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Is this game really that hardcore

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Caldain Morrow
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2011-11-08 21:14:40 UTC
I don't know. This is how I see the comparison.

WoW PvP: You die, you wait, you pay a bit of cash for repairs, carry on. The other guy doesn't get to steal your stuff. Max group size 10 v 10 (I'm pretty sure)
EvE PvP: Your ship goes boom, your pod goes boom, you lose your ship, you lose your implants, you carry on, the other guy gets a bunch of your nifty stuff. max group size: none
PvP winner: Eve

WoW PvE: You get a bunch of friends, you run your raid, you need to dodge flaming boulders, jump out of firey pits and there's something wanting to beat on you, you get a place on the leader board
Eve PVE: you get some friends, you run an incursion, you dodge some flaming pirates, you work as a team, there are several somethings wanting to beat you. OR you have your ship you goes to mission area, you tank, you shoot, you fap to porn whie you wait, you get your salvage boat, you salvage, you turn in mission.

PvE winner: WoW by virtue of that pretty much is the game.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#42 - 2011-11-09 03:31:12 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:


Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.


Now imagine losing twelve months worth of training in the space of twenty seconds.

Not a fun concept.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#43 - 2011-11-09 03:37:00 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please



EVE, as an experience, tends to give the player exactly what they bring.

If you approach EVE as a dull, unchallenging PvE grindfest where the goal is to maximise numbers on your character sheet, then that's pretty much the experience you'll have. I've never been sure why people would want to do that, but apparently quite a few do. Never taking any risks or trying anything exciting or making contact with other players and then complaining that EVE is safe and boring and lonely...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#44 - 2011-11-09 03:43:58 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and (..) waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.

hardcore, nah, as you said there's not even permadeath!
The risk of really losing something substantial is very small for the average EVE player.

Imagine all the cowering vets when their preciousss SP suddely would be at stake. Unimaginable!


Imagine my reaction the other day when, after completing the Angel epic arc, I found myself camped into the final mission station in K-QW. It's a kickout, btw. I managed to get back inside because I'm pro at running away, and I thought, aha! I will jump clone out and foil those campers!

Opened character sheet, my eye happens to fall upon the dread words "CLONE GRADE ALPHA"....


...I'd been running around Curse for over a week in a 900k clone.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#45 - 2011-11-09 03:47:37 UTC
Try running Worlds Collide 4 and Gone berserk 4 in an AF without warping out once... its not easy.


May not be hardcore in the sense of losing everything, but when it takes you over a year of play time to get into large t2 ships... that kind of loss would kill any game.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#46 - 2011-11-09 03:55:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and (..) waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.

hardcore, nah, as you said there's not even permadeath!
The risk of really losing something substantial is very small for the average EVE player.

Imagine all the cowering vets when their preciousss SP suddely would be at stake. Unimaginable!


Imagine my reaction the other day when, after completing the Angel epic arc, I found myself camped into the final mission station in K-QW. It's a kickout, btw. I managed to get back inside because I'm pro at running away, and I thought, aha! I will jump clone out and foil those campers!

Opened character sheet, my eye happens to fall upon the dread words "CLONE GRADE ALPHA"....


...I'd been running around Curse for over a week in a 900k clone.




Love it dude. Thats a great story
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Dbars Grinding
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#47 - 2011-11-09 06:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Dbars Grinding
EVE is really easy imo. Playing sc2 is more hardcore. I have been so bored as of late i might try suicide ganking in an orca.

I have more space likes than you. 
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-11-09 06:23:59 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Try running Worlds Collide 4 and Gone berserk 4 in an AF without warping out once... its not easy.


May not be hardcore in the sense of losing everything, but when it takes you over a year of play time to get into large t2 ships... that kind of loss would kill any game.


Yeah, even thought D2 hardcore kills your character, it was possible to powerlevel a character to level 80 in maybe two days.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2011-11-09 06:55:05 UTC
Inappropriate posts removed.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
Leon Razor
Measure Zero
#50 - 2011-11-09 07:28:50 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:

But when you die in this game what you lose is time. The time spent grinding for your ship.


Do you not lose time in the other game as well? Time grinding for your levels or skills or gear?

For the most part, EVE's harshness is the single world with open rules and the people that populate it trying to twist every advantage they can from the unwary.

What you described as hardcore about Diablo is a rule mechanic that can be opted out of by not choosing that mode.

It's not just time that you loose. Everything in this game and in life takes time, and in EVE you can always grind more isk, but time and money aren't the only measures of investment. Relationships and reputation aren't easy to buy and you can't just grind out a new empire. Take Famble's example
Famble wrote:
I'll throw this out there for you to think about.

