Player Features and Ideas Discussion

your bad. brawlers suck for fighting larger gangs then your own they can't disengage(fact that you suggest this means baddie). You don't have point all the time(cept ninja pointing). They should be coming for you til you've killed enough.

Fun fact: most people struggle to fit a single medium turret on their Ishtars, somehow magicking 4 railguns on it as suggested by Rise is frankly ridiculous idea.

Losing all utility slots for 0.25 more purely theoretical damage is just ****, and is my main gripe with the suggested Ishtar. Yes, utility highs don't matter in blob warfare, where the new Ishtar will actually be very good. For my use, solo and small gang, it lost a major part of it's appeal, which was versatility.

I will leave this here for you.

Sorry but I disagree. THe non snipe hacs should all be able to fit tackle. OTherwise they are useless. IF you want to bring simply firepower support you are better with an attack BC> HAcs need to be able to tackle to have ANY usage over those.

Drones are shockingly effective these days. I know AT isn't a great example of small gang fights but god damn those domi are effective.

Well in his defense, I don't really think he was addressing fighting much larger gangs. The gist of his post seems to be more along the lines of small gang fights of relatively equal numbers... not so much being the classic Hydra Reloaded hero soloing endless scores of hapless opponents that in true lemming-like fashion feed themselves into the meat-grinder of your awesomeness. Though I have to admit, small gang fights of relatively equal numbers don't happen nearly as most would like.

I dont think that balancing mobile cruiser sized ship around immobile battleship-sized weapons (sentries) is a correct path either.

Heavy assault cruisers would be fleet doctrine based. While slower and less projecting/applying than their skirmish breathern, their staying power and EWAR resilience is literally unmatched. If there was ever a ship type to put most fleets in their place, these are the ships you want. They should have ~30% more base HP points than their t1 counterparts, but be about 15% slower base.

These can be brought into balance by increasing their sig. Further, their masses could be very large for a cruiser hull, not quite battlecruiser, but lying directly between the two is a good place for them to be to make up for their heavy tanks and high dps potential. As is obvious, they are extremely powerful, but just look at other areas to put a damper on them.
Perhaps increasing the HAC/Assault Cruiser skill to a 7x modifier?

Heavy Assault Cruisers:
Ishtar, Muninn, Eagle, Sacrilege
*OPTION 1* Role bonus: Immune to non-direct interdiction, No drawback from Armor/Shield Rigs
*OPTION 2* Role bonus: 50% bonus to Sensor Boosters, ECCMs, Backup Arrays and Signal Amplifiers, No drawbacks from Armor/Shield Rigs
*OPTION 3* Role bonus: -50% efficiency to all incoming Target Painters, Remote Sensor Damps, ECM, Tracking Disruptors, No drawbacks from Armor/Shield Rigs

Ishtar
Gallente Cruiser Bonuses: [roll the bonus of drone bay into the ship hull]
7.5% bonus to drone tracking and optimal range
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage
Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonuse to drone tracking and microwarpdrive speed
\ Heavy Neutron Blaster II x3
\ Drone Link Augmentor II
-OR-
\ 250mm Railgun II x3
\ Drone Link Augmentor II
// Ogre II x5
// Garde II x5
// Warden II x5
// Hobgoblin II x5
{Shield}
\\ 10MN Microwarpdrive II
\\ Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
\\ Large Shield Extender II
\\ Adaptive Invulnerability Field II x2
\\\ Damage Control II
\\\ Drone Damage Amplifier II x3
\\\ Magnetomectric Sensor Backup Array II
\\\ Signal Amplifier II
/ Medium Core Defense Shield Extender I x2
{Armor}
\\ 10MN Microwarpdrive II
\\ Sensor Booster II
\\ Magnetometric ECCM II
\\ Omnidirectional Tracking Link II x2
\\\ Damage Control II
\\\ 1600mm Steel Reinforced Plate II
\\\ Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II x2
\\\ Drone Damage Amplifier II x2
/ Medium Trimark Armor Pump I x2
~30% more base HP than a Vexor, ~15% less base speed than a Vexor.

Muninn
Minmatar Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret optimal range
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed
{Armor Autos}
\ 425mm Autocannons II x5
\\ 10MN Microwarpdrive II
\\ Sensor Booster II
\\ LADAR ECCM II
\\ Tracking Computer II x2
\\\ Damage Control II
\\\ 1600mm Steel Reinforced Plate II
\\\ Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II x2
\\\ Gyrostabilizer II x2
/ Medium Trimark Armor Pump I x2
// Warrior II x5
{Shield Arty}
\ 720mm Howitzer Artillery II x5
\\ 10MN Microwarpdrive II
\\ Large Shield Extender II
\\ Adaptive Invulnerability Field II x2
\\ Tracking Computer II
\\\ Damage Control II
\\\ Gyrostabilizer II x3
\\\ Tracking Enhancer II
\\\ LADAR Backup Array II
/ Medium Core Defense Field Extender I x2
// Warrior II x5
~30% more base HP than a Rupture, ~15% less base speed than a Rupture.

