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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers

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M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#1581 - 2013-07-25 01:58:00 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
nikar galvren wrote:
I'm personally of the opinion that the key to making the HAC lineup attractive to more pilots is not to reduce the cost, or overpower them relative to T1/T3/ABCs. Call me crazy, but I don't think that cost is a significant deterrent for hull usage - look at the proliferation nullsec T3 blob doctrines. I think that the HAC lineup could be made relevant simply by giving them a role that no other ship fills, or *at least* that no other cruiser fills.

One example that I've seen cited in this thread is the HICs - no other hull can fit an infinipoint, thus guaranteeing a place in anti-super ops. Only the Stealth Bombers can bomb. I personally like the idea of allowing only the 'Attack' HACs the option of fitting a MJD, giving them the mobility that no other hull can boast. I like the idea of allowing the 'Combat' HACs the option of fitting Capital sized weapons, thus making them tanky anti-cap ships. I like the Target Spectrum Breaker idea, but I'm not certain that that bonus would be enough to get me to fly one. I like role bonuses that make the hull class unique.

I want to hear what role bonuses YOU want though. What would you like your HAC to do that no other cruiser can do?

MJD Vagabond would be rather annoying to catch. But otherwise I actually like this idea.
Yeah but don't forget: you'd be able to jump out and if he does, then he's 100km away, and you won't have to worry anymore anyway.

Plus, since it'd be limited to HACs, it'd differentiate the Vaga from the Cynabal that much more.

Unless he got out in hull or something, it's not like he's going to leave. More likely the vaga will jump out, load barrage and start skirmishing at a safer distance until his MJD reloads and then he'll start playing more risky again.


It would differentiate between HACs and their counterparts, as well as opening up new tactics to players

MJD is probably my favorite role bonus idea.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#1582 - 2013-07-25 02:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Iyacia Cyric'ai
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
nikar galvren wrote:
I'm personally of the opinion that the key to making the HAC lineup attractive to more pilots is not to reduce the cost, or overpower them relative to T1/T3/ABCs. Call me crazy, but I don't think that cost is a significant deterrent for hull usage - look at the proliferation nullsec T3 blob doctrines. I think that the HAC lineup could be made relevant simply by giving them a role that no other ship fills, or *at least* that no other cruiser fills.

One example that I've seen cited in this thread is the HICs - no other hull can fit an infinipoint, thus guaranteeing a place in anti-super ops. Only the Stealth Bombers can bomb. I personally like the idea of allowing only the 'Attack' HACs the option of fitting a MJD, giving them the mobility that no other hull can boast. I like the idea of allowing the 'Combat' HACs the option of fitting Capital sized weapons, thus making them tanky anti-cap ships. I like the Target Spectrum Breaker idea, but I'm not certain that that bonus would be enough to get me to fly one. I like role bonuses that make the hull class unique.

I want to hear what role bonuses YOU want though. What would you like your HAC to do that no other cruiser can do?

MJD Vagabond would be rather annoying to catch. But otherwise I actually like this idea.
Yeah but don't forget: you'd be able to jump out and if he does, then he's 100km away, and you won't have to worry anymore anyway.

Plus, since it'd be limited to HACs, it'd differentiate the Vaga from the Cynabal that much more.

Unless he got out in hull or something, it's not like he's going to leave. More likely the vaga will jump out, load barrage and start skirmishing at a safer distance until his MJD reloads and then he'll start playing more risky again.


It would differentiate between HACs and their counterparts, as well as opening up new tactics to players

MJD is probably my favorite role bonus idea.

I doubt it'll open up THAT many tactics. I mean, most HACs are fast enough that they can just burn out of point range with MWD. The only time this will be used is if they're longpointed but have like huginn/rapier/loki etc webs on them. MJD is useful on a BS because there's not much they can do to an intie longpointing them and orbiting at 24-30km and this gives them a option to escape that situation. 24-30km is like the deathzone for a frig against most HACs though so I have no idea why the HAC pilot would want to MJD out in that situation.

