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Crime & Punishment

 
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First rule of EVE... or how I was swindled.

Author
Mina Allas-Rui
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-07-23 03:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Allas-Rui
I played EVE once... like 7 years ago... for about a week. I found the game promising but ultimately hard to play, especial with WORLDZ OF WARCAFT!1! to sate my younger self.

During the Steam sale though, I picked EVE back up. Why not give it another shot, I thought.

Because I didn't exactly understand the steam linking, I accidentally made *two* accounts (my Steam one and another trial one) and spent the first full day playing my trial account. As soon as I realized what happened, I decided to simply play with two accounts. I mean... why not. At least then I can escort myself during mining.

But I wanted some "starter funds" and decided to go ahead and buy a PLEX (well a 3 pack actually) to sell for ISK.

So I buy my PLEX and while I'm waiting for delivery make the 17 jump trip to Jita in a starter ship.

Finally, I collect my PLEX and excitedly check the market, ready to be on my way to the world of EVE.

Wait, what? Oh that's right. To list on the market I need the deposit fee. Well I'll just sell to a matched buyer... it's only 9 million less and... wait, WHAT!? On a matched buyer, even though you're guaranteed an instant purchase, you need to front the deposit? It can't come from the sale?

Well... that sucks. Maybe I'll look into what these contract things are... well crap. They require upfront deposit as well and the deposit is actually higher.

So here I am, needing at least 5.5 million ISK to sell my PLEX, and only 700K ISK in my wallet. Maybe there's someone in Jita local with a contract? Nope, all those are scams. Man, I wonder who falls for those anyway?

So I post in Jita local, explaining that I'll pay 10 million ISK to anyone who can front the listing fee for my PLEX, and I'm willing to discuss what sorts of guarantees would be comfortable.

Lo and behold, someone private chats me. They seem pretty friendly, but I'm nervous. First rule: trust no one.

He doesn't want to front the ISK to me because I don't have comparable collateral. While setting off alarm bells, it's also reasonable...

So I ask him for collateral if I trade him the PLEX to list. We agree, he gives me three implants supposedly worth 500 million. I check market values before I agree, but I can't find a decent price for them. I'm wary but... I'm also eager. I just want to dump this PLEX for ISK and start on my way.

I do the trade.

We chat in a friendly way while the listing sits and he says "read my bio, it's pretty good". I pull up his bio and see some links, but don't click on them. Quirky innocuous text.

We keep chatting, and the PLEX sells, so I start going over what his fee is. He goes, "Yeah, but there's one problem. You haven't read my bio yet have you?"

I get a sinking feeling. I know what just happened. Never the less, I open his bio again, and click on the first link.

This pops up: http://puu.sh/3GT2S

Well... that sucks.

"You're going to keep it then," I say.

"Let this be a lesson," he says to me. "Never trust anyone."

I'm... a bit upset. In any other setting he just stole $20 of my *actual* money, and it would be a criminal thing. But... this is how EVE works. I'm sure I could rage, and I could complain, and I could petition a GM, and maybe even get my $20 of hard earned cash back. But then I chuckle. That was masterful, that was.

So instead I bid him goodbye, find someone who I *can* trust, and sell one of the remaining two PLEX. As promised to the first person I dealt with, the person who actually fronted me the ISK gets back 10 million on a 6 million loan after 30 seconds. No reason I can't be trustworthy.

But then, I start to think. Raging isn't super appropriate, and doesn't really help... but this game... this game has bounties, and that's actually a great system to deal with this.

Unbeknownst to the gentleman that taught me a lesson, I actually work a very good job, and have hundreds of dollars of disposable income per month. So I decide that with my next pay check I'm putting up a 2 billion ISK bounty on top of the 112 million ISK bounty already on his head. [EDIT: As pointed out below, this probably wasn't a brilliant idea either, and I decided against it.]

