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So why do people hate cloaking?

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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#501 - 2013-07-22 17:03:00 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.

null will always be full of cowards, and that won't change. so give them less perceived risk (but leaving the same real risk) by removing afk cloakers and it's a win win.


I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#502 - 2013-07-22 17:04:13 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.

null will always be full of cowards, and that won't change. so give them less perceived risk (but leaving the same real risk) by removing afk cloakers and it's a win win.


I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain.


What is that, precisely?

I recall it from somewhere... is it by chance the old Spartan battle pneumonic?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#503 - 2013-07-22 17:06:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

AFK cloaking is nothing like docking as even you are well aware.

As for risk, I am fine with risk thanks very much. I don't want 100% safety, it's boring, and one of the reasons I left high-sec so early on. I see why AFK should have 100% safety either. But then I don't have the massive sense of entitlement that some others seem to.


Lol, I'm so entitled i'm entitled to other people afk cloaking lol. I don't afk cloak in people's system , that's a waste of a toon.

That's what you don't get. I'm a ratter. I'm not playing devils advocate for afk cloakers, I'm saying that if they want to waste 15 bucks a month afk cloaking while I/m still making isk right under their nose, so be it.

You can live in fear of them if you want, or be jealous of their imaginary safety, I choose to keep playing the game.




I agree with most of what you say. I am just of the opinion that it should not be possible to cloak up in a system for hours end end without running a risk of being scanned down and killed.

Cloaky campers actually don't bother me personally, We had a spate of Replicator alts that used to camp Providence for weeks on end, but everyone just ignored him as was was obviously afk.

I don't think AFK cloaking is good for nullsec. CCP should be encouraging players to actually do things in nullsec space, Ratting. mining, etc. Which in turn encourages roaming gangs, defence fleets and fights, Actual PvP. Instead most of nullsec is empty systems, cloaky campers, and everyone else hiding behind POS sheilds.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#504 - 2013-07-22 17:08:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.

null will always be full of cowards, and that won't change. so give them less perceived risk (but leaving the same real risk) by removing afk cloakers and it's a win win.


I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain.


What is that, precisely?

I recall it from somewhere... is it by chance the old Spartan battle pneumonic?



is from Dune, the mantra against fear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJsYKhEV6o0
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#505 - 2013-07-22 17:11:48 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.

null will always be full of cowards, and that won't change. so give them less perceived risk (but leaving the same real risk) by removing afk cloakers and it's a win win.


I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing......Only I will remain.


What is that, precisely?

I recall it from somewhere... is it by chance the old Spartan battle pneumonic?



is from Dune, the mantra against fear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJsYKhEV6o0


As previously proffered in this post:

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#506 - 2013-07-22 17:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Edit: Major mis-quote! Oops

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Nope. What you fail to realize, is that afk cloaking is zero risk for zero reward. You are literally doing nothing.


I would disagree, here. Not a LARGE disagreement, but one on specific - you can't get to the place where you are cloaked-up without transiting gates or workmholes. That, I assert, is not risk free, especially when transiting the boundary systems.

Well, I suppose you could be bridged in, too - but we've seen what can happen with that, so again, not entirely free of risk.

Once cloaked up, though... Yeah. All you can do is twiddle your thumbs and make scary noises. Unless you want to take a risk and uncloak to actually, you know, do something. Blink


I used to talk to mine. Like, get up to close enough to them that I could see what they were up to. Then I'd say things like "Boy, I bet you hope that one drops something good, huh?" or "Man, you must really need that Arkonor for something!".

Then watch them bolt like the devil was after them.

I'd also sit about 100km off the top of their station, because no one ever looks there. "His patterns indicate 2 dimensional thinking..."

Then hail them and say "Nice Vindicator, is that railgun or blaster fit?".

It'd drive them nuts.

That's some high-quality Professor Hyde-White action you've got going on there. Twisted

(Yeah, I've got an adolescent in the house. Kid thinks Scooby Doo is the pinacle of entertainment. Roll )
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#507 - 2013-07-22 17:15:15 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Harland White wrote:
EVE forums = 99% stupid trolls.

