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So why do people hate cloaking?

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Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#481 - 2013-07-22 16:06:00 UTC
Far Hone wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

When they're AFK, no threat at all.

When they come back from getting a sandwich, or the cinema, or a day out with the kids, that's when they're dangerous. And you can't know when they're back. As there's no status change whether they're there or not. (Their danger is mostly due to Cynos. By themselves they can't do /that/ much)

And don't point at wormholes as evidence that it's fine.

You can't hot drop people in wormholes.


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.
How about "No?"

There's nothing that needs to be fixed, save a few players need to strap on a replacement spine to replace the one they were apparently born without.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#482 - 2013-07-22 16:09:27 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Far Hone wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

When they're AFK, no threat at all.

When they come back from getting a sandwich, or the cinema, or a day out with the kids, that's when they're dangerous. And you can't know when they're back. As there's no status change whether they're there or not. (Their danger is mostly due to Cynos. By themselves they can't do /that/ much)

And don't point at wormholes as evidence that it's fine.

You can't hot drop people in wormholes.


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.
How about "No?"

There's nothing that needs to be fixed, save a few players need to strap on a replacement spine to replace the one they were apparently born without.


And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#483 - 2013-07-22 16:12:49 UTC
Quote:
And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.


No, many of us are just arguing that hurt feelings do not sum up having to change something that isn't broken.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#484 - 2013-07-22 16:13:09 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Since there is no "right" or "wrong" in this case, there really truly is no benefit to continuing to argue.


Buit there is a right or wrong. Wrong is wanting to change something not because it's bad but only because you don't like it. Right (ie, what the rest of us are doing) in this situation is saying that the game provides enough tools (that weak people refuse to use) and that if there is a problem, it is only a problem with player's mindsets, not the game itself.


Quote:

CCP just need to add a poll feature and this could be dealt with easily. 1 vote per person on the matter and they would see which side is more supported.


The problem with democracy is that it works great till people figure out they can just vote themselves money from the treasury. This is the exact same situation.

In a case like this, CCP is more obligated to provide a good game than bow to the ignorant whims of people who can't figure out a video game.

Quote:

When asked for 3 words that describe eve players on the questionnaire, my first was "Opinionated". These threads show that to be very true.
We have to be opinionated, not standing up and challenging stupidity is the exact same thing as saying stupidity is ok.

It's not. I rat in null sec all day long and the fact that I rarely get killed and rarely let other people disrupt me proves that this issue is not a problem. It is not my (or the game's) fault that other people can't figure that out.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#485 - 2013-07-22 16:17:51 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Far Hone wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

When they're AFK, no threat at all.

When they come back from getting a sandwich, or the cinema, or a day out with the kids, that's when they're dangerous. And you can't know when they're back. As there's no status change whether they're there or not. (Their danger is mostly due to Cynos. By themselves they can't do /that/ much)

And don't point at wormholes as evidence that it's fine.

You can't hot drop people in wormholes.


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.
How about "No?"

There's nothing that needs to be fixed, save a few players need to strap on a replacement spine to replace the one they were apparently born without.


And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.


claokers and neutrals in my ratting systems are the enemy, I'm not "shilling" for them.

I am saying that it's wrong to advocate changing a game's rules and mechanics BEFORE exhausting all other avenues. i've developed multiple ways to combat "AFK cloakers (and awoxxers for that matters). I have proven that this thing that some of you are so scared of is nothing to worry about if you just prepare and play smart.

That's what is rubbing us raw, the weak mindedness of it all. Players so bad at the game that the need the gamer makers to change the rules rather than coming up with their own solutions. It's madness.




If these people can't solve problems in a video game where they are in no physical danger (it's not like someone is going to come through their screen and slap them, thought it would be nice lol), how do those same people deal with real life where they could scrap their knees or jam their fingers?
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#486 - 2013-07-22 16:18:29 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Far Hone wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

When they're AFK, no threat at all.

When they come back from getting a sandwich, or the cinema, or a day out with the kids, that's when they're dangerous. And you can't know when they're back. As there's no status change whether they're there or not. (Their danger is mostly due to Cynos. By themselves they can't do /that/ much)

And don't point at wormholes as evidence that it's fine.