The current MWD sig bonus along with the speed buffs are fine IMO. Long range DPS with less vulnerability to BS guns is a useful role.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1583 - 2013-07-25 03:04:37 UTC
I really like the idea of having two clear roles brawlers with high tank and 700+ dps, and kitters with 400-600dps. And get 60%-100% reduction to MWD sig radius




Just to make this clear guys having this clear guys. If Micro Jump Drives were able to be for on any ship lass other than battle ships it would ruin the whole point of them which was to make battleships more mobile. If all ships can do it the that pretty much puts battleships back at square 1.
JerseyBOI 2
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1584 - 2013-07-25 03:08:54 UTC
Doddy wrote:
They are "assault" cruisers. They should be tough as hell brawlers that get in your face and break you. Ahacs epitomise this.

A bonus that should be considered is one to the reactive armour hardener, allowing the hac to react to incoming damage quicker than other ships. Its not suiable for shield hacs obviously but hey you can give them a bonus to asbs in some way. Maybe a role bonus that allows armour hacs to react twice as fast as normal with reactive hardener and allows shield hacs to load twice as many boosters in asb?

Allowing them to use the Micro jump drive could work also. Or use target breaker without losing own lock. The "more enemies shooting you the more effective it is" thing totally fits. Really this is a big opportunity for ccp to do something a bit different.

More boring bonuses are the obvious ab speed like assault frigs were going to have back in the good old days. Or an overloading bonus so they can go trully all in (steps on t3s toes too much in my view).




Wow. These ships are not brawlers. When you brawl you either go money, (super pimped insert-->T3, Hyperion, Vindi, Navy Mega, Maelstrom, links, pills, etc...) or you go cheap (insert-->Brutix, Vexor, Thorax, Maller, Prophecy, lol links, lol pills, etc.. )
you get the point. This is EVE 2013. Gangs are now considered <50, everyone is baiting, 9 outta 10 you wont be able to disengage. If this is your playstyle your a fool to use HACS. Not the tankiest, not the cheapest. Just because FLEETS use AHACS to great effect doesn't mean they are good. stop it. SPEED.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#1585 - 2013-07-25 03:29:49 UTC
A HAC is not a brawling ship. A cruiser is playing to non of its strengths when it is webbed, scrammed, heavy neuted. It doesn't have the raw EHP / DPS to live in those kind of environments. Cruiser hulls are meant to be fast, have disengage ability, and have a tank that is based around range control. In order to do that cruisers need speed, and some kind of sig tank. Cruisers are kiters at their core. Brawling in a cruiser sized hull places you in line with BC's / Command ships / Battle ships. All of those ships have huge DPS or EHP advantages over HACs for the same cost (or in the case of BC's) a fraction of the cost.


The HAC needs to have a role bonus that will accentuate the advantages of a cruiser hull in regards to the kiting area. HAC's should not have a role bonus that some how tries to make their cruiser EHP / DPS and cap relevant for brawling. Trying to do that will be trying to force a cruiser hull into a role it was never intended to have.

Here are some role examples if HAC's were to be made into kiters / ranged fighters

Projection bonuses: Allow the Vaga to actually do damage with Medium AC's. I want to drill this point home, because post TE nerf 10% falloff bonus is just not enough with these guns anymore. The projection bonues needs to give HAC's the ability to apply good DPS (Read superior to T1 cruisers / Navy) At 35K+++ With Medium 'short ranged' guns. Blasters on the deimos hull would have to be looked at in this regard. But perhaps something can be done with rails + Deimos hull.
Flat speed boost
MWD / AB speed boost
MWD cap use bonus
MWD Signature reduction bonus (would need to be far more than 50%)