After a couple cocktails on some weekdays I like to scan out people's wormholes and run their sites. I can tell you, without exception that while I'm cleaning out a site then moving my alt in to salvage then finally moving us both back out to empire to sell my loot I am scared. A good scared to be sure, but scared just the same. I get an adrenaline rush that no other game has provided since way back in EverQuest's infancy.

That's my definition of hardcore. I suppose everyone's is different though.


Now extend this a bit more: consider it takes a bit of luck to scan out a good wormhole system, then you might need to organize a gang to run the sites and convince some people this is a good idea and worth their time. Maybe the locals catch you're gang on the site and ransom your ships, and take all the loot. Maybe you make it out, but they don't like you very much now so they hire a few merc corps to wardec you. Does your salvaging "friend" steal all the loot for himself? Maybe the locals were feeling particularly mean and your new corp disbands becasue you can't keep up with the constants wardecs. The fear of getting blown up and loosing your stuff is part of why you might be scared, but so is the fear of not coming out on top, of your plan failing, of letting others down, of unexpected betrayal, of random bad luck, and particularly of the unknown consequences that you can't just fix with "time". Not all of these are unique to EVE, but I think they the come together in a pretty "hardcore" way because of the sandbox.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2011-11-09 07:33:29 UTC
You don't know hardcore until you play minecraft; turn around and see a creeper in your face.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2011-11-09 07:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Depend ..

"Hardcore PvPers" claims that PvE is for pussies.

Yet anyone who concider him/herself hardcore plays the game as "AI machine" therefore no challenge required.

People who plays it differently, plays it as human-beings and got some emotion attached to what they do.

However if you project some theories too far, Emotions are programmable anyway.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#53 - 2011-11-09 08:04:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

EVE, as an experience, tends to give the player exactly what they bring.

If you approach EVE as a dull, unchallenging PvE grindfest where the goal is to maximise numbers on your character sheet, then that's pretty much the experience you'll have. I've never been sure why people would want to do that, but apparently quite a few do. Never taking any risks or trying anything exciting or making contact with other players and then complaining that EVE is safe and boring and lonely...

People approach eve that way because almost every other video game out there has taught us that you have to do the grindfest to gain power, and its hard to understand how this isn't true in eve. People who have never played video games before have a much better shot at enjoying this one that people who have been gamers for years.

I spent 2 years grinding in highsec trying to get enough isk and power to be able to make the move, before I finally realized that a pilot doesn't need any of that stuff to make it to the eve 'end game'. You just need friends, which you don't make grinding isk.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
pussnheels
Viziam
#54 - 2011-11-09 08:20:28 UTC
Schmacos tryne wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
If the game was as hardcore as diablo II we all would be the ultimate care bears and just pretty much overtank everything we fly in even our pod


Uhm... Exacly how do I overtank my pod?

staying docked ?

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#55 - 2011-11-09 12:16:47 UTC
You're hardcore if you can figure out the UI.
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-11-09 16:03:54 UTC
Tthe idea that this game is difficult... ridiculous. I don´t really care because i have fun with this game one way or the other, but don´t claim anything about this game is hardcore. We are talking about a game where missionrunners aren´t concerned whether they successfully finish a mission or not, but how to maximize ISK/hour doing so. Where people don´t undock because there is an afk-cloaker in system. Where "leet" pvp means blobbing your opponents. Where you actually intentionally repeatedly commit suicide, because losing fights can benefit you.

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#57 - 2011-11-10 06:12:03 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:

I spent 2 years grinding in highsec trying to get enough isk and power to be able to make the move, before I finally realized that a pilot doesn't need any of that stuff to make it to the eve 'end game'. You just need friends, which you don't make grinding isk.


It's genuinely saddening how many players make the same mistake. And it's infuriating how many other players will try and shout me down and babble on nonsense about "you just want noobs to throw themselves in front of your guns" when I try and give people as advice what you've learned for yourself.

And those same people are often the ones that complain about griefing!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#58 - 2011-11-10 06:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Krios Ahzek wrote:
I've been playing for two months and no.

Don't be dumb and don't fly a ship worth 95% of your wallet.


Screw that, that makes the game fun.

RISK
REWARD

remember these words?

Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Depend ..

"Hardcore PvPers" claims that PvE is for pussies.

Yet anyone who concider him/herself hardcore plays the game as "AI machine" therefore no challenge required.

People who plays it differently, plays it as human-beings and got some emotion attached to what they do.

However if you project some theories too far, Emotions are programmable anyway.


theyre also the first ones to QQ when the ganking rules are changed lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Drakarin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-11-10 06:36:10 UTC
It's only punishing if you aren't particularly bright. It's extremely easy to avoid any sort of grief if you understand the basics of the game.

Personally, I think CONCORD should be escapable, and you should be able to take them down.. although it shouldn't be easy on any level. Furthermore, remove insurance. Entirely.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#60 - 2011-11-10 06:50:29 UTC
I think you should at least be able to tank them :p

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes