are taken away.

Having an Orca account and another miner account makes it way easier to get the quantities of mins for the build and Yes I have the skills for Mining, Refining, scanning and building, oops forgot to mention all freighter skills at level 5.

One corp i was in before had me being the person building the freighters, someone else did the copying of the BPO's.

Oh Well, back to playing EVE at work.

You might be getting 400million, but that's from mining, not building a freighter. You are using 'minerals I mine are free' logic. You are probably losing isk to be perfectly honest - see my earlier post on slot usage. Do the math again assuming you are buying the mats and find your profit then. Highly doubt its 400 million.

Also, you will be mining less profitable ores to come up with all the mats in the list when you could be mining the most profitable ores and buying what you need. I.e. Isogen - Why mine omber when you can mine veld for more isk?

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
pussnheels
Viziam
#11 - 2011-11-10 08:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
Zifrian wrote:
Freighters are generally not worth the effort to build if you are buying bpc packs. If you calculate the cost and add in your bpc cost, it might break even but I haven't ever found this to be the case. Add in that you are going to build it, that's a lot of isk tied up for a month you can't use. Not to mention if you are making this for yourself, all those production lines are tied up not making any isk.

I suggest you try and sell the bpcs back on contracts if you can and just mine/save to buy straight off the market

true but the pride of flying a freighter you build and knowing you painstakingly mined all the minerals yourself , selling the excess low end minerals for the zyd and mega,

that feels good

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#12 - 2011-11-10 09:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: mechtech
Nestor II wrote:
I will make bank on this build, as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything, The way it is going I see me making about 400 Million after all expenses are taken away.


What if you can sell those 400m in minerals for 450m on the market, are you still booking that "400m profit"? Please read up on Opportunity Cost. This is a very important concept to be successful in business in this game, and to be honest it's an important concept to grasp for real life as well.

Let's say you mine the 400m of minerals in 20 hours of playtime, netting 20m per hour in income. Let's also say that you could have ran Incursions for 20 hours, or blitzed lvl 4s, and made 40m per hour. Of course I'm simplifying things, but you would basically have net loss of 400m when you look at the opportunity cost in choosing to spend 20 hours of your time making 1/2 as much.

A more relevant point to make is that you're going to be wasting a ton of time mining tritanium for the freighter. Do you have access to high end ore? If you do, then you could mine high end ore for 1 hour, sell the ore, and buy 5 hours in mining time of tritanium.

Unfortunately many people don't understand this, so the T1 and T2 market is full of items that cost less to buy than build. That fact doesn't stop "industry players" from cranking out more of them though, because in their eyes they're making money. If they spent 15 seconds to think about it, maybe they'd realize that they could stop wasting time selling items, dump the minerals on the market, and actually end up with more isk in their wallet.
pussnheels
Viziam
#13 - 2011-11-10 09:49:25 UTC
mechtech wrote:
Nestor II wrote:
I will make bank on this build, as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything, The way it is going I see me making about 400 Million after all expenses are taken away.


What if you can sell those 400m in minerals for 450m on the market, are you still booking that "400m profit"? Please read up on Opportunity Cost. This is a very important concept to be successful in business in this game, and to be honest it's an important concept to grasp for real life as well.

Let's say you mine the 400m of minerals in 20 hours of playtime, netting 20m per hour in income. Let's also say that you could have ran Incursions for 20 hours, or blitzed lvl 4s, and made 40m per hour. Of course I'm simplifying things, but you would basically have net loss of 400m when you look at the opportunity cost in choosing to spend 20 hours of your time making 1/2 as much.

A more relevant point to make is that you're going to be wasting a ton of time mining tritanium for the freighter. Do you have access to high end ore? If you do, then you could mine high end ore for 1 hour, sell the ore, and buy 5 hours in mining time of tritanium.

Unfortunately many people don't understand this, so the T1 and T2 market is full of items that cost less to buy than build. That fact doesn't stop "industry players" from cranking out more of them though, because in their eyes they're making money. If they spent 15 seconds to think about it, maybe they'd realize that they could stop wasting time selling items, dump the minerals on the market, and actually end up with more isk in their wallet.

aaahh gosh EVE IS NOT real life this is not a second job ALL YOUR iskies are worth nothing in real life

Indeed you are right with your stats but this is a game dammit if the guy wants to manufacture his own freighter and want to mine all the minerals himself it is HIS game and his ENJOYMENT, and i am damn sure he will be damn proud when he finish his providence , because it will be HIS ship and HIS patience and work that made it

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Velicitia
XS Tech
#14 - 2011-11-10 11:09:16 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
mechtech wrote:
Nestor II wrote:
I will make bank on this build, as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything, The way it is going I see me making about 400 Million after all expenses are taken away.


What if you can sell those 400m in minerals for 450m on the market, are you still booking that "400m profit"? Please read up on Opportunity Cost. This is a very important concept to be successful in business in this game, and to be honest it's an important concept to grasp for real life as well.

