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ECM: OP or not, it does not belong.

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Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#21 - 2013-07-23 20:25:15 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
ECM should reduce your max locked targets so multitasking would actually be worth training.

It would make sense if ECM reduced the ship's max locked targets stat, but Multitasking wouldn't help unless the ECM actually affected the character, which is a bit of a stretch.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-07-23 20:29:24 UTC
hmm that's a bit of a code mystery but it's not impossible.

CCP pls?

Art of Explosions
DHB WildCat
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#23 - 2013-07-23 20:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: DHB WildCat
Zor'katar wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
ECM should reduce your max locked targets so multitasking would actually be worth training.

It would make sense if ECM reduced the ship's max locked targets stat, but Multitasking wouldn't help unless the ECM actually affected the character, which is a bit of a stretch.



ECM should only affect the ships stats, but that doenst mean that we cant chance multitasking to also affecting the ships stats, but tbh that might be overpowered against the new ecm mechanic.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#24 - 2013-07-23 20:34:31 UTC
Oh, I'm sure it could be implemented that way, just pointing out that it would have to stretch realism a bit, suggesting that the ECM affects the pilot's ability to control targets, rather than the electronics of the ship. I suppose you could write it off that the pilot's skill is able to overcome the ECM, effectively becoming a counter... still seems like a stretch, though. *shrug*
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-07-23 21:18:35 UTC
yup ecm is overnerfed it needs a boost
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#26 - 2013-07-23 21:25:08 UTC
ECM can be countered with auto-targeting missiles, drones, and ECCM.
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#27 - 2013-07-23 21:45:38 UTC
So, what you're really trying to say is that you don't want ECM around to jack up your Logi Rep chain? So then people start bitchin about Logi's being OP because they're now near impossible to break.

ECM is chance base for a reason... It works just fine.

LOL, at the 5 second cycle time proposal. Aside from that not helping your theory at all, how then does the Projected ECM skill then get applied? Get it down to a 2 second cycle? Lol

Seriously, 5 years later and people still complaining about this, when there are ways to combat it... They're just too lazy to plan ahead.

CCP, instead of further trying to appease the lazy minded, how about developing a Manual Override mode on turrets, where they can fire weapons with a point amd click of the mouse... Without the ships computer helping them Track, estimate range, lead... THAT, would be the only way around that. And the Manual Override could only be used for turreted weapons. Let them see how hard that is... But hey, at least then they could feel like they weren't completely Useless.

Cheers Cool

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-07-23 21:49:48 UTC
Cordo Draken wrote:
So, what you're really trying to say is that you don't want ECM around to jack up your Logi Rep chain? So then people start bitchin about Logi's being OP because they're now near impossible to break.

ECM is chance base for a reason... It works just fine.

LOL, at the 5 second cycle time proposal. Aside from that not helping your theory at all, how then does the Projected ECM skill then get applied? Get it down to a 2 second cycle? Lol

Seriously, 5 years later and people still complaining about this, when there are ways to combat it... They're just too lazy to plan ahead.

CCP, instead of further trying to appease the lazy minded, how about developing a Manual Override mode on turrets, where they can fire weapons with a point amd click of the mouse... Without the ships computer helping them Track, estimate range, lead... THAT, would be the only way around that. And the Manual Override could only be used for turreted weapons. Let them see how hard that is... But hey, at least then they could feel like they weren't completely Useless.

Cheers Cool


I don't know if you are being serious but "manual override mode" is just stupid. It would never work, eve isn't some FPS.

How can you complain about other peoples proposals where the one you put is equally as bad.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#29 - 2013-07-23 22:25:27 UTC
Right, first of, the OP has the right to post an idea to discuss and has the right to expect a civil and healthy discussion as a result. You don't have to agree, but post your arguments in a civil manner please. This goes both ways by the way.

Thread cleaned of some rule breaking posts and comments.

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Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-07-23 22:27:20 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
So, what you're really trying to say is that you don't want ECM around to jack up your Logi Rep chain? So then people start bitchin about Logi's being OP because they're now near impossible to break.

ECM is chance base for a reason... It works just fine.

LOL, at the 5 second cycle time proposal. Aside from that not helping your theory at all, how then does the Projected ECM skill then get applied? Get it down to a 2 second cycle? Lol

Seriously, 5 years later and people still complaining about this, when there are ways to combat it... They're just too lazy to plan ahead.

CCP, instead of further trying to appease the lazy minded, how about developing a Manual Override mode on turrets, where they can fire weapons with a point amd click of the mouse... Without the ships computer helping them Track, estimate range, lead... THAT, would be the only way around that. And the Manual Override could only be used for turreted weapons. Let them see how hard that is... But hey, at least then they could feel like they weren't completely Useless.

Cheers Cool


I don't know if you are being serious but "manual override mode" is just stupid. It would never work, eve isn't some FPS.

How can you complain about other peoples proposals where the one you put is equally as bad.

hah eve is fps it is called dust number ^^

you whine about ecm all the time, probably your lame dps ship got countered and now you bruhuhu
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#31 - 2013-07-24 01:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cordo Draken
Diesel47 wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
So, what you're really trying to say is that you don't want ECM around to jack up your Logi Rep chain? So then people start bitchin about Logi's being OP because they're now near impossible to break.

ECM is chance base for a reason... It works just fine.

LOL, at the 5 second cycle time proposal. Aside from that not helping your theory at all, how then does the Projected ECM skill then get applied? Get it down to a 2 second cycle? Lol

Seriously, 5 years later and people still complaining about this, when there are ways to combat it... They're just too lazy to plan ahead.

