Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Arazu has range bonuses for warp disruptors.
Rapier has range bonuses for webs.
But the pilgrim does not get a range bonus forcing it much closer to the target than the other force recons.

Dragoon got a range bonus.
Armageddon got a range bonus.

If you are going to crush my dreams of a range bonused neuting force recon please just tell me now so i can stop thinking about it.

Completely agree

20%

I am not wanting it along side amount bonus, but rather replacing it. Allowing it to fill the role force recons are used for.

Every other covert op ship can effectively fill their roles past 15km (medium faction neut) so why should the pilgrim need to be closer than 15km when only applying at best 100% bonus to that medium neut amount

Because stasis web effectiveness is a Serpentis ship trait. The daredevil, vigilant and Vindicator all share it. Web range is the T2 minmatar bonus. The T2 Amarr ship bonus is neut effectiveness. You can see this in how the Sentinel picks up this bonus in addition to the tracking disruption bonus. Both the Curse and the Pilgrim have the bonus. This is how things are.

Now if you want to make a convincing argument you should argue that Blood Raider ships should be the exclusive users of neut effectiveness and switch the Amarr T2 bonus to neut range. This would allow Blood Raider ships to be more specialized with a niche role while bringing the Amarr T2 bonus in line with 2 of the other races which T2 bonus is Web/warp disruption range. Caldari and their ECM will always be an odd one out as they have a T2 ECM strength bonus. That means the neut range bonus might even go on to the Paladin instead the oddly placed web strength bonus.

Also, missile velocity and flight time do essentially the same thing so swapping one for the other won't change stealth bombers much. And it is 20% per Recon level. So those neuts will be VERY effective as you skill up. Toss in the tracking disruption and you have a very lethal ship which any competent PvPer would pick to fill that role over and bomber or BlOps BS.

Assuming they dont completely change the role of force recons, and bombers they are used for guerrilla warfare tactics. "ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, the element of surprise, and extraordinary mobility to dominate a larger and less-mobile traditional army, or strike a vulnerable target, and withdraw almost immediately."

for recons that means depending on superior ewar and range, and covert cloaks rather than close range brute strength


a proper fleet consisting of every other recon and bomber can operate efficiently past 30km with ease. Yet the pilgrim needs a heavy neut just to have the freedom of moving past 20km. If the range is to stay the same then the amount should get a buff to compensate for the very close range of medium neuts.

I dunno maybe 30-40%, If it meant decreasing drone damage i would be ok with that. Sure love me some bonused drones but my reason for bringing a pilgrim is tracking disruption and more importantly neutralizing. And while i would rather be able to do that while sitting comfortably outside counter drop range like every other ship on field IF i have to be within 13km of my target i would like to be more effective at the role of neutralizing before i die :)

So 30-40% per Recon level. So you go from 200% at Recon 5 up to 250 or 300%. So your neuts will go from neuting 360gj up to 450gj at 30% or 540gj 40%. A heavy neut is 600gj neuted a cycle. Almost the same neut amount with half the cycle time and far less fitting. That doesn't scream OP at all. And while we are at it why don't we bump the Rapier, Arazu, and Falcon's bonus to 30 or 40% to make sure things balanced. Oh and we can't forget to bump up the combat recons also.

This is why we leave ship balancing up to CCP instead of random people. You have a perfectly fine neut effectiveness bonus that is the standard T2 bonus for Amarr. If you aren't skilled enough to put it to use then don't fly the ship. If you want to be safe and be risk free go back to highsec. Lots of people use the Pilgrim with no problem and realize how awesome the neut effectiveness bonus is. Just because you want to be highsec safe while PvPing doesn't mean we are going to fix something that isn't broken.

Lastly, the Arazu doesn't have a bonus to drones because the Celestis doesn't have a bonus to drones. The Pilgrim and Curse have bonuses to drone because the Arbitrator has bonuses to drones.

And it can neut the point of the ship that is pointing it. No other ship on the field can do that.

Also the rapier bonus is 60% so...what were you saying about op?..

I am a carebear and i counter drop recon/ bomber/ black ops gangs every single chance i get. Also i fly every bomber and recon,fly half the blackops. and enjoy the risk of getting baited. and out of all those ships in my hangar i only choose the pilgrim if i am going after a carrier.

main purpose for rapier - webs - lvl V 40km 52 overload
main purpose for arazu - long point - lvl V 48km 57 overload
main purpose for falcon - jamming - 50km+ optimal
main purpose for pilgrim - neuts - 12-15km meds 25-29 single large which takes away from tank and overall ship efficiency at hit and run tactics which is the sole purpose for force recons unlike the other recons which have many great fittings.

High dps torpedo bombers easily applying dps past 50km as well.

all of these ships are very good at using range as defense especially when grouped together , except the pilgrim

i am not cherry picking, i just see a lone ship that isnt performing as well as others in the role they have

just wondering if recons and bombers are going to retain the guerrilla warfare role they have had forever. and if so what ccp and the community think about the far superior range the other recons have over the pilgrims neuts

I didnt punch a baby or anything chill out man.