Nothing can be discussed seriously.


If people didn't dump their rubbish and emotional baggage in GD things might be different.

if people didn't keep bringing-up the same old crap topics that have been beaten to death, after being told cloaking is working as intended by CCP, things might be different.




How can one beat to death that which was dead before the beating? Therefore EvE is a zombie and we're all gonna die!

Ah! Finally, we get to "EVE is Dying(tm)."

We can all go home now... Lol
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#508 - 2013-07-22 17:16:10 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

I agree with most of what you say. I am just of the opinion that it should not be possible to cloak up in a system for hours end end without running a risk of being scanned down and killed.


But I'm sure you're ok with me clone jumping into your station and sitting afk for hours on end without running the exact same risk. Or jumping in your system in a fast tackle ship and just chosing a safe and burning up and going afk for hours. The effect is the same, I assume no risk and I provide a reasonable doubt of security. At any moment I could return to my keyboard and uncloak, or undock in a hunter ship or suddenly warp to a pre-determined spot to fish for an unsuspecting victim. Yet while you seem to accept the risk of the latter two, you are unwilling to accept the risk of the former.

You might say the latter two there is risk, but I disagree. There is just as much risk decloaking on a target as there is undocking and running in a straight line. The risk is that someone might actually be paying attention and be willing to do something about it. Yo0u might say you can hawkeye the guestlist and camp the undock (though strangely that is performing the same job as the afk cloaker, its keeping you from being productive, lol), and maybe you can get someone who can fly a faster ship than I can and maybe get lucky enough ot probe me down, warp in, and somehow catch me, but if you're willing to put the effort into doing those things then WHY ARE YOU NOT WILLING TO PUT THE EFFORT INTO WATCHING YOUR OVERVIEW FOR A DECLOAK AND REACTING ACCORDINGLY?


Quote:

I don't think AFK cloaking is good for nullsec. CCP should be encouraging players to actually do things in nullsec space, Ratting. mining, etc. Which in turn encourages roaming gangs, defence fleets and fights, Actual PvP. Instead most of nullsec is empty systems, cloaky campers, and everyone else hiding behind POS sheilds.



Yes, all he nullbears provide such a rich target environment for roaming gangs. Oh wait, no, they dock up anytime one pokes its head into system. Good fight, I guess. Roll

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#509 - 2013-07-22 17:19:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

You can live in fear of them if you want, or be jealous of their imaginary safety, I choose to keep playing the game.

Cool
Respect.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#510 - 2013-07-22 17:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Kijo Rikki wrote:
[
Yes, all he nullbears provide such a rich target environment for roaming gangs. Oh wait, no, they dock up anytime one pokes its head into system. Good fight, I guess. Roll

Honestly, I don't blame them for doing this - Initially, at least. Until they know what they're facing.
The tactical thinking behind the 'Dock-Up' or 'Safe-Up' is suond. What comes next is the important bit: Determine what you've got incomming. Acquire intelligence on the stranger(s); check killboards, employment histories, search a few key forum sites, determine what ships they've brought... Basically, determine their capabilities and intentions.

Then find & implement appropriate counter(s).


Edit:
BTW: An AFK Cloaker is a very solid counter to strangers in the system. Better yet, a cloaker who isn't AFK. Nothing like a spread of Combat Probes to put the wind up a strange fleet. Twisted
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#511 - 2013-07-22 17:34:05 UTC
I agree, but it shouldn't take 30 minutes of us sitting on the undock waiting for a response to get this intel. Lol

I respect the ones that do, though I suspect the groups of people who do respond to a roaming gang are not as affected by an afk cloaker.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#512 - 2013-07-22 17:34:46 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
[
Yes, all he nullbears provide such a rich target environment for roaming gangs. Oh wait, no, they dock up anytime one pokes its head into system. Good fight, I guess. Roll

Honestly, I don't blame them for doing this - Initially, at least. Until they know what they're facing.
The tactical thinking behind the 'Dock-Up' or 'Safe-Up' is suond. What comes next is the important bit: Determine what you've got incomming. Acquire intelligence on the stranger(s); check killboards, employment histories, search a few key forum sites, determine what ships they've brought... Basically, determine their capabilities and intentions.