The HAC's could easily make their own role for themselves if they are the final word in a kiting platform. Tier 3 BCs once had this position. However post T1 cruiser / navy cruiser buff- Tier 3 BC's are just so slow. They are unable to pull distance and control range against cruisers. Their inability to do so, severely limites their kiting ability in solo / small gang situations. This is where a specialzed ship could shine. A HAC could be a medium gun based, cruiser platform that specializes in speed, and projection. Allow the HAC to be comfortable flying in and around 35/40K From an enemy fleet, because currently the T1 cruisers / Navy cruisers can only do this job so/so.
JerseyBOI 2
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1586 - 2013-07-25 03:59:29 UTC  |  Edited by: JerseyBOI 2
Chessur wrote:
A HAC is not a brawling ship. A cruiser is playing to non of its strengths when it is webbed, scrammed, heavy neuted. It doesn't have the raw EHP / DPS to live in those kind of environments. Cruiser hulls are meant to be fast, have disengage ability, and have a tank that is based around range control. In order to do that cruisers need speed, and some kind of sig tank. Cruisers are kiters at their core. Brawling in a cruiser sized hull places you in line with BC's / Command ships / Battle ships. All of those ships have huge DPS or EHP advantages over HACs for the same cost (or in the case of BC's) a fraction of the cost.


The HAC needs to have a role bonus that will accentuate the advantages of a cruiser hull in regards to the kiting area. HAC's should not have a role bonus that some how tries to make their cruiser EHP / DPS and cap relevant for brawling. Trying to do that will be trying to force a cruiser hull into a role it was never intended to have.

Here are some role examples if HAC's were to be made into kiters / ranged fighters

Projection bonuses: Allow the Vaga to actually do damage with Medium AC's. I want to drill this point home, because post TE nerf 10% falloff bonus is just not enough with these guns anymore. The projection bonues needs to give HAC's the ability to apply good DPS (Read superior to T1 cruisers / Navy) At 35K+++ With Medium 'short ranged' guns. Blasters on the deimos hull would have to be looked at in this regard. But perhaps something can be done with rails + Deimos hull.
Flat speed boost
MWD / AB speed boost
MWD cap use bonus
MWD Signature reduction bonus (would need to be far more than 50%)

The HAC's could easily make their own role for themselves if they are the final word in a kiting platform. Tier 3 BCs once had this position. However post T1 cruiser / navy cruiser buff- Tier 3 BC's are just so slow. They are unable to pull distance and control range against cruisers. Their inability to do so, severely limites their kiting ability in solo / small gang situations. This is where a specialzed ship could shine. A HAC could be a medium gun based, cruiser platform that specializes in speed, and projection. Allow the HAC to be comfortable flying in and around 35/40K From an enemy fleet, because currently the T1 cruisers / Navy cruisers can only do this job so/so.





Agreed. Lets use a Thorax as an example (a Stabber being extreme though relevant for the Vaga). With no implants, no low slot speed mods, no links, and with MWD it will go, MWD 2000ish / OH 2900ish. So have the Deimos go say...2400ish / OH 3300ish. I mean come'on CCP this is hardly pre nano nerf numbers. **** links scrap them. Even though I know that won't happen they are just power creep.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#1587 - 2013-07-25 04:16:41 UTC
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:
Chessur wrote:
A HAC is not a brawling ship. A cruiser is playing to non of its strengths when it is webbed, scrammed, heavy neuted. It doesn't have the raw EHP / DPS to live in those kind of environments. Cruiser hulls are meant to be fast, have disengage ability, and have a tank that is based around range control. In order to do that cruisers need speed, and some kind of sig tank. Cruisers are kiters at their core. Brawling in a cruiser sized hull places you in line with BC's / Command ships / Battle ships. All of those ships have huge DPS or EHP advantages over HACs for the same cost (or in the case of BC's) a fraction of the cost.


The HAC needs to have a role bonus that will accentuate the advantages of a cruiser hull in regards to the kiting area. HAC's should not have a role bonus that some how tries to make their cruiser EHP / DPS and cap relevant for brawling. Trying to do that will be trying to force a cruiser hull into a role it was never intended to have.

