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You guys ready to sell your T3's yet?

First post
Author
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-07-24 00:58:34 UTC
chris elliot wrote:


Or for the scrubs not fighting chitsa at home, or in K-space, you still get

1.02 million ehp (1.43 overheated)
Effect = None/K-space
416 Dps
Warp cloaked = yes
1181 m/s
20 km scram
Link to screenshot


dps is only 208 as your not in a wr to take max effect of small guns


while i know w space likes to fly pimp i dont know many who run the noble hull upgrade-1008 (not sure how much guessing 1.5b) and a centum a type eanm, how much do they cost

this also doesnt have anywhere near the point range of a arazu

fit seems a really min max wr fit fine for in that effect but thb i cant see it used ouside
Sorany
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-07-24 00:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sorany
chris elliot wrote:
Onomerous wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:



PS: you also can't get 1.84mil ehp on a T3 with ANY sort of relevance and an arazu scrams well further than a protease


Do you really want me to prove you wrong here jack or you just going to take my word for it that you can make a proteus do all 3 at once? I've got the screens/fit at home I'll give you when I get out of work if it makes you feel better.


I'd like to see that. Last time I challenged someone to prove something along those lines, they came up with an EFT warrior fit which everyone agreed wouldn't be flown in PVP.



Ok, so I was off a tad. But hey whats the big difference between 2.03 million ehp and 1.84million right?

2.03 Million ehp
Effect C6 Wolf
416 Dps
Warp cloaked = yes
1181 m/s
20km scram without
Overheated = yes
Link to screenshot


Or if you prefer, since some people don't like overheating(In a t3 you can overheat forever so why not right?)

1.42 million ehp
Effect C6 Wolf
416 Dps
Warp cloaked = yes
1181 m/s
20km scram
Overheated = no
Link to screenshot

Or for the scrubs not fighting chitsa at home, or in K-space, you still get

1.02 million ehp (1.43 overheated)
Effect = None/K-space
416 Dps
Warp cloaked = yes
1181 m/s
20 km scram
Link to screenshot


never not fly with active tank x-types.

the only time I've seen someone use active X-types was in our invasion, and that was an archon. I'm not saying it has never been done before, but to be quite honest 99.9999999% of most T3s for most WH corps are either faction or lower deadspace.

which even with c-types would only put the average prot used in most combat situations around 183k EHP and 630-750 dps without implants or boosts.
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#63 - 2013-07-24 01:30:42 UTC
I never said anything about how common they needed to be or how many people needed to use them.

Dude a few pages back asked why people said they were OP, I said to me the fact that this sort of silliness is possible at all is OP.
Jack poked his nose in saying it wasn't possible. I proved it was. Implausible, yes, but not impossible.
Sorany
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2013-07-24 01:40:31 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
I never said anything about how common they needed to be or how many people needed to use them.

Dude a few pages back asked why people said they were OP, I said to me the fact that this sort of silliness is possible at all is OP.
Jack poked his nose in saying it wasn't possible. I proved it was. Implausible, yes, but not impossible.


and yet I would argue it's not OP because it will literally affect almost no one, and certainly not any significant percentage of people in total.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#65 - 2013-07-24 02:17:49 UTC
I'm sure you can do all kinds of silly things with ships that aren't T3s. Does that mean that they should be nerfed too?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-07-24 02:57:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
chris elliot wrote:
Jack poked his nose in saying it wasn't possible. I proved it was. Implausible, yes, but not impossible.

um... what i ACTUALLY said was you can't do it with any sort of relevance.
it's ok, go ahead and re read my post. i'll wait.

also, using C6 WR stats is just sad...

PS: arazu scrams to 22.5km without heat and without links, your proteus is at 20km sooo....... still waiting on that one.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#67 - 2013-07-24 03:07:41 UTC
Are we really making the monster T3 argument again? News flash, T3s can't do all this **** at the same time.

You can have the awesome tank, OR
You can have good DPS, OR
You can be cloaky, OR
You can ahve good E-War skills

There is no configuration where you can have it all. At best, you can pick 2 of those things, and one of them will be slightly gimped.