Some people look at stuff like this and feel like in the end, only CCP wins, because I bought the first PLEX, and then I'll buy several more to place the bounty. But this guy, he wins too, because he's a starway swindler, probably having an awesome time testing his wit and charisma against other people. And me, I win too, because despite losing money, I get to play in a game that's so immersive and with such a strong community that I can actually have a genuine desire to pour that kind of money into it.

As frustrating as it was to be swindled, when I knew that I wasn't *that* gullible or naive, I can't help but feel like it's things like this, the risk of *genuine* losses, that make EVE so fun to play.
Interagent
Parandrus
#2 - 2013-07-23 03:56:23 UTC
Now, before you go all out on the bounties, consider this.
Who in their right mind would use their main characters to swindle someone? Most of them are alts that are used only for scams in Jita. They never leave the station, and if they do, its usually in a worthless noob ship.

You may be doing a service for the rest of the community...(having a 2b bounty on someone really shows how trustworthy he is)..so you may damage his business...but even then he can just delete the char and use another one.

If you really want to damage him, you will have to find his main.....and I do not see how you can do that.
Phoenix Einherjar
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-07-23 03:59:45 UTC
Mina Allas-Rui wrote:
Unbeknownst to the gentleman that taught me a lesson, I actually work a very good job, and have hundreds of dollars of disposable income per month. So I decide that with my next pay check I'm putting up a 2 billion ISK bounty on top of the 112 million ISK bounty already on his head.


Good on you for taking the loss so well, but regardless of how much disposable income you have, please do not waste it by putting a 2b bounty on him. Bounties are essentially worthless in this game, and he will take it as the biggest compliment if you do bounty him that much.

Instead, you should take that 2b and buy some suicide ships and gank his ass if he ever undocks

[URL=http://paradoxicalhonour.blogspot.com]Paradoxical Honour (blog)[/URL]

Mina Allas-Rui
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-07-23 04:04:42 UTC
Interagent wrote:
Now, before you go all out on the bounties, consider this.
Who in their right mind would use their main characters to swindle someone? Most of them are alts that are used only for scams in Jita. They never leave the station, and if they do, its usually in a worthless noob ship.

You may be doing a service for the rest of the community...(having a 2b bounty on someone really shows how trustworthy he is)..so you may damage his business...but even then he can just delete the char and use another one.

If you really want to damage him, you will have to find his main.....and I do not see how you can do that.


A fair point. I might have to rethink that.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-07-23 04:10:29 UTC
Interagent wrote:
Now, before you go all out on the bounties, consider this.
Who in their right mind would use their main characters to swindle someone?


This guyBig smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-07-23 04:10:36 UTC
Mina Allas-Rui wrote:
I played EVE once... like 7 years ago... for about a week. I found the game promising but ultimately hard to play, especial with WORLDZ OF WARCAFT!1! to sate my younger self.

During the Steam sale though, I picked EVE back up. Why not give it another shot, I thought.

Because I didn't exactly understand the steam linking, I accidentally made *two* accounts (my Steam one and another trial one) and spent the first full day playing my trial account. As soon as I realized what happened, I decided to simply play with two accounts. I mean... why not. At least then I can escort myself during mining.

But I wanted some "starter funds" and decided to go ahead and buy a PLEX (well a 3 pack actually) to sell for ISK.

So I buy my PLEX and while I'm waiting for delivery make the 17 jump trip to Jita in a starter ship.

Finally, I collect my PLEX and excitedly check the market, ready to be on my way to the world of EVE.

Wait, what? Oh that's right. To list on the market I need the deposit fee. Well I'll just sell to a matched buyer... it's only 9 million less and... wait, WHAT!? On a matched buyer, even though you're guaranteed an instant purchase, you need to front the deposit? It can't come from the sale?

Well... that sucks. Maybe I'll look into what these contract things are... well crap. They require upfront deposit as well and the deposit is actually higher.

So here I am, needing at least 5.5 million ISK to sell my PLEX, and only 700K ISK in my wallet. Maybe there's someone in Jita local with a contract? Nope, all those are scams. Man, I wonder who falls for those anyway?

