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[Proposal] One time character name change per account with conditions.

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#21 - 2013-07-24 15:15:36 UTC
The CSM is currently in conversation with CCP on this issue.

I doubt you'll get much traction for the +3.0 sec status requirement though.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Gamer4liff
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-07-24 15:36:46 UTC
Much thanks, Malcanis. Any method of renaming would be much appreciated.

A comprehensive proposal for balancing T2 Production: here
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#23 - 2013-07-24 15:57:49 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

1.) There needs to be an Alias tab on your character sheet that shows your complete NAME history.
2.) Your corp history should absolutely NEVER be erased.
3.) Your corp history tab should also include the name you were known as at that time.
4.) I see absolutely no reason for the sec status requirement. Who gives a **** about people aggressing in lowsec!! The whole point is to keep track of scammers, AWOXers, thieves, spies, and similar delinquents, which have nothing to do with sec status!
5.) Limited use is necessary, but not required. 1 per year would probably be sufficient.

Finally, I'm not sure it's worth the effort. What happens to the "old names" that keep getting taken? How do you handle Joe changing his name to Sam, and John changing his name to Joe? That could be incredibly confusing and best not permitted. Also, you do realize this will create tons of "name scams"; think about the new "chribba" scams, where peopel pose as chribba over and over and over to steal with his reputation (then again, this probably already happens).

In the end, this could be implemented with the above caveats, I'm just not sure it is worth the troubles.


In a universe where your name is at times more influential than your guns - I would vote not to name changes.

As far as ppl imposing as me (impostors) that happens quite often and it's against the EULA so said pilots gets the punishment that serves them.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Gamer4liff
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-07-24 16:33:02 UTC
Chribba wrote:

In a universe where your name is at times more influential than your guns - I would vote not to name changes.


Any name change of a character with such a large influence would quickly be propagated. Especially if the character was an infamous scammer. Moreover, people with influential names would be much less likely to change them, so it would be a fringe case at best for the influential, especially if namechanges were prohibitively expensive or required a large sacrifice (such as a % chunk of SP, god forbid).

And again, nobody is asking for people to be allowed to be given totally clean slates with no traceable history.

There's zero RP justification to not have name changes available. EVE is a dark place after all, and adding a low hoop (clicking a tab on their char's info) for people to jump through to read somebody's name history would not be the end of the world. Quite the contrary, it would be a good follow up to the changes in the Bounty expansion in a narrative sense.

Hrm, best kick a notification to people who put bounties on the namechanging char as well when they change names, if anything like this ever gets implemented.

A comprehensive proposal for balancing T2 Production: here
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#25 - 2013-07-24 17:44:57 UTC
Gamer4liff wrote:
Much thanks, Malcanis. Any method of renaming would be much appreciated.


I'm pretty glad I didn't let 14 year old me name Malc :Roll

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2013-07-24 17:45:12 UTC
(That would not have ended well)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jotunspor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-07-24 21:09:08 UTC
Ooh... woah. We're actually getting CCP to see this, and getting feedback? That's awesome..

I'm just hoping it goes through. Limited as being a one-time thing. That'd probably be the best approach. At least that's what i think. One-time character change, so it doesn't get our of control.

I'm hoping it happens. Straight
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-07-25 01:32:04 UTC
Jotunspor wrote:
Ooh... woah. We're actually getting CCP to see this, and getting feedback? That's awesome..

I'm just hoping it goes through. Limited as being a one-time thing. That'd probably be the best approach. At least that's what i think. One-time character change, so it doesn't get our of control.

I'm hoping it happens. Straight

that's a CSM tag not a CCP tag beside his name :)
Crystal Stills
Compendium Research Company
#29 - 2013-07-25 05:14:21 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The CSM is currently in conversation with CCP on this issue.

I doubt you'll get much traction for the +3.0 sec status requirement though.


First off Malcanis, thank you for making it a topic of the CSM and second I don't much care about the +3.0 sec status. I was just trying to make it less criminal friendly.

Chribba and Gamer4liff also had good input to the topic and what Gamer4liff said I agree with. The thing I can't stress the most though is to make it a one time deal per account to prevent this from being abused.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-07-25 11:24:36 UTC
I wouldn't make it a 1 time deal per account but rather have a very long cooldown (3-4 months at the min, maybe even 6 months?) before that account would be allowed to name change again.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#31 - 2013-07-25 12:03:14 UTC
Gamer4liff wrote:


There's zero RP justification to not have name changes available. EVE is a dark place after all, and adding a low hoop (clicking a tab on their char's info) for people to jump through to read somebody's name history would not be the end of the world. Quite the contrary, it would be a good follow up to the changes in the Bounty expansion in a narrative sense.