Here are some role examples if HAC's were to be made into kiters / ranged fighters

Projection bonuses: Allow the Vaga to actually do damage with Medium AC's. I want to drill this point home, because post TE nerf 10% falloff bonus is just not enough with these guns anymore. The projection bonues needs to give HAC's the ability to apply good DPS (Read superior to T1 cruisers / Navy) At 35K+++ With Medium 'short ranged' guns. Blasters on the deimos hull would have to be looked at in this regard. But perhaps something can be done with rails + Deimos hull.
Flat speed boost
MWD / AB speed boost
MWD cap use bonus
MWD Signature reduction bonus (would need to be far more than 50%)

The HAC's could easily make their own role for themselves if they are the final word in a kiting platform. Tier 3 BCs once had this position. However post T1 cruiser / navy cruiser buff- Tier 3 BC's are just so slow. They are unable to pull distance and control range against cruisers. Their inability to do so, severely limites their kiting ability in solo / small gang situations. This is where a specialzed ship could shine. A HAC could be a medium gun based, cruiser platform that specializes in speed, and projection. Allow the HAC to be comfortable flying in and around 35/40K From an enemy fleet, because currently the T1 cruisers / Navy cruisers can only do this job so/so.





Agreed. Lets use a Thorax as an example (a Stabber being extreme though relevant for the Vaga). With no implants, no low slot speed mods, no links, and with MWD it will go, MWD 2000ish / OH 2900ish. So have the Deimos go say...2400ish / OH 3300ish. I mean come'on CCP this is hardly pre nano nerf numbers. **** links scrap them. Even though I know that won't happen they are just power creep.


T1 cruisers fit with basic speed implants (read 3% / zors) And with 1/2 nanos can all go over 2400m/s unheated. If your ship can't go faster than that, your not nanoing in this meta.

Navy cruisers, well they are even more insane. With basic speed implants (read 3% / zors) And with 1/2nanos these ships are hitting 3K+ UNHEATED With out links / snakes / quafe.

A HAC needs to be going faster than a T1 cruiser if its going to stay relevant in the kiting arena.
Lixia Saran
Perkone
Caldari State
#1588 - 2013-07-25 05:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Lixia Saran
Please CCP, all I want for christmas is a Core Complexion variant of the Vagabond!!!! (which would actually make way more sense than Thukker Mix with the new shield boost bonus)

edit: typos, lots of typos...
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#1589 - 2013-07-25 05:22:42 UTC
I wonder when we are going to see Round #2 of these changes
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#1590 - 2013-07-25 06:13:11 UTC
some cruisers are fit for brawling. saying that tey're all supposed to kite is just lying to yourself.

so this requires the mandatory "tl;dr drugs are bad" response. learn to eve.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#1591 - 2013-07-25 07:03:48 UTC
Cruisers shouldnt have been made so stupidly fast in the first place, its all fun-ish, but now you get serious issues with everything else being either completely underwhelming slow, or ******* faster than Assault Frigs, if balanced "correctly".

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1592 - 2013-07-25 07:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:
Wow. These ships are not brawlers. When you brawl you either go money, (super pimped insert-->T3, Hyperion, Vindi, Navy Mega, Maelstrom, links, pills, etc...) or you go cheap (insert-->Brutix, Vexor, Thorax, Maller, Prophecy, lol links, lol pills, etc.. ) you get the point. This is EVE 2013. Gangs are now considered <50, everyone is baiting, 9 outta 10 you wont be able to disengage. If this is your playstyle your a fool to use HACS. Not the tankiest, not the cheapest. Just because FLEETS use AHACS to great effect doesn't mean they are good. stop it. SPEED.

So you want to neuter Eve's fragile evolution by making design decisions based on the current meta-game, thus ensuring that it will remain for far longer than it deserves? How was that good for the game again? Big smile

You said it yourself, one uses the tool one is most likely to succeed with at a given task, you did not however say why HACs should be the tool of choice in all but the blobbiest environs (ie. old nano meta).
Any "new" ship should be made with the intent of wanting to 'shake things up' and allow for the meta-game to evolve as fast as feasibly possible .. the tier3's, in all their broken glory, actually managed to do that: Went from sniping to range augmented short range to MJD'ing BS counters to ..

If I was a naval architect I'd want distinct but complimentary designs (using Amarr as examples only).
Role/Class bonus: Cruiser sized MJD (half spool/cycle, 75km vs. 100km) will be a much better role/class bonus than the nonsensical MWD sig reduction (unless increased to 100% Big smile)

1. Projection and raw survivability; Zealot with a lower signature, bigger EHP/Cap pool, lower (yes, LOWER) speed and better tracking (ie. lower speed/signature, increase sensors/cap and replace cap bonus with tracking).
- Nestle it with the fleet proper and prevent anything smaller than a BC from threatening the primary assets.
- Good in blobs but vulnerable if solo or in homogenous small gangs (<10-15).