Eagle
Caldari Cruiser Bonuses:
20% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret optimal range
4% bonus to shield resistances
Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
\ 250mm Railgun II x6
-OR-
\ Heavy Neutron Blaster II x6
\\ 10MN Microwarpdrive II
\\ Large Shield Extender II
\\ EM Field Ward II
\\ Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
\\ Tracking Computer II
\\ Gravimetric ECCM II
\\\ Damage Control II
\\\ Magnetic Field Stabilizer II x2
\\\ Tracking Enhancer II
\\\ Signal Amplifier II
/ Medium Core Defense Field Extender I x2
~30% more base HP than a Moa, ~15% less base speed than a Moa

Sacrilege
Amarr Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile damage (added heavy missiles)
4% to all Armor Resistances
Assault Cruiser Bonuses: [roll cap bonus into hull, this can support its RAH]
5% reduction to Missile Explosion Radius
5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire
\ Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II x6
-OR-
\ Heavy Missile Launcher II x6
\\ 10MN Microwarpdrive II
\\ Target Painter II
\\ Sensor Booster II
\\ RADAR ECCM II
\\\ Damage Control II
\\\ 1600mm Steel Reinforced Plate II
\\\ Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
\\\ Reactive Armor Hardener
\\\ Ballistic Control System II x2
/ Medium Trimark Armor Pump I x2
// Warrior II x5
~30% more base HP than a Maller, ~15% less base speed than a Maller.

HAC rebalance is all wrong!

How hard can it be?
1. You want to get HAC class to be usable again
2. You want em to be better then T1 (or it looks like players want that, not ccp Rise)

Point.1
To be usable again, well find them a role! Ex.
Heavy tackler: able to chase and tackle ships much larger and more powerful then him, ex, Battle Cruisers, Battles Ships, Capitals...
Heavy dmg dealer: able to do avrg. 600+ DPS, this is the avrg dps in the upper ship class the Battle Cruiser.

Point 2 Better then T1, like why the hell did I spend all that time learning all those skills if a T1 alternative is 10 times cheaper and BETTER! ? ?

It all about the BASE!
Current changes proposed are twiks over the current HAC ships. This is the WRONG approach, because T1 cruiser got so heavily reshaped.

Example: Frigates vs Assault Frigates

Ship: Rifter vs Jaguar and Wolf
Most DPS : Jaguar and Wolf ( twice as much dps )
Most Tank: Jaguar and Wolf (Twice the amount of the t1 hull)
Speed: Rifter (up to 20% faster)

Ship: Incursus vs Ishkur and Enyo
Most DPS: Enyo and Ishkur (again even that incursus can do 260+ dps, the dps of the t2 hull is much higher, in the avrg range of the upper hull class)
Most Tank: Enyo and Ishkur (twice the amount of the t1 hull)
Speed: Incursus (up to 20% faster)


So now CCP Rise if you do something different, then what have already been done in the lower frigate class, you are saying that frigate re-balance was Wrong!? Was it ?

Example why current approach is wrong:
1. Zealot, Sacrelige, Vagabond, Munin, Cerberus ... all of them are avrg. dps around 400 . This is T1 Cruisers and t2 frigets avrg dps
2. Deimos can do 600 dps, but so does the Torax !

So Start from the BASE: T1 Crusers.
Add Twice more Tank
Add Twice more DPS
Leave them just a little bit slower then the T1 hull

You can not go wrong with that approach...

Or create entirely new roll for those ships!
Current roles are: 1x high dps close range and 1x high thank and 1x mid range kite-er / sniper for each race

Whit the introduction of the Tier 3 BCs, you have killed the mid range versatility
I Do not see a point in a HAC that will be good at 50 + km range, kite-in etc. Since we have Tier 3 BC that can hit harder, at even better ranges and are even FASTER then the lower hull class ...
How ever the micro warp drive bonus + good tank and dps. might change that!...

P.S.
Taking away tracking from medium class long range guns, means you can not do dmg to the Lower class ships, the frigate!
Are we going to see the same done for the Large Guns!!! So That long range Tier 3 BCs can not hit crusers and hacs ?

The gripes about sentry domi fleets is not relevant to the discussion of HACs. Yes, assigning mass sentries in blobs is terribly effective - but that is also being done in FW with Tristans and Warrior I's. It is a gripe by people who haven't worked out a tactic for their F1-mashing lemmings to fight the lemmings who've assigned their drones to an FC.

The meaty discussion about the Ishtar in small gang work is that it is incredibly difficult to justify dropping 5 sentries in a mobile battle because you have to go back to get them. If you don't go back to get them, to swap drones requires a clunky and horrible menu fiddle to abandon the sentries. Then you need to launch, eg, warriors because you got, eg, scrammed and are eg, dying horribly with your lack of CPU an kite fit rendering you web-less and vulnerable.

People can and do assign drones outside of Ishtars and Domis and Tristans. It is one of the only ways to whore onto kills while a logi. It is a way of gaining instant DPS from a small gang or fleet on the warp-in of a FW plex. It is not however a reason to balance ANY ship.

Hell, you can chuck sentries into Dragoons, Myrms, Vexors, etc. You can assign them to anyone, at any range, at any time, in sufficient numbers to make it OP. What you cannot so with any of these ships (unlike the Ishturd) is control that drone at 80km (if you train EW drone interfacing V).

This is a unique ability, but it's not enough of a lynchpin to hang an otherwise lacklustre ship around. The Ishtar needs mobility, DDA's, Omnilinks to fit happily alongside a tank and defensive highslot weapons (and at least one or two neuts!), in order to shine outside of blobs. In blobs, even Tristans work with drone assignation. In small gangs the sentry DPS is not enough to make up for a gimped fit and the cumbersome interface.