Let's say you mine the 400m of minerals in 20 hours of playtime, netting 20m per hour in income. Let's also say that you could have ran Incursions for 20 hours, or blitzed lvl 4s, and made 40m per hour. Of course I'm simplifying things, but you would basically have net loss of 400m when you look at the opportunity cost in choosing to spend 20 hours of your time making 1/2 as much.

A more relevant point to make is that you're going to be wasting a ton of time mining tritanium for the freighter. Do you have access to high end ore? If you do, then you could mine high end ore for 1 hour, sell the ore, and buy 5 hours in mining time of tritanium.

Unfortunately many people don't understand this, so the T1 and T2 market is full of items that cost less to buy than build. That fact doesn't stop "industry players" from cranking out more of them though, because in their eyes they're making money. If they spent 15 seconds to think about it, maybe they'd realize that they could stop wasting time selling items, dump the minerals on the market, and actually end up with more isk in their wallet.

aaahh gosh EVE IS NOT real life this is not a second job ALL YOUR iskies are worth nothing in real life

Indeed you are right with your stats but this is a game dammit if the guy wants to manufacture his own freighter and want to mine all the minerals himself it is HIS game and his ENJOYMENT, and i am damn sure he will be damn proud when he finish his providence , because it will be HIS ship and HIS patience and work that made it



pay attention here captain...

Nestor II wrote:
I will make bank on this build, as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything, The way it is going I see me making about 400 Million after all expenses are taken away.


Breaking this down :

"I will make bank ... 400m after expenses" --> implication is that the ship will be sold by Nestor on the market
"as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything" --> MIMAF

Both statements are dead wrong. Now, if Nestor means "so, if I mine the crap ores, I can spend time (that I was spending anyway in the game) to mine 400m or so trit that I would otherwise have to buy off the market. As this is a build for personal use, I am going to consider the minerals themselves 'free', even though they have a value of approx 400m on the market" ... then that's a little different, and your argument is valid.


One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
pussnheels
Viziam
#15 - 2011-11-10 12:07:20 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
mechtech wrote:
Nestor II wrote:
I will make bank on this build, as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything, The way it is going I see me making about 400 Million after all expenses are taken away.


What if you can sell those 400m in minerals for 450m on the market, are you still booking that "400m profit"? Please read up on Opportunity Cost. This is a very important concept to be successful in business in this game, and to be honest it's an important concept to grasp for real life as well.

Let's say you mine the 400m of minerals in 20 hours of playtime, netting 20m per hour in income. Let's also say that you could have ran Incursions for 20 hours, or blitzed lvl 4s, and made 40m per hour. Of course I'm simplifying things, but you would basically have net loss of 400m when you look at the opportunity cost in choosing to spend 20 hours of your time making 1/2 as much.

A more relevant point to make is that you're going to be wasting a ton of time mining tritanium for the freighter. Do you have access to high end ore? If you do, then you could mine high end ore for 1 hour, sell the ore, and buy 5 hours in mining time of tritanium.

Unfortunately many people don't understand this, so the T1 and T2 market is full of items that cost less to buy than build. That fact doesn't stop "industry players" from cranking out more of them though, because in their eyes they're making money. If they spent 15 seconds to think about it, maybe they'd realize that they could stop wasting time selling items, dump the minerals on the market, and actually end up with more isk in their wallet.

aaahh gosh EVE IS NOT real life this is not a second job ALL YOUR iskies are worth nothing in real life

Indeed you are right with your stats but this is a game dammit if the guy wants to manufacture his own freighter and want to mine all the minerals himself it is HIS game and his ENJOYMENT, and i am damn sure he will be damn proud when he finish his providence , because it will be HIS ship and HIS patience and work that made it



pay attention here captain...

Nestor II wrote:
I will make bank on this build, as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything, The way it is going I see me making about 400 Million after all expenses are taken away.


Breaking this down :

"I will make bank ... 400m after expenses" --> implication is that the ship will be sold by Nestor on the market
"as what I mine for this build I don't count as costing me anything" --> MIMAF

Both statements are dead wrong. Now, if Nestor means "so, if I mine the crap ores, I can spend time (that I was spending anyway in the game) to mine 400m or so trit that I would otherwise have to buy off the market. As this is a build for personal use, I am going to consider the minerals themselves 'free', even though they have a value of approx 400m on the market" ... then that's a little different, and your argument is valid.




No my point is this obsesion with making iskies as much and as quick as you can in a GAME that has no Value what so ever in RLand is there fore utterly stupid, Where is the fun going over spreadsheet after spreadsheet in your free time just make more iskies, if i want to look at spreadsheets all day i just go to the office and i will see spreadsheets all day ...
and stop saying minerals i mine are free is WRONG because they are FREE it is MY OWN TIME it is MY CHOICE to mine WHEN and for HOW LONG i want ... MY CHOICE , not because your spreadsheet says otherwise

and if i want to mine the minerals for my own freighter myself that is MY CHOICE and i would be DAMN PROUD of it when it is finished and all your amateur market specialist can shove their spreadsheets in their ............