So I post in Jita local, explaining that I'll pay 10 million ISK to anyone who can front the listing fee for my PLEX, and I'm willing to discuss what sorts of guarantees would be comfortable.

Lo and behold, someone private chats me. They seem pretty friendly, but I'm nervous. First rule: trust no one.

He doesn't want to front the ISK to me because I don't have comparable collateral. While setting off alarm bells, it's also reasonable...

So I ask him for collateral if I trade him the PLEX to list. We agree, he gives me three implants supposedly worth 500 million. I check market values before I agree, but I can't find a decent price for them. I'm wary but... I'm also eager. I just want to dump this PLEX for ISK and start on my way.

I do the trade.



That is where i stopped reading, though lesson learned right..

A True Champion of High Security Space

Relego
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-07-23 04:59:14 UTC
If you need a productive way to spend that much isk, I can, for a fee, help teach you the ins and outs of a lot of the criminal element. Send me an eve mail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os5TXyJlEMc

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#8 - 2013-07-23 08:32:16 UTC
You seem to have a very good outlook that will do you well in Eve. (i'm talking about the non-raging and the desire to get revenge).

However: As other people have said, do not place that bounty. The scammer will only see it as more 'win' for himself.

The best thing for you to do is not give him that satisfaction, learn the lesson and don't rage.
Continue learning Eve, enjoy playing and set some time aside to plot your revenge. (it may be possible)

Welcome to Eve....
Fly safe!

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-07-23 08:35:40 UTC
Don't waste the isk on bounty. If you want to make a (silly) point use the isk for mercs or your own ganks. But a better lesson would be to recognize the personal gain to be found fleecing those who were once in your place. Then you can be a teacher of lessons.

An eve tutor in asset management.
Sylphy
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
#10 - 2013-07-23 08:35:59 UTC
You'd do more good with those 2bil isk to:
a) give them to induhviduals who you think need it the most in small increments of a few milion.
b) fund my Jump Freighter
c) save the money for yourself
d) save the money for your own ships
e) safe the money for your own skillbooks

Bounties are a load of crap. You could have a 1 trillion of a bounty and someone pops your noob ship/pod and they get basically nothing.

Spend the 2 Bil for something that will last longer and won't be wasted on a bounty.

The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.

Kara Corvinus
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-07-23 11:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Corvinus
Befriend him, join his corp, talk to him on Teamspeak, build up a bond of trust,
Find out his mains name over time,
Then pay one of the many lovely Merc corps on this forums 2b isk to go repeatedly teach him a lesson.

Sit back, get a beer, and once hes been podded a few times, let him know it was all you.

Revenge.

and if you think that's over the top, check out what this guy did when he lost his merlin.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I

p.s. Welcome to EvE :)
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#12 - 2013-07-23 19:27:19 UTC

Don't feel bad, even Greedy Goblin was scammed by the very same person who got you.

Here's the link:

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2012/08/new-scam-contract-margin-trade-scam-and.html

Lux has invented quite a few Eve scams including the famed plex box.

You should know, however, that not everything in Jita is a scam. Take me for instance. I took the scam of isk doubling and turned it into an honest game with rules. Next time you find yourself with some spare isk, give my game a try.

Good luck and fly safe.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2013-07-23 22:22:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
If a PLEX is all you lose in your eve career and teaches you a valuable lesson count yourself very fortunate op. I have scammed entire Alliances many times over the value of a single PLEX in my travels and my alts so for others the lesson is more costly.

I will say one small quip in regards of trusting no one. It is true yet in the end (if you are lucky) you will develop close friendships and bonds that last with others long after even a corp or alliance exists. Never forget that and never forsake those whom may actually call you friend.

Blood after all is thicker than water. Or isk. There are friends of mine I would not betray even for all the isk in Eve. Because there comes a point where isk becomes a tool. Merely a means to enable to do things in Eve you want. And that isn't worth burning relationships over especially if it isn't in your best interest.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2013-07-23 22:45:29 UTC
Confirming that I am the main of the alt who scammed you. Please do not place the bounty on me, for it will ruin my reputation!