The T3s most people are claiming are overpowered DON'T. EXIST. The T3s most people are claiming are overpowered CANNOT exist.
Bamsey Amraa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-07-24 03:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Bamsey Amraa
Paikis wrote:
Are we really making the monster T3 argument again? News flash, T3s can't do all this **** at the same time.

You can have the awesome tank, OR
You can have good DPS, OR
You can be cloaky, OR
You can ahve good E-War skills

There is no configuration where you can have it all. At best, you can pick 2 of those things, and one of them will be slightly gimped.

The T3s most people are claiming are overpowered DON'T. EXIST. The T3s most people are claiming are overpowered CANNOT exist.


TRUE!!!

Just try use that Wolf Rayet and those expensive fit on something else like T3 and you will get better effect like in T3 .. Then where is the clue
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-07-24 05:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
And again you guys can't compare ships the right way... .
Lets compare a none T3-ship T2 fit with a T3-ship faction fit and then see a big difference.... .
Why don't you compare a battlecruiser to a dreadnought, price difference is about the same as between none T3-ship T2 fit and a T3-ship faction fit.
And lets trow in some effects, boosters,implants and command links to make the difference even bigger... .
Try comparing a T3-ship T2 fitted with HACS, BC's and cruisers and you will see that the difference isn't that big... .

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#70 - 2013-07-24 08:49:47 UTC
Onomerous wrote:

None can beat logi T2: CHECK
None can beat HIC T2: CHECK
None can beat Recon T2: ECM - CHECK, Web - CHECK, Scram/Disrupter - CHECK
None can beat T2 HAC: Can't tell true role of HAC ATM - UNCHECK
Can play more than one T2 role (but not as well)- CHECK (to some degree but need some changes on many subsystems to make them relevant)


I agree for the logi and HIC.

However, T2 Recon eWar is only there while the ship is alive. So i would concede your point towards ECM, which has a builtin defense. IF web and scram are pivotal for your strategy you want them on your target as long as possible. Greater range CAN be the decisive factor there, but usually eHP will be. Thus Loki and Proteus will almost always be the preferred option.

Regarding T2 HACs: if you can't tell the role, you have to default to the standard role of ships, which is providing DPS and eHP.
So i maintain, as long as no EXCLUSIVE role is found for HACs where they can shine, the consequence of T2>T3 in their role must mean T3's will get nerfed. (or CCP not applying their own standards, which admittedly cannot be excluded)
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#71 - 2013-07-24 10:02:14 UTC
Look, you're all wrong. T3 is worse than T2.

For hauling.

Just try making a 6,000m3 cloaky loki.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-07-24 10:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
If CCP nerf T3 cruisers, the only way i would be okay with it is if they released another T3 hull (battleship, battle cruiser etc.) that uses my existing subsystem skillpoints.

If there just reduce the tank/dps of T3s and give us no other improvements, i'll probably move out of WH space or just stop playing the game altogether.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#73 - 2013-07-24 11:35:57 UTC
T3 battleships that can rip caps a new one.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#74 - 2013-07-24 13:39:07 UTC
Alundil wrote:
> 1,000,000 is possible. It's just not smart.
Links plus snake set
http://i.imgur.com/sJpfgBy.png


And it costs over 3 billion isk. I could get a battleship to have over 1 million EHP if I spent several billion as well.

Meytal wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
Because no matter how much it's your favorite 1.84million ehp on a cruiser that can warp cloaked and scram at 30km is OP.

Don't forget that they can fit 100MN ABs, jam at the same strength as the T2 Electronics Frigate, neut with a better efficiency per cap bounce than the Bhaal, web almost as good as the Vindi, and get 700+ dps, all in a cruiser sized package that has up to 100+ km weapons range. The only thing it can't do is slice your bread and butter your toast. No wonder people are running scared from them!



Too bad most of what you said is BS.
No T3 webs like a Vindy
No T3 is as good as a Falcon
No T3 is as good as an Arazu
No T3 is as good as a Rapier
Any ship can hit to 100+km
Any ship can fit 700dps

And NO T3 can do all of the things you listed at once.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#75 - 2013-07-24 13:42:30 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
chris elliot wrote:

Ok, so I was off a tad. But hey whats the big difference between 2.03 million ehp and 1.84million right?