CCP, instead of further trying to appease the lazy minded, how about developing a Manual Override mode on turrets, where they can fire weapons with a point amd click of the mouse... Without the ships computer helping them Track, estimate range, lead... THAT, would be the only way around that. And the Manual Override could only be used for turreted weapons. Let them see how hard that is... But hey, at least then they could feel like they weren't completely Useless.

Cheers Cool


I don't know if you are being serious but "manual override mode" is just stupid. It would never work, eve isn't some FPS.

How can you complain about other peoples proposals where the one you put is equally as bad.


Oh hai Diesel... Look, I know you still hate from all those times I killed you back in Aki, but try to be more grown up in the forum. By the way, a manual override makes more sense logically and would be more immersive than just trying to wipe out a strategic mechanic making Eve less immersive and have less options to actually be strategic.

The OP mentioned wanting ideas, I gave one... An apparent outside the box one. Perhaps that's what is needed. Simple and easy after all is NOT what is wanted by smart players and CCP.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#32 - 2013-07-24 03:27:33 UTC
Widows vs Vargurs... ECM vs low sensor strength ships. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n4dV2QrytI
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#33 - 2013-07-24 03:37:07 UTC
Considering all Maruaders have **** Sensor strength its basically asking to be perma jammed. You need your Sensor comp to 5 and a ECCM to even hope to not be jammed.

In saying that there are ways to counter ECM. And if he fails a jam he will die rather quickly.

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#34 - 2013-07-24 03:44:24 UTC
Bigg Gun wrote:
Widows vs Vargurs... ECM vs low sensor strength ships. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n4dV2QrytI



Great Link. I had never seen this. Thx.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#35 - 2013-07-24 03:45:44 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
My solution to ECM.............

Change the effect from completely breaking lock of everything on a ship to each successful activation effectively reduces the amount of targets you can lock. (Also this would mean that ECM strength would have to be boosted, however before you kill me listen up)

So lets say a ship can lock 7 targets. A falcon decloaks and locks you successfully getting 2 jams off from different jammers at the same time.
Now you can only lock 5 targets. Effectively freeing up 2 ships but enemy ship can still lock 5 targets. Now if there are only 4 enemy ships you would lose lock on 2 of them, but since you can still lock 5 total, you would be able to immediately lock back those ships. Now if there were 9 ships you would lose lock on 2 of the 7 but keep 5 others locked.

This would help nerf the small gang ECM problem while boosting Large fleet effectiveness. In large fleets say you have 10 falcons and 20 enemy logi. With boosted ECM strength you could effectively cause each logi to lose lockj on 3 targets. This would enable the ability to effectively switch targets and cause all mannor of chaos, but at the same time a ship would not be COMPLETELY out of a fight if jammed.

Now a ship would be completely out if it had more activated jams on it than lockable targets.

I hope my explaination made sense..... whatcha think?

Wild


It sounds like you havn't thought this all the way through.

What if you only had 3 ships targeted?

What if you only had 2 ships targeted?

What if you only had 1 ship targeted?

It starts to become real ugly real fast.

Also this entire thread sucks. ECM just got a huge nerf with the new skills that help avoid being jammed.

It really doesn't need another nerf.

The logi would ruin all if weakened it any further.
Cycle time changes would not work as already stated in this thread.


I don't think ECM should be nerfed in any way but here goes my theory on how it could be done:
Add a new attribute to it. One that makes cycle time split into 2 things. One being how long it takes to reactivate and the other being the time the effect last. If those were not one and the same you could remove % of time ecm is on during a given cycle time.

Reactivation time would still be 30 secs but you could make the effect last 25 of those 30 secs so a 5 sec break is always given before a cycle has chance to break again. Making the miss amount of the cycle a moving effect that can be adjusted until said balance of ECM exist.

If you asked a certain question to yourself after reading this the answer is: A LOT! P
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#36 - 2013-07-24 03:48:37 UTC
ECM should turn off randomly picked active modules, number of mods and duration specified by skills, equipment and gear used and a moderate random modifier. New mods and duration rolled per each cycle.

Flight of ECM drones would be able to shut off 1-2 mods for only a short duration.

.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-07-24 03:54:12 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
ECM should reduce your max locked targets so multitasking would actually be worth training.





t3's would be useless....5 targets hard coded. They need an adjustment, yes. Complete castration however...no.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#38 - 2013-07-24 04:28:14 UTC
Roime wrote:
ECM should turn off randomly picked active modules, number of mods and duration specified by skills, equipment and gear used and a moderate random modifier. New mods and duration rolled per each cycle.

Flight of ECM drones would be able to shut off 1-2 mods for only a short duration.



One issue/side effect will show up if this was done.

I'll assume that CCP would be smart enough to start with effectiveness v.s. logistics first.

Then would base the number of modules that shut off based on how many mods they use on average.

As you get to smaller ships it gets real ugly losing a mod compared to a cruiser.

A BS would have it the other way. It would be very minimal effect

That is why I called it issue/side effect.

It may be a wanted side effect to some.
It might be a huge issue for others.

Just be aware that it would happen if that was done to the ECM system.

Would you really want to have to turn back on your tank if you got hit with ECM?

Would it only effect high slot mods if not?

Now the BS v.s. Frigate effect goes crazy.
1/8th of a BS's Damage could be shut off compared to half of a frigates if just one dropped on a given cycle.

Does that leave ECM as god like v.s. frigs? Or do we give all ships the same base sensor strength to compensate?

More questions than answers on this one.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-07-24 04:31:35 UTC
How hard is it to bring your own ECM?

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-07-24 05:45:21 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
How hard is it to bring your own ECM?

must be realy hard , not as easy to bring the same lame dps ships everytime