Sorry Gamer4liff, but clicking through peoples Bio to see if they were someone else adds another complexity to Eve that just isn't an enjoyable gaming experience.

Let me give an example:

Lets say, I live in a quiet system, happily mining. I 'know' the locals and people who frequent the system. There are a couple of people I watch out for:

'EvilDude666' - this guy suicide ganks miners.
'Bumpmeister' - this guy bumps people off a belt he wants to mine himself.

If I see one of these guys enter local, I modify my behavior to suit the situation.

Now with name changes.... every unknown who enters local, I have to click 'show pilot info', select the 'alias' tab.... I basically spend my gaming time checking the aliases of people. Not Fun.


All that name changes will accomplish is make 'Known' pilots, 'Unknowns' again. (and in a game where actions have consequences, this should not be allowed)


Yes I am aware Eve is a 'dark' place, people harp on about realism, and we can do this in RL so why not in Eve.... But it boils down to this... Eve is a Game! It needs to be enjoyable.... adding more tedium, for the sake of 'realism' will not help the game.

Please Note: I have not addressed the Char Bazaar... that is a necessary evil that I don't think should be allowed, but I understand why it is in place.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Gamer4liff
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-07-25 13:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Gamer4liff
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Gamer4liff wrote:


There's zero RP justification to not have name changes available. EVE is a dark place after all, and adding a low hoop (clicking a tab on their char's info) for people to jump through to read somebody's name history would not be the end of the world. Quite the contrary, it would be a good follow up to the changes in the Bounty expansion in a narrative sense.



Sorry Gamer4liff, but clicking through peoples Bio to see if they were someone else adds another complexity to Eve that just isn't an enjoyable gaming experience.

Let me give an example:

Lets say, I live in a quiet system, happily mining. I 'know' the locals and people who frequent the system. There are a couple of people I watch out for:

'EvilDude666' - this guy suicide ganks miners.
'Bumpmeister' - this guy bumps people off a belt he wants to mine himself.

If I see one of these guys enter local, I modify my behavior to suit the situation.

Now with name changes.... every unknown who enters local, I have to click 'show pilot info', select the 'alias' tab.... I basically spend my gaming time checking the aliases of people. Not Fun.


All that name changes will accomplish is make 'Known' pilots, 'Unknowns' again. (and in a game where actions have consequences, this should not be allowed)


Yes I am aware Eve is a 'dark' place, people harp on about realism, and we can do this in RL so why not in Eve.... But it boils down to this... Eve is a Game! It needs to be enjoyable.... adding more tedium, for the sake of 'realism' will not help the game.

Please Note: I have not addressed the Char Bazaar... that is a necessary evil that I don't think should be allowed, but I understand why it is in place.

If properly implemented you would get an evemail notification sent to you that he changed his name if you set his standings (which I'm imagining you would if you're really keeping track of people by individuals and not their corporations). That would be sufficient notice.

Also no offense but if you're mining in lowsec with a new unknown neut in system, you're kind of leaving yourself open to attack at a baseline level, regardless of any namechange mechanics. If it's really a quiet system I also wouldn't see a problem with somebody clicking and showing info on new people as they enter the system. You say it like it would be an undue burden of time, but it wouldn't be any longer than auditing new individuals entering the system normally.

Good input though, and I see where you're coming from. It's good that we don't lose consequences of actions.

A comprehensive proposal for balancing T2 Production: here
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#33 - 2013-07-25 13:30:52 UTC
Crystal Stills wrote:
I don't much care about the +3.0 sec status. I was just trying to make it less criminal friendly.

Chribba and Gamer4liff also had good input to the topic and what Gamer4liff said I agree with. The thing I can't stress the most though is to make it a one time deal per account to prevent this from being abused.


In my experience the pirates with -10.0 sec are generally pretty proud of their reputation and would have no particular wish to change their name to escape that rep.

The "criminals" who would want to whitewash their characters names are (much like in real life) rarely the sort of pirates who get chased by the police. You don't take a sec hit for margin trade scams or corp thefts or pyramid schemes or awoxing or spying.

Sec status is a non issue here tbh.




"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#34 - 2013-07-25 13:32:17 UTC
Gamer4liff wrote:

If properly implemented you would get an evemail notification sent to you that he changed his name if you set his standings (which I'm imagining you would if you're really keeping track of people by individuals and not their corporations). That would be sufficient notice.

Also no offense but if you're mining in lowsec with a new unknown neut in system, you're kind of leaving yourself open to attack at a baseline level, regardless of any namechange mechanics. If it's really a quiet system I also wouldn't see a problem with somebody clicking and showing info on new people as they enter the system. You say it like it would be an undue burden of time, but it wouldn't be any longer than auditing new individuals entering the system normally.