2.03 Million ehp
Effect C6 Wolf
416 Dps
Warp cloaked = yes
1181 m/s
20km scram without
Overheated = yes
Link to screenshot




The difference is you threw your obscene T3 fit into a C6 Wolf Rayet to get the ridiculous resist bonus, plus you overheated your mods.

Try that fit out, see how it works. There's a reason nobody fits those 1m EHP, its because they aren't as good in reality as they are on paper. It doesn't matter how "possible" something is, but rather how practical something is.

If nobody flies the OP ship it clearly isn't OP, or everyone would be flying it!

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#76 - 2013-07-24 13:55:16 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Alundil wrote:
The only thing it can't do is slice your bread and butter your toast. No wonder people are running scared from them!

[...]
And NO T3 can do all of the things you listed at once.



The technique used is called sarcasm. You might want to look it up, it's often quite useful to spice up communication.

In internet forums it's sometimes 'hard' to detect sarcasm, so sensitive people use strong hints to mark it as such.
I left the relevant part in the quote above.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-07-24 13:56:05 UTC
Rename T3 cruiser to T3 battle cruisers, problem solved Blink
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-07-24 13:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Casirio
chris elliot wrote:
I never said anything about how common they needed to be or how many people needed to use them.

Dude a few pages back asked why people said they were OP, I said to me the fact that this sort of silliness is possible at all is OP.
Jack poked his nose in saying it wasn't possible. I proved it was. Implausible, yes, but not impossible.


Your eft warrioring does not make them OP cus no one fits like that. also, just takes a couple neuts and its done.

While we are at it lets nerf the dramiel cus with eft warrioring, overheating, boosts, snakes, and black hole effect it goes like 25 kms or whatever that video showed.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#79 - 2013-07-24 14:41:38 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Alundil wrote:
The only thing it can't do is slice your bread and butter your toast. No wonder people are running scared from them!

[...]
And NO T3 can do all of the things you listed at once.



The technique used is called sarcasm. You might want to look it up, it's often quite useful to spice up communication.

In internet forums it's sometimes 'hard' to detect sarcasm, so sensitive people use strong hints to mark it as such.
I left the relevant part in the quote above.

Why did you have you go and bring toast into this? We're having a perfectly silly conversation about the serious business of Internet Spaceships with all the silliness that implies. FFS perfectly good toast ruined in this way ought to be a crime.

And M1k3y.......note I said it was not smart. That ought to preclude ANY sort of rebuttal/rejoinder on that note as it was merely there for effect and as counter to the "it's not possible" argument.

Silly....toast.....gah

I'm right behind you

Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#80 - 2013-07-24 16:55:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Onomerous
chris elliot wrote:
Onomerous wrote:
chris elliot wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:



PS: you also can't get 1.84mil ehp on a T3 with ANY sort of relevance and an arazu scrams well further than a protease


Do you really want me to prove you wrong here jack or you just going to take my word for it that you can make a proteus do all 3 at once? I've got the screens/fit at home I'll give you when I get out of work if it makes you feel better.


I'd like to see that. Last time I challenged someone to prove something along those lines, they came up with an EFT warrior fit which everyone agreed wouldn't be flown in PVP.



Ok, so I was off a tad. But hey whats the big difference between 2.03 million ehp and 1.84million right?

2.03 Million ehp
Effect C6 Wolf
416 Dps
Warp cloaked = yes
1181 m/s
20km scram without
Overheated = yes
Link to screenshot


Or if you prefer, since some people don't like overheating(In a t3 you can overheat forever so why not right?)

1.42 million ehp
Effect C6 Wolf
416 Dps
Warp cloaked = yes
1181 m/s
20km scram
Overheated = no
Link to screenshot

Or for the scrubs not fighting chitsa at home, or in K-space, you still get

1.02 million ehp (1.43 overheated)
Effect = None/K-space
416 Dps
Warp cloaked = yes
1181 m/s
20 km scram
Link to screenshot


**edited**

How often do you or a corpmate fly that? How many KM have you seen with anything like those fits? Because you can put it in EFT doesn't mean it is OP. If it was really OP, wouldn't people be doing it quite often? Just because something COULD happen doesn't mean it is a problem...

If I was to argue how bad a shield fit ship was and give an example of the EHP in a C6 wolf, would you object to it? Exactly. Please delete the first two as they are not relevant.