2. Fast interdiction, long arm of an angry God; Sacrilege with more damage, more speed but smaller EHP pool and better "small crowd" control, ex. neut amount bonus.
- Anything that stays clear of the fleet (and the nestled projection platforms) while still representing a threat is what these reach out and touch.
- Good solo and in small gangs but vulnerable en masse due to low'ish EHP numbers.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1593 - 2013-07-25 08:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kane Fenris
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Akturous wrote:

Kiting with autocannons is for scrubs. Artillery is perfect for kiting, seriously what's wrong with you.

...surely you're joking
Gah even I'm doing it now.


With autocannons there is at least a chance of hitting anything closer than 30km.



thats why i said the ship needed to drop falloff for a excessive tracking bonus (maybe to arty excluesive so it does not get abused).



btw a MJD on anything than a BS would comepletely ruin their purpose on BS

so HELL NO MJD on anything than bs PLZ!
Christopher Multsanti
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#1594 - 2013-07-25 08:10:43 UTC
Chessur wrote:
A HAC is not a brawling ship. A cruiser is playing to non of its strengths when it is webbed, scrammed, heavy neuted. It doesn't have the raw EHP / DPS to live in those kind of environments. Cruiser hulls are meant to be fast, have disengage ability, and have a tank that is based around range control. In order to do that cruisers need speed, and some kind of sig tank. Cruisers are kiters at their core. Brawling in a cruiser sized hull places you in line with BC's / Command ships / Battle ships. All of those ships have huge DPS or EHP advantages over HACs for the same cost (or in the case of BC's) a fraction of the cost.


The HAC needs to have a role bonus that will accentuate the advantages of a cruiser hull in regards to the kiting area. HAC's should not have a role bonus that some how tries to make their cruiser EHP / DPS and cap relevant for brawling. Trying to do that will be trying to force a cruiser hull into a role it was never intended to have.

Here are some role examples if HAC's were to be made into kiters / ranged fighters

Projection bonuses: Allow the Vaga to actually do damage with Medium AC's. I want to drill this point home, because post TE nerf 10% falloff bonus is just not enough with these guns anymore. The projection bonues needs to give HAC's the ability to apply good DPS (Read superior to T1 cruisers / Navy) At 35K+++ With Medium 'short ranged' guns. Blasters on the deimos hull would have to be looked at in this regard. But perhaps something can be done with rails + Deimos hull.
Flat speed boost
MWD / AB speed boost
MWD cap use bonus
MWD Signature reduction bonus (would need to be far more than 50%)

The HAC's could easily make their own role for themselves if they are the final word in a kiting platform. Tier 3 BCs once had this position. However post T1 cruiser / navy cruiser buff- Tier 3 BC's are just so slow. They are unable to pull distance and control range against cruisers. Their inability to do so, severely limites their kiting ability in solo / small gang situations. This is where a specialzed ship could shine. A HAC could be a medium gun based, cruiser platform that specializes in speed, and projection. Allow the HAC to be comfortable flying in and around 35/40K From an enemy fleet, because currently the T1 cruisers / Navy cruisers can only do this job so/so.



You are very much incorrect in every way. And forcing all HACS to be kiters is just insane.

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1595 - 2013-07-25 08:20:42 UTC
Anxiously awaiting round two...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1596 - 2013-07-25 09:44:36 UTC
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Chessur wrote:
A HAC is not a brawling ship. A cruiser is playing to non of its strengths when it is webbed, scrammed, heavy neuted. It doesn't have the raw EHP / DPS to live in those kind of environments. Cruiser hulls are meant to be fast, have disengage ability, and have a tank that is based around range control. In order to do that cruisers need speed, and some kind of sig tank. Cruisers are kiters at their core. Brawling in a cruiser sized hull places you in line with BC's / Command ships / Battle ships. All of those ships have huge DPS or EHP advantages over HACs for the same cost (or in the case of BC's) a fraction of the cost.