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Kato Matsu
Ministry of War
#16 - 2011-11-10 13:52:54 UTC
I fully understand the logic behind MIMAF. I also understand Opportunity Cost.

Activity A: 100mil ISK per hour

Activity B: 75mil ISK in 30 minutes

Yes, activity B made you less ISK but you technically made more ISK per hour.

I get that, but it doesn't apply to Eve at all and here is why.

Since playing Eve I have never once heard pilots compare wallets as some kind of measure of their in-game power, influence, or (most importantly) fun. Matter of fact, the pilots I have met who were having a BLAST with eve were dirt poor. They have less than 5mil ISK in their wallets half the time and less than 100mil ISK in their wallets the other half. Furthermore, the pilots I meet who get upset at the drop of a hat and generally are poor people to play with are the "ISK accountants".

So to the OP I say: build your freighter and enjoy your work. You will be able to say that you built it yourself, from the ground up. It's a good feeling and you will learn a lot in the process. If you work with a corpmate to build this freighter then you will solidify your connections with your corp.

TL;DR have fun with production and mining. Ignore those obsessed with ISK/hr

Also... to all the ISK accountants out there I have a really scarey thought...

/sarcasm
You are wasting ISK by being on this forum! Shocked

It took you 28.92 seconds to read this post and that's time spent you could be making ISK, which as we all know, is the entire reason eve exists.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#17 - 2011-11-10 14:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
To the last two posters, all good and well. However, the OP isn't making that point, he is arguing that he will make bank on this idea, which implies he wants to make isk by building and then selling. All the other posts relating to that are to highlight his flawed logic in this area.

On the idea that isk/hour isn't important, sure maybe not to you but it is what makes industry fun for many of us. Add in the fact I pay for both my accounts with plex (as do many industrialists), then it does matter in real life too. I have an extra 30 bucks a month and the fun of playing such a dynamic game. I call that a win-win.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-11-10 14:38:20 UTC
Kato Matsu wrote:
I fully understand the logic behind MIMAF. I also understand Opportunity Cost.

Activity A: 100mil ISK per hour

Activity B: 75mil ISK in 30 minutes

Yes, activity B made you less ISK but you technically made more ISK per hour.



Do activity B twice an hour

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
pussnheels
Viziam
#19 - 2011-11-10 14:42:18 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
To the last two posters, all good well. However, the OP isn't making hat point, he is arguing that he will make bank on this idea, which implies he wants to make isk by building and then selling. All the otherposeys relating to that are to highlight his flawed logic in this area.

On the idea that isk/hour isn't important, sure maybe not to you but it is what makes industry fun for many of us. Add in the fact I pay for both my accounts with plex (as do many industrialists), then it does matter in real life too. I have an extra 30 bucks a month and the fun of playing such a dynamic game. I call that a win-win.


True , and i got a bit angry, my apology to everyone, like you said each their own , but if your RL work involves acounting , deadlines and finances you pretty much want to do something else in the evening then checking spreadsheets to maximize your profits

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-11-10 14:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Wylde
Raziphan Rebular wrote:
But minerals you mine yourself as free right?! Lol



The fact that he is mining them himself does not mean he thinks they're free. He never stated anything of the sort in the OP.

pussnheels wrote:


No my point is this obsesion with making iskies as much and as quick as you can in a GAME that has no Value what so ever in RLand is there fore utterly stupid, Where is the fun going over spreadsheet after spreadsheet in your free time just make more iskies, if i want to look at spreadsheets all day i just go to the office and i will see spreadsheets all day ...
and stop saying minerals i mine are free is WRONG because they are FREE it is MY OWN TIME it is MY CHOICE to mine WHEN and for HOW LONG i want ... MY CHOICE , not because your spreadsheet says otherwise

and if i want to mine the minerals for my own freighter myself that is MY CHOICE and i would be DAMN PROUD of it when it is finished and all your amateur market specialist can shove their spreadsheets in their ............



Where's the value in sitting on gates for hours on end blowing people up who have no realistic chance of fighting back?

Where's the value in suicide ganking miners in hi sec?

Where's the value in roaming through wormholes, looking for PvE'ers or industrialists to blow up?

Where's the value in FW?

Where's the value in RvB?

In alliance wars?

Anywhere in this game, at all?


Just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean no one else is capable of enjoying it. Value in this game, or in any game, is determined by what makes you happy. Some people enjoy trading. Some people enjoy mining. Some people can only be happy screwing over others. Some people have fun picking apart useless posts on the forums, made by narrow minded fools.
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