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T3 battleship
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AligatorVer1337
Hellvetics Trading
#21 - 2013-07-22 04:43:28 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Yes, T2 cruisers need to be addressed... along with Marauders, Black Ops and Pirates. T3 Strategic Cruisers are fine and should be left the heck alone, however. As for T3 Battleships, I'd actually like to see three additions:

• T3 Destroyers (we don't really need any more frigates, do we?)
• T3 Battlecruisers ("Pocket battleships")
• T3 Battleships ("Flagships")

T3 Battlecruisers would be along the lines of an upgraded Strategic Cruiser (7 weapon slots), and T3 Battleships would rival all T2 Battleships (8 weapon slots) - think Dread and Carrier killers. Yeah, probably a long way off. I can still dream...


Dreads playing station games? no thanks.

T3 BS would be BS.

If ANY t3, then frigate sized. Because frigates need the different variations, while battleships have to be "boring" shooting monsters. I mean it's a battleship afterall.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-07-22 04:47:02 UTC
T3s may have been one of the worst ship classes to be added. They obsoleted HACs, recons, and brick tanked bait cyno ships overnight.

Yeah yeah, they're expensive. But let me remind you of 2 facts.

1. Price is not a factor in balance.
2. A generalized ship (t3) should never be configurable to be better than a specialized one (HAC, Recon)

The original idea of T3s was we could get one ship we could swap subsystems out on to use it as many kinds of ships, but it would be worse at their roles than the specialized counterparts (that you would have to buy 1 of each of, instead of reconfiguring one ship to act as one).

That's not what happened.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#23 - 2013-07-22 05:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
AligatorVer1337 wrote:
Dreads playing station games? no thanks.

T3 BS would be BS.

If ANY t3, then frigate sized. Because frigates need the different variations, while battleships have to be "boring" shooting monsters. I mean it's a battleship afterall.


I said Dread and Carrier killers, ie: good at shooting capitals. I'm not opposed to T3 Frigates; just as long as I get my T3 Battleship. :D

masternerdguy wrote:
T3s may have been one of the worst ship classes to be added. They obsoleted HACs, recons, and brick tanked bait cyno ships overnight.

Yeah yeah, they're expensive. But let me remind you of 2 facts.

1. Price is not a factor in balance.
2. A generalized ship (t3) should never be configurable to be better than a specialized one (HAC, Recon)

The original idea of T3s was we could get one ship we could swap subsystems out on to use it as many kinds of ships, but it would be worse at their roles than the specialized counterparts (that you would have to buy 1 of each of, instead of reconfiguring one ship to act as one).

That's not what happened.


I beg to differ. Were the other ships obsoleted, or have they simply been long overdue for an upgrade? T3 Strategic Cruisers were designed for wormhole space, and in that role they have excelled. They are not particularly good in any of their sub-roles (Covert Ops, ECM) - as there are superior ships for these roles. They are decent at tanking and killing sleepers. They're excellent for mission running, but have since been removed from 3/4 complexes - so there are finite limits to what they all can do.

T3s are inherently expensive (especially once you start considering all the sub-systems), and there's a huge skill penalty when you die in one. Fix the other ships and they won't seem as overbalanced.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2013-07-22 05:36:12 UTC
T3 Battleships....do they drop in Incursions?

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-07-22 05:43:53 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
AligatorVer1337 wrote:
Dreads playing station games? no thanks.

T3 BS would be BS.

If ANY t3, then frigate sized. Because frigates need the different variations, while battleships have to be "boring" shooting monsters. I mean it's a battleship afterall.


I said Dread and Carrier killers, ie: good at shooting capitals. I'm not opposed to T3 Frigates; just as long as I get my T3 Battleship. :D

masternerdguy wrote:
T3s may have been one of the worst ship classes to be added. They obsoleted HACs, recons, and brick tanked bait cyno ships overnight.

Yeah yeah, they're expensive. But let me remind you of 2 facts.

1. Price is not a factor in balance.
2. A generalized ship (t3) should never be configurable to be better than a specialized one (HAC, Recon)

The original idea of T3s was we could get one ship we could swap subsystems out on to use it as many kinds of ships, but it would be worse at their roles than the specialized counterparts (that you would have to buy 1 of each of, instead of reconfiguring one ship to act as one).

That's not what happened.


I beg to differ. Were the other ships obsoleted, or have they simply been long overdue for an upgrade? T3 Strategic Cruisers were designed for wormhole space, and in that role they have excelled. They are not particularly good in any of their sub-roles (Covert Ops, ECM) - as there are superior ships for these roles. They are decent at tanking and killing sleepers. They're excellent for mission running, but have since been removed from 3/4 complexes - so there are finite limits to what they all can do.

T3s are inherently expensive (especially once you start considering all the sub-systems), and there's a huge skill penalty when you die in one. Fix the other ships and they won't seem as overbalanced.


So you are claiming that HACs are better combat ships than Strategic Cruisers?

Also, buffing things to be up to date with overpowered things is power creep, which is bad.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#26 - 2013-07-22 06:14:49 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
So you are claiming that HACs are better combat ships than Strategic Cruisers?
Also, buffing things to be up to date with overpowered things is power creep, which is bad.