Good input though, and I see where you're coming from. It's good that we don't lose consequences of actions.


I was actually thinking about Hi-Sec for my example.

Also, even with setting standings, a name change turns a 'known' someone, into an 'unknown' someone. (until i spend time checking bio's)

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Gamer4liff
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-07-25 15:22:11 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Gamer4liff wrote:

If properly implemented you would get an evemail notification sent to you that he changed his name if you set his standings (which I'm imagining you would if you're really keeping track of people by individuals and not their corporations). That would be sufficient notice.

Also no offense but if you're mining in lowsec with a new unknown neut in system, you're kind of leaving yourself open to attack at a baseline level, regardless of any namechange mechanics. If it's really a quiet system I also wouldn't see a problem with somebody clicking and showing info on new people as they enter the system. You say it like it would be an undue burden of time, but it wouldn't be any longer than auditing new individuals entering the system normally.

Good input though, and I see where you're coming from. It's good that we don't lose consequences of actions.


I was actually thinking about Hi-Sec for my example.

Also, even with setting standings, a name change turns a 'known' someone, into an 'unknown' someone. (until i spend time checking bio's)

Fair point.

Upon further reflection of the example though, if you set them a standing (as you should if you're keeping track of people individually and all), their bad standing would still be preserved through the name change and you'd see a fairly large red flag whenever they entered local chat seeing the standing next to their name. If I'm remembering the existing system working like that right.

A comprehensive proposal for balancing T2 Production: here
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-07-25 19:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Flames
Gamer4liff wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:

I was actually thinking about Hi-Sec for my example.

Also, even with setting standings, a name change turns a 'known' someone, into an 'unknown' someone. (until i spend time checking bio's)

Fair point.

Upon further reflection of the example though, if you set them a standing (as you should if you're keeping track of people individually and all), their bad standing would still be preserved through the name change and you'd see a fairly large red flag whenever they entered local chat seeing the standing next to their name. If I'm remembering the existing system working like that right.

jint has been posting in this topic since it was first created and we've been saying the entire time he'd get a notification (in fact it's in the very FIRST post). He's either incapable of reading or trolling.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#37 - 2013-07-26 08:20:36 UTC
Yes i know you have been saying that a notification would be sent out. 'if you have that person set to some level of standing'

Maybe I am playing Eve 'wrong', but I personally don't have everyone I recognize in Eve setup with a standing.

I'm sure there are people out there, in the bigger alliances, or regulars in the more lawless parts of the Eve universe who have hundreds of people setup in their standings. If people start regularly changing their names, thats going to be a nightmare to keep track of.

Even so, with this idea we are now playing 'keep track of notifications about who is who', and if you ask me it adds another layer of complexity which does not make Eve more fun to play. (and it is a game, which is supposed to be enjoyable)


As you can probably tell, I don't support name-changes in Eve. Never have.. never will. I'm sorry if you think I'm 'incapable of reading' (i'm not!) or that I'm Trolling (also not).

Fly Safe!

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#38 - 2013-07-26 12:29:25 UTC
EvE is a game of choices. If you dun goofed then thats the end of it. you move on.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Jotunspor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-07-27 17:57:52 UTC
Job Valador wrote:
EvE is a game of choices. If you dun goofed then thats the end of it. you move on.



Yeah, and it's funny how they give us a choice to change our entire character's appearance, but not the name. In some ways, that's even moreso changing than a name change.

You could use the real world as an example.

What's a greater change? Changing your name? Or getting surgery to drastically change your appearance...?

All characters, from what i can see, have been flagged for recustomization if you haven't already done so... so, yeah.

Give my character a nosejob, eyelift, etc. Take the pornstar route, or change their name?

Hmm.... that's a tough one. I can't tell which is a greater change... Lol
Gamer4liff
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-07-29 16:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gamer4liff
Job Valador wrote:
EvE is a game of choices. If you dun goofed then thats the end of it. you move on.

It is a game of choices, yes, but there is almost always an in-game solution to overcome mistakes, and the mistakes hurt, but they are not permanently debilitating. Lose a ship stupidly? Don't fly like that again. Got scammed? Don't fall for the scam again. Undock with 20 PLEX in your hold in an ibis from Jita 4-4? Etc. Here the problem is constant and all but unavoidable, the only "solution" is to purchase a new char with isk, or start over, quite immersion breaking.

The game has been moving toward having no permanent way to screw up your char for a while now, years ago you could not remap your attributes, or change your face. I see no reason it can't be taken one step further and allow people to change their names, with proper and reasonable implementation.

A comprehensive proposal for balancing T2 Production: here