The HAC needs to have a role bonus that will accentuate the advantages of a cruiser hull in regards to the kiting area. HAC's should not have a role bonus that some how tries to make their cruiser EHP / DPS and cap relevant for brawling. Trying to do that will be trying to force a cruiser hull into a role it was never intended to have.

Here are some role examples if HAC's were to be made into kiters / ranged fighters

Projection bonuses: Allow the Vaga to actually do damage with Medium AC's. I want to drill this point home, because post TE nerf 10% falloff bonus is just not enough with these guns anymore. The projection bonues needs to give HAC's the ability to apply good DPS (Read superior to T1 cruisers / Navy) At 35K+++ With Medium 'short ranged' guns. Blasters on the deimos hull would have to be looked at in this regard. But perhaps something can be done with rails + Deimos hull.
Flat speed boost
MWD / AB speed boost
MWD cap use bonus
MWD Signature reduction bonus (would need to be far more than 50%)

The HAC's could easily make their own role for themselves if they are the final word in a kiting platform. Tier 3 BCs once had this position. However post T1 cruiser / navy cruiser buff- Tier 3 BC's are just so slow. They are unable to pull distance and control range against cruisers. Their inability to do so, severely limites their kiting ability in solo / small gang situations. This is where a specialzed ship could shine. A HAC could be a medium gun based, cruiser platform that specializes in speed, and projection. Allow the HAC to be comfortable flying in and around 35/40K From an enemy fleet, because currently the T1 cruisers / Navy cruisers can only do this job so/so.



You are very much incorrect in every way. And forcing all HACS to be kiters is just insane.


and forcing them all to be snipers and brawlers is insane and a waste of a class .. kiting is the only purpose left for tis class of ship

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1597 - 2013-07-25 09:45:38 UTC
just noticed that the Eagle still got TWO 10% optimal range boni. Shouldn't that one be a single 20% bonus?

Remember that concept of tags, like cheap, fast, resilent, raw dps, projetion, ewar - and t1 ships pick some including cheap, t2 picking some less, but powerful variations. Two 10% Boni to that are a recurring situation from the BS rebalance: Hyperion/Tempest. One get's a 10% bonus + local rep, while the other gets two boni worth about as much as one of the others.

Mean, the hull will in smallscale-scenarios still be picked - if at all - for those 15km range with null, which happens to be around linked web/scram-range.

More things I didn't see yet:

hull affecting the signature resolution (anti-tackle)
hull affecting the mass penalty of propmods (could make a vgabond viable agilitywise compared to a cynabal while mwd'ing)
Zamyslinski
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#1598 - 2013-07-25 09:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Zamyslinski
almost all changes looks pretty good imo,

but still there 4 things to do:

ishtar - buff cpu
Zealot - give it 25m3 dronebay
Vaga - need a nerf ( lol out of cap boosters lemme just gtfo) and another bonus (dual damage bonus perhaps to compete with cynabal which is going to be buffed later anyway)
All HAC - speed rised to their t1 equivalent except the vaga (speed is ok) and Deimos (huge speed buff is needed)
raawe
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1599 - 2013-07-25 09:58:45 UTC
Please stop it with the MJD already. Not going to happen. Figure our slots, give nice bonuses to justify it's price and they are good to go. Also not every ship needs to have drone bay. Some of them could instead have bonus to smart bomb, range or something since there are now lots of drone dedicated platforms
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1600 - 2013-07-25 10:14:56 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Akturous wrote:

Kiting with autocannons is for scrubs. Artillery is perfect for kiting, seriously what's wrong with you.

...surely you're joking
Gah even I'm doing it now.


With autocannons there is at least a chance of hitting anything closer than 30km.



thats why i said the ship needed to drop falloff for a excessive tracking bonus (maybe to arty excluesive so it does not get abused).



btw a MJD on anything than a BS would comepletely ruin their purpose on BS

so HELL NO MJD on anything than bs PLZ!


get out of the thread... very very far. DO nto touch THE MEDIUM AC ship.. also known as Vagabond. Anyoen using arties on it should have all its skills wiped.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"