Never said that. But on a price per basis, you could field a small fleet of HACs for an average Strategic Cruiser with spare sub-systems. HACs are also the largest ships you can take into 3/4 complexes now, so they do need to be buffed. Power creep is sometimes unavoidable, and I prefer it to nerf'ing everything.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-07-22 06:16:17 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So you are claiming that HACs are better combat ships than Strategic Cruisers?
Also, buffing things to be up to date with overpowered things is power creep, which is bad.


Never said that. But on a price per basis, you could field a small fleet of HACs for an average Strategic Cruiser with spare sub-systems. HACs are also the largest ships you can take into 3/4 complexes now, so they do need to be buffed. Power creep is sometimes unavoidable, and I prefer it to nerf'ing everything.


But price is not a factor in balance.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#28 - 2013-07-22 07:18:03 UTC
T3 frigs or gtfo.
would totally pwn your BS.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2013-07-22 07:57:31 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So you are claiming that HACs are better combat ships than Strategic Cruisers?
Also, buffing things to be up to date with overpowered things is power creep, which is bad.


Never said that. But on a price per basis, you could field a small fleet of HACs for an average Strategic Cruiser with spare sub-systems. HACs are also the largest ships you can take into 3/4 complexes now, so they do need to be buffed. Power creep is sometimes unavoidable, and I prefer it to nerf'ing everything.


HACs just got their first look in teircide and they have not been buffed to t3 levels. They are on par with t1 and navy but more specialised. Its time to face facts that these 4 t3 cruisers are going to get nerfed to be in line with the rest of the cruisers.
duglas Luven
Hell Forge Industries
#30 - 2013-07-22 10:05:30 UTC
T3 Battleships? give them ubber bad ass tracking and optimal range bonuses. Also really good Ewar counters. Bonus to sensors. No bonus to turret damage and smaller drone bays. As well as add in command ship role.

High 6
Med 8
Low 6


A second route to take is give them 4 rig slots with 500 calibration.

In any event just spit balling.
Dark Calling
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-07-22 15:09:11 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
They'd be terribly overpowered if they are done in a similar way to the current T3 cruisers.
Anyway I'd rather see T3 frigates.


This.. I would also prefer to see T3 Frigates

Failure Is Not Falling Down.. Failure Is Refusing To Get Back Up
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#32 - 2013-07-22 15:14:24 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:

Anyway I'd rather see T3 frigates.


This.^

Or T3 Dessies... Glass cannon that can alpha cruisers... Would make for wonderfully messy fights. Twisted
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#33 - 2013-07-22 15:32:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
HACs just got their first look in teircide and they have not been buffed to t3 levels. They are on par with t1 and navy but more specialised. Its time to face facts that these 4 t3 cruisers are going to get nerfed to be in line with the rest of the cruisers.


It's still early... I don't think anyone's overly impressed with the first draft.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mr Pragmatic
#34 - 2013-07-22 17:44:23 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
They'd be terribly overpowered if they are done in a similar way to the current T3 cruisers.
Anyway I'd rather see T3 frigates.

Let's wait for the Marauder rebalance.

oh and I cannot help but point out that it's either:

who agrees with me
or
who's in agreement with me



Terribly over powered like say tengus'?

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-07-22 19:51:48 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Given the balancing nightmare T3 cruisers still are, T3 BS and frigsshouldn't be touched with a ten foot pole.

How about a T3 ten foot pole?


Only if retardation nullified.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#36 - 2013-07-22 20:00:13 UTC
Cloaky Nullified BS with 200% range bonus to MJD.

When it gets killed, you lose all skillpoints except those covered under Alpha Clone and your Avatar gets to look like you had a stroke for 3 years from date of T3 BS destruction.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
YuuKnow
The Scope
#37 - 2013-07-22 20:05:52 UTC
Seeing the track records of how new ship classes introduced into the game are more often than not OP and then continuously nerfed into mediocrity and then become a perpetual time-sink of infinite 'tweaking', how about we pass on this one.

yk
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#38 - 2013-07-22 22:53:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
HACs just got their first look in teircide and they have not been buffed to t3 levels. They are on par with t1 and navy but more specialised. Its time to face facts that these 4 t3 cruisers are going to get nerfed to be in line with the rest of the cruisers.

Such facts...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#39 - 2013-07-22 23:00:09 UTC
Funny to watch these nerds drooling for a t3 frigate when we had one and people cried and it got nerfed to hell and back.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-07-22 23:14:20 UTC
Yeah I need a cloak bubble battleship with large guns !


I want the Megathron hull !

Can fit cover ops cloak

6 highs 4 turrets

5 mids

8 lows

Drone bay 0

T3 resists

Can fit warp disruption and field generators

Gallente Battleship hybrids bonus: 7.5% tracking and ROF

(new skill on top of BS T3 skills/subs)
Covert Black Ops Interdictor: 12.5% bonus to warp disruption field generator radius, script range, and duration

Role Bonus: 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation, 50% reduction in cynosural field duration

Note: can fit covert cynosural field generators and covert jump portal generators. No targeting delay after decloaking


That's it, I've got my T3 BS version and no worries about numbers, they're costy and hard to train for o this is the perfect tool for small gangs/skirmishers and not at all for blobs.

Can I haz one now?

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
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