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CCP Why do nothing about ISBoxer
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Mary Kingsley
#1 - 2013-07-24 16:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mary Kingsley
http://www.twitch.tv/zbezz/b/435055648


How can ccp look the other way .
This has to be wrong
Ripley13
Scrub Fleet
#2 - 2013-07-24 17:01:35 UTC
I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing. The same can be done even without isboxer, just takes a tad bit more effort with having several more monitors set up. Like this guy: https://sites.google.com/site/khromtor/
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#3 - 2013-07-24 17:16:16 UTC
ripley13, don't feed the troll. there are hundreds of threads about this.
ccp stated clear, that if you don't do something not wanted by the terms of use, you can use this software.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#4 - 2013-07-25 04:47:10 UTC
Mary Kingsley wrote:
http://www.twitch.tv/zbezz/b/435055648


How can ccp look the other way .
This has to be wrong


Then explain why or GTFO.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#5 - 2013-07-25 04:58:56 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Then explain why or GTFO.


It's generally bad for a game if third party software gives some players a huge advantage (automated or not). The Eve community has such a dense developer/IT component that CCP can get away with semi-integrated third party tools, but the OP's intuition is fairly reasonable given that almost every other game takes a stricter stance.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#6 - 2013-07-25 05:19:20 UTC
If isboxing is so OP, do it too and stop crying.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#7 - 2013-07-25 07:12:27 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Then explain why or GTFO.


It's generally bad for a game if third party software gives some players a huge advantage (automated or not). The Eve community has such a dense developer/IT component that CCP can get away with semi-integrated third party tools, but the OP's intuition is fairly reasonable given that almost every other game takes a stricter stance.


Whats the advantage?

10 way split with 10x the loot is 1x rate of gain.

It gives CCP 9 extra subs.





internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Colonel Hans Landa
JAV Hunting Guild and Preservation Society
#8 - 2013-07-25 11:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Colonel Hans Landa
S Byerley wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Then explain why or GTFO.


It's generally bad for a game if third party software gives some players a huge advantage (automated or not). The Eve community has such a dense developer/IT component that CCP can get away with semi-integrated third party tools, but the OP's intuition is fairly reasonable given that almost every other game takes a stricter stance.


What, you mean like World of Warcraft?

No. You are wrong. There is a an infamous player (and a handful like him exist) who multiboxes 40+ accounts at a time and completely locks down PvP areas for the opposite faction. I can't be bothered finding you a twitch link but trust me he exists and also used to stream his activites on the regular. Blizzard are completely happy to allow this, who, like CCP, also have a very strict and no tolerance policy when it comes to "hacks", exploits, bots and all other sorts of illegitimate activities against the TOS.

I personally see no problem with it, as long as nothing is automated. It takes a bit of research and practice to get your Isboxer setup running efficiently and well, and there is no automation whatsoever.
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-07-25 12:06:47 UTC
He still pays 40 accounts and have to click. No botting in that

Ride hard, live with passion 
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#10 - 2013-07-25 14:10:01 UTC
besides that
an equal fleet on numbers easily kills the 40+ multiboxer.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#11 - 2013-07-25 14:21:46 UTC
Charadrass wrote:
besides that
an equal fleet on numbers easily kills the 40+ multiboxer.


Unless its a 40+ multibox alpha fleet.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Shave Well
PT RESEARCH INSTITUTE
#12 - 2013-07-25 14:41:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Shave Well
ISBoxer and macros a gray area that CCP neglects

Both, with 1 click can do multiple actions automatically: ISBoxer do it simultaneously on several selected pre-defined accounts, macros do it for a certain amount of time and have to be called on any selected account you want to run it. Very few diferences, for the same result: automation, less click stress. First is not against the rules, but the second is.Ugh The major difference is macros can be run while player is afk and ISBoxer needs a human in front of PC as far as i know

CCP wants ele online players to be social, however they permit the use of programs like ISBoxer (insert shock face).

Finally, the only reasons i can figure to the legality of this program are: they can't detect it (yet) or they want to catch the remaining bot users that still use ISBoxer on their bot programs
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#13 - 2013-07-25 19:01:04 UTC
Shave Well wrote:

Finally, the only reasons i can figure to the legality of this program are: they can't detect it (yet) or they want to catch the remaining bot users that still use ISBoxer on their bot programs

CCP supports the use of multiboxers because for every guy running 20 accounts, they're getting paid 20 times over. THey've supported ISBoxing specifically for years now; this is not something that will be going away any time soon.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2013-07-25 20:35:12 UTC
Shave Well wrote:
ISBoxer and macros a gray area that CCP neglects

Both, with 1 click can do multiple actions automatically: ISBoxer do it simultaneously on several selected pre-defined accounts, macros do it for a certain amount of time and have to be called on any selected account you want to run it. Very few diferences, for the same result: automation, less click stress. First is not against the rules, but the second is.Ugh The major difference is macros can be run while player is afk and ISBoxer needs a human in front of PC as far as i know

CCP wants ele online players to be social, however they permit the use of programs like ISBoxer (insert shock face).