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance

Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#15 - 2013-07-23 23:32:08 UTC
Mina Allas-Rui wrote:
I'm... a bit upset. In any other setting he just stole $20 of my *actual* money, and it would be a criminal thing. But... this is how EVE works. I'm sure I could rage, and I could complain, and I could petition a GM, and maybe even get my $20 of hard earned cash back.

Nope.

Once bought, the in-game item has no cash value and is actually the property of CCP, along with everything else you have in-game; as agreed when you ticked the check box on the terms & conditions.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

Donovan Draknevov
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-07-24 00:10:25 UTC
Kara Corvinus wrote:
Befriend him, join his corp, talk to him on Teamspeak, build up a bond of trust,
Find out his mains name over time,
Then pay one of the many lovely Merc corps on this forums 2b isk to go repeatedly teach him a lesson.

Sit back, get a beer, and once hes been podded a few times, let him know it was all you.

Revenge.

and if you think that's over the top, check out what this guy did when he lost his merlin.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I

p.s. Welcome to EvE :)


Never, EVER mess with the Merlin. Those pilots are CRAZY Shocked

I'm gonna repeat pretty much what everyone else here has: Props on you for not raging, and taking it as well as possible.

Trust in the Rust

Lux Marquis
Shipyard Trading Co.
#17 - 2013-07-24 01:41:23 UTC
First of all, I just want to say that you're an excellent writer. I feel like you captured the essence of our conversation with clarity and poise. Blink

Secondly, thank you for not being one of the many butthurts. You look at EVE as an adventure worth seizing (like me) and if more people did that, there would be a lot less tears.


And don't forget the end of our conversation. I stand by what I said. And I bet many others do too:

[ 2013.07.22 04:56:11 ] Lux Marquis > think of this as the best learning experience you've had yet in eve
[ 2013.07.22 04:56:22 ] Lux Marquis > this is FAR more valuable than any of the tutorials
[ 2013.07.22 04:56:29 ] Mina Allas-Rui > yeah, im sure thats how you think of it


Good luck and fly safe!
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#18 - 2013-07-24 14:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Mina Allas-Rui wrote:

wall of text

i would say, you already lost isk by making a mistake (and i would say, consider this the price of your learning), and you are just about to commit a 2nd mistake.

the "principle" of bounty seems appealing, but in reality, this will just be more isk thrawn by the window.

he is probably an alt, or even if he's a main, he will never undock, or undock witha shuttle + blank clone, so in fine your bounty will be useless, and this will be just isk you will not spend elsewhere.

i do fly with a below -5 sec status, meaning in high i only fly lowcost fast ships.
this also means that in low, everyone is free to shoot at me without taking sentrys, but this almost never happen.

recently, we put ourself bounties on our corp, and when on a gate, even if i'm solo, ppl don't engage, unless they really outclass me.

and this is not to brag, i'm not particulary famous or have a good killboard, nor i am part of a big well known corp / alliance.

most ppl are often affraid, just because you are a pirate.

this is how the ppl work, a "bad guy" is scary, whether him being red, having a big bounty etc.... this lead them to thing that kind of ppl did bad things, then most avoid them assuming they will just **** them.

at least, you act like a man, and not like all those crybabies who come in the forum raging, asking CCP to do something because someone was smarter etc.... keep this spirit, it is the good one to have in eve if you want to achieve great things
Jazen Kane
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-07-24 14:31:43 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:

thrawn by the window.


Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-07-24 20:04:58 UTC
Throwing in with the bounties are worthless crowd. That is if you think having a bounty will make bounty hunters hunt down and kill hisec pilots for the bounty. They won't.

I'm working on this little rule of making quick judments about whether something is a scam or not. Its not perfect I know but tell me what you think:

Does it involve interacting with another player in any way? Do I expect to feel happy at the conclusion of the interaction? If yes then WARNING: Possible Scam. Turn all hardeners on!

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

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