Then find & implement appropriate counter(s).


I posted something about this on that subject some time ago, I forget which bad-thread it was in (probably this one), they all run together eventually.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
A smart player avoids handing out free kills to his enemy.

A coward whines about having to do it in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#513 - 2013-07-22 17:35:51 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
I agree, but it shouldn't take 30 minutes of us sitting on the undock waiting for a response to get this intel. Lol

I respect the ones that do, though I suspect the groups of people who do respond to a roaming gang are not as affected by an afk cloaker.

Fair points..


Usually takes me about five minutes to get a rough rundown. Detailed info takes longer.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#514 - 2013-07-22 17:39:39 UTC
I suspect the problem is two-fold: This particular class of player has no pvp ships ready to go, so when they get the intel they are frantically trying to buy ships and fits to counter, but due to a lack of general pvp experience, they may not be sure how to counter what they are seeing with their intel in the first place.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#515 - 2013-07-22 17:42:43 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
I suspect the problem is two-fold: This particular class of player has no pvp ships ready to go, so when they get the intel they are frantically trying to buy ships and fits to counter, but due to a lack of general pvp experience, they may not be sure how to counter what they are seeing with their intel in the first place.

Probably true.

Fate favors the prepared.
Being preparred is the responsibility of the individual.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#516 - 2013-07-22 17:48:29 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
I suspect the problem is two-fold: This particular class of player has no pvp ships ready to go, so when they get the intel they are frantically trying to buy ships and fits to counter, but due to a lack of general pvp experience, they may not be sure how to counter what they are seeing with their intel in the first place.


Why the frog are they in deep nullsec, living and ratting there, without any ships to defend themselves in that case?

That, as you put it, "particular class of player" deserves whatever they get in that case.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#517 - 2013-07-22 17:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kijo Rikki
Plastic Psycho wrote:

BTW: An AFK Cloaker is a very solid counter to strangers in the system. Better yet, a cloaker who isn't AFK. Nothing like a spread of Combat Probes to put the wind up a strange fleet. Twisted


Truth. We had a bunch of small solar-wing and I think VoC roaming gangs a few weekends ago. I hopped out in my buzzard and dropped combat probes, split them on the gate. The system cleared out pretty well in 5 minutes, but I went afk anyway. When I got back I ran down the list on my intel channels and noted everyone bugged out or went around my system. Lol

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#518 - 2013-07-22 17:49:59 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
I suspect the problem is two-fold: This particular class of player has no pvp ships ready to go, so when they get the intel they are frantically trying to buy ships and fits to counter, but due to a lack of general pvp experience, they may not be sure how to counter what they are seeing with their intel in the first place.


Why the frog are they in deep nullsec, living and ratting there, without any ships to defend themselves in that case?

That, as you put it, "particular class of player" deserves whatever they get in that case.


Renters, man. They pay good money and some, not all, expect the alliance they pay money to to provide their protection.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#519 - 2013-07-22 17:52:31 UTC
Quote:
Renters, man. They pay good money and some, not all, expect the alliance they pay money to to provide their protection.


So, is that what all this bullshit really boils down to, then? "The customer is always right"? Yeesh. You'd think people would understand the concept of a protection racket. You pay me, to have me protect you from the things I would normally do to you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#520 - 2013-07-22 18:15:10 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:

BTW: An AFK Cloaker is a very solid counter to strangers in the system. Better yet, a cloaker who isn't AFK. Nothing like a spread of Combat Probes to put the wind up a strange fleet. Twisted


Truth. We had a bunch of small solar-wing and I think VoC roaming gangs a few weekends ago. I hopped out in my buzzard and dropped combat probes, split them on the gate. The system cleared out pretty well in 5 minutes, but I went afk anyway. When I got back I ran down the list on my intel channels and noted everyone bugged out or went around my system. Lol

Amazing, the power of fear. Pirate