Finally, the only reasons i can figure to the legality of this program are: they can't detect it (yet) or they want to catch the remaining bot users that still use ISBoxer on their bot programs


Less button clicks aren't against the eula, gaining things and a disproportionate rate are.

Example ; You have a macro keyboard. You set it up to do the pseudo covert ops cloak trick that can be done manually quite easily. You are not gaining anything except not having to do the same repetitive motions. That's legal.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#15 - 2013-07-25 21:09:26 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Colonel Hans Landa wrote:
What, you mean like World of Warcraft?

No. You are wrong. There is a an infamous player (and a handful like him exist) who multiboxes 40+ accounts at a time and completely locks down PvP areas for the opposite faction. I can't be bothered finding you a twitch link but trust me he exists and also used to stream his activites on the regular. Blizzard are completely happy to allow this, who, like CCP, also have a very strict and no tolerance policy when it comes to "hacks", exploits, bots and all other sorts of illegitimate activities against the TOS.


WoW is a terrible example and it doesn't even support your point. ISBoxer falls under the "we can ban you for 3rd party software if we feel like it" bit of their EULA. Similarly, Blizzard's official stance is:

"some behavior of multiboxers can be reported"

Which translates to: "We'll ban you for it if you're pissing people off"

There are numerous instances, for example, of people ISBoxing most of a group and getting banned for pissing people off (by virtue of ISBoxer because it's fairly inefficient) in the auto-group-thingy-queue.

Colonel Hans Landa wrote:
I personally see no problem with it, as long as nothing is automated. It takes a bit of research and practice to get your Isboxer setup running efficiently and well, and there is no automation whatsoever.



You're stretching the definition of automation preeeeeeeetty darn thin. Is it not botting if I restrict the program up to only send a batch of actions to the server when I hit a key/move the mouse? I wouldn't mind making some ISK while I write a paper/browse the intraweb/play another game/ect. Heck, I'm at the keyboard almost 23/7 anyway.

Cipher Jones wrote:
Whats the advantage?

10 way split with 10x the loot is 1x rate of gain.

It gives CCP 9 extra subs.


Obviously, 10x manpower doesn't equate to 10x loot. I mean, the posted video is of soloing incursions. I'm all ears if you can't teach me to run incursions efficiently in a solo apoc.

He's also presumably buying PLEX with all the incursion money. I don't feel like having a bad economics discussion, but buying 9x PLEX does NOT directly equate to paying CCP 9x subscriptions.

(to reiterate: I have no problem with ISBoxer in Eve, but these arguments are terribad)
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#16 - 2013-07-25 21:58:55 UTC
i actually buying gtc for my 20+ accounts.
my Impact on the market is Zero, on the contrary.

so go on with your flames.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#17 - 2013-07-25 22:46:16 UTC
Charadrass wrote:
i actually buying gtc for my 20+ accounts.
my Impact on the market is Zero, on the contrary.

so go on with your flames.


I know this isn't strictly an English speaking game and I try not to insult people based on their 2nd language, but I have no idea what you were trying to write.
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#18 - 2013-07-25 23:22:42 UTC
Google translator is able to understand my bad english.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-07-26 00:09:51 UTC
One guy is doing what whole "incursion alliances" refuse to do as a result of being giant pussies

Art of Explosions
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#20 - 2013-07-26 00:30:10 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Then explain why or GTFO.


It's generally bad for a game if third party software gives some players a huge advantage (automated or not). The Eve community has such a dense developer/IT component that CCP can get away with semi-integrated third party tools, but the OP's intuition is fairly reasonable given that almost every other game takes a stricter stance.


Whats the advantage?

10 way split with 10x the loot is 1x rate of gain.

It gives CCP 9 extra subs.



Presuming he makes 70mil/character and plays 10 hours a week at it, he'll be seeing ~30bil a month, with a bit over 5bil / mo costs if plexing the characters.

Consider it currently the same as holding 10 R64s for the month.
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