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"The Empires are losing their grasp on power." - What If...?

Author
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#21 - 2013-07-24 23:41:56 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Oh there's a cake alright.

I know it exists because it appears that everybody wants to have that cake and eat it too.


The cake is a lie, and it needs to be nerfed. Cake is way OP.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#22 - 2013-07-25 00:08:41 UTC
Ruvin, you do realize Tony G no longer writes EVE lore for a reason, right?
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#23 - 2013-07-25 11:31:27 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

As for incursions by players into highsec... that's funny. Highsec players are making incursions into nullsec. Yet there's no concord to stop them.

So it's kind of funny, and showing how much like sheep people are. They join some nullsec alliance and get bored, and then they come up with these "emergent" ideas in highsec. They would be having more fun (if they were not sheep) staying in highsec and making incursions into nullsec.


Somebody has an unhealthy fascination with sheep...

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

applejacks34 Applecrack
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#24 - 2013-07-25 12:21:39 UTC
Wait.... Is there an ACTUAL degree in Political Science? I thought that was a joke?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2013-07-25 12:48:54 UTC
applejacks34 Applecrack wrote:
Wait.... Is there an ACTUAL degree in Political Science? I thought that was a joke?


It kinda is to employers.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#26 - 2013-07-25 13:35:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
applejacks34 Applecrack wrote:
Wait.... Is there an ACTUAL degree in Political Science? I thought that was a joke?


It kinda is to employers.


Yet a lot of them still end up being politicians and then in charge of stuff Cry
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-07-25 16:48:03 UTC
Jason Itiner wrote:
Ever since I saw the Odyssey trailer, this one sentence has been bugging me.

a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. Ever since CONCORD was created to be the enforcer, the empires lost their monopoly on violence, and with it, the majority of their political power.


The monoploy on violence is indeed how all governments hold power but that doesn't make it legitimate.
From the arab spring to the american supression for the 99%'ers to bloody sunday to endless examples. The monopoly on violence and the way it interacts with "power tends to corrupt" is why a ruling elite is always undesirable and why direct democracy aka anarchy (from the greek meaning without leaders) is the only solution.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#28 - 2013-07-25 19:53:51 UTC
applejacks34 Applecrack wrote:
Wait.... Is there an ACTUAL degree in Political Science? I thought that was a joke?


To be honest, political science was just one of the subjects I had to study. The degree proper is in International Relations, aka Diplomacy.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#29 - 2013-07-25 20:27:31 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
Ever since I saw the Odyssey trailer, this one sentence has been bugging me.

a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. Ever since CONCORD was created to be the enforcer, the empires lost their monopoly on violence, and with it, the majority of their political power.


The monoploy on violence is indeed how all governments hold power but that doesn't make it legitimate.
From the arab spring to the american supression for the 99%'ers to bloody sunday to endless examples. The monopoly on violence and the way it interacts with "power tends to corrupt" is why a ruling elite is always undesirable and why direct democracy aka anarchy (from the greek meaning without leaders) is the only solution.


Actually, anarchy and democracy were two quite different concepts in Hellas. What they called "democracia", literally meaning "Rule of the People" was when the polis population (actually the men above 20) gathered on the market square, and didn't disperse until a solution that catered to everyone's interests was achieved, or at the very least, until nobody had counter-arguments. In Politeia, Plato draws up opposites, such as aristocracy (Rule of the Elite) and oligarchy (Rule of the Privileged). Here, democracy has the curious property of being its own opposite, in that democracy can also mean the tyranny of the majority over the minority, something that was unthinkable in a Hellenic democracy, but is the basis of the representative democracy practiced today.

As for the question of legitimate violence, that concept dates all the way back to Hobbes. He postulated that humans, left to their own devices, are incapable of forming stable groups and eventually, societies, due to selfishness. This means that everyone tries to maximize their own interests, regardless of others', leading to what he termed homo homini lupus est, meaning "Man is man's wolf [predator]". Since humans are also intelligent, they realize this, and form the social contract, partially relinquishing their right to protect their own interests, and creating an entity above themselves to protect each individual's interests in the interest of the entire group. To function, this entity (be it the king, the parliament, or the Alliance CEO) places restrictions on the use of violence, declaring that it alone can have the power to employ violence against any member of the group (or even outsiders), and whoever breaks this rule will be punished accordingly. Thus, in a bit of a tautology, the monopoly on violence makes this monopoly legitimate in itself.
I've followed the events of the Arab Spring closely (out of professional and academic interest as well). In each case, violence erupted only after peaceful protests were dispersed by force, admittedly after breaches of local laws (usually by not notifying the authorities before, infringing on private property, or similar). On the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen (if memory serves me right), an agreement was reached with the king, the he will stay in power, but no successor will be appointed after his death/abdication; in this way, the protests ended peacefully. Similarly, the 99%-ers encountered forceful response after breaching laws regarding public assembly, usually by obstructing traffic or infringing on property. In the Occupiers case, the response was proportionate to the infringements and the resistance, meaning little or no actual violence was used, except in cases where protesters violently resisted removal or arrest themselves - discounting the University of California Davis incident, which became widely known as the ""Casually pepper spray everything" cop", who, to the best of my knowledge, has since gained his just reward, being dismissed from service dishonorably.
Mellisa Jade
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-07-30 18:27:51 UTC
Please God let them mean they are removing highsec and replacing it all with lowsec. Maybe just keep the trade hubs and newb nursery systems as highsec.

At this stage i doubt theres many *real new players* comming into the game anyhow. Its mostly all existing players with new or secondary or tertiary etc accounts.

_'Time is to eternity, as the mind is to what surrounds us.' _

Mellisa Jade
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-07-30 18:30:32 UTC
As an after thought perhaps they could make it so that highsec territory is defined by Faction warfare territorial gains.

So that if you have standings with Amarr, for instance, then any Amarr militia held systems will be highsec for you but only for Amarr citizens.

_'Time is to eternity, as the mind is to what surrounds us.' _

Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#32 - 2013-07-30 19:23:17 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I see this will be our weekly 'Highsec unite / Herding cats" thread.


I see it more as a "low / null sec unite to kill carebears and take their things"

And that sounds pretty good to me.
Enraku Reynolt
Of Tears and ISK
#33 - 2013-07-30 22:33:20 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
Because owning all of null sec just isn't enough.



that's the rub
all of null sec has never been under the control of one entity
if that happened, AND they could hold it together ( and face it, the current largest group goonswarm forms at first just to wreck that sort of thing, its why Im surprised they are actually holding turf now)
then maybe they could take on a empire

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