You can't hot drop people in wormholes.


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.
How about "No?"

There's nothing that needs to be fixed, save a few players need to strap on a replacement spine to replace the one they were apparently born without.


And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.

Where did you ever get that remarkably silly idea?

Anyone who wants 100% safety stays docked up. To get to a system where you can AFK cloak and actualy scare people by making spooky noises in the attic, you hvae to transit to that system - Which isn't a guranteed safe trip. And if you want to *do* anything (other than make spooky noises in the attic), you have to uncloak again.

This thread is full of Scoobies and Shaggies - Except that even Scooby and Shaggy eventually dealt with their fears; invariably they turned out to be just as much threat an AFK Cloaker is - Just someone making scary noises and faces. Which makes them braver and smarter than many whom have posted here.

Some folks need to go see Dogbert and get them selves a Strap-on Porta-Spine.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#487 - 2013-07-22 16:18:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.


No, many of us are just arguing that hurt feelings do not sum up having to change something that isn't broken.



No. AFK cloakers and their shills insist that AFK cloaking should remain 100% risk-free, while calling anyone who questions this inbalance a coward.

Double standards.

Probably the same people who complain about huge swathes of null-sec being empty of pilots.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#488 - 2013-07-22 16:24:36 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:


This thread is full of Scoobies and Shaggies - Except that even Scooby and Shaggy eventually dealt with their fears; invariably they turned out to be just as much threat an AFK Cloaker is - Just someone making scary noises and faces. Which makes them braver and smarter than many whom have posted here.


And I woulda gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling Goons!
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#489 - 2013-07-22 16:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.


No, many of us are just arguing that hurt feelings do not sum up having to change something that isn't broken.



No. AFK cloakers and their shills insist that AFK cloaking should remain 100% risk-free, while calling anyone who questions this inbalance a coward.

Double standards.

Probably the same people who complain about huge swathes of null-sec being empty of pilots.

See, this is a problem - you are asserting something that is not true. AND, at the same time, making unsupported sweeping generalizations. You Scoobies aren't willing to even argue in good faith. Why on earth would you expect your opinons to be respected?


Jenn aSide wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:


This thread is full of Scoobies and Shaggies - Except that even Scooby and Shaggy eventually dealt with their fears; invariably they turned out to be just as much threat an AFK Cloaker is - Just someone making scary noises and faces. Which makes them braver and smarter than many whom have posted here.


And I woulda gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling Goons!

Made me *snerk.* Plus wan likes. Big smile
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#490 - 2013-07-22 16:27:34 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.


No, many of us are just arguing that hurt feelings do not sum up having to change something that isn't broken.



No. AFK cloakers and their shills insist that AFK cloaking should remain 100% risk-free, while calling anyone who questions this inbalance a coward.

Double standards.

Probably the same people who complain about huge swathes of null-sec being empty of pilots.


There's that special short bus thinking we keep seeing.

Afk Cloaking is a lot like docking: the person cloaked/docked can't hurt you until he's in a state (uncloaked, undocked) where you can hurt him.

So I guess we need to put a timer on docking too, so it kicks you out of station if you don't have LO in your hanger or something lol.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#491 - 2013-07-22 16:28:54 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.


No, many of us are just arguing that hurt feelings do not sum up having to change something that isn't broken.



No. AFK cloakers and their shills insist that AFK cloaking should remain 100% risk-free, while calling anyone who questions this inbalance a coward.

Double standards.

Probably the same people who complain about huge swathes of null-sec being empty of pilots.


Nope. What you fail to realize, is that afk cloaking is zero risk for zero reward. You are literally doing nothing.

What the "nerf" crowd wants, is to eliminate risk that effects them, without regard for any consequences or repercussions on other parts of the game. They literally want how much money they make buffed. That's the end of it. They feel entitled to rat or mine in nullsec and not have to be effected by other people. Sorry, but no immunity, never.

All the arguments they ever manage all boil down to "I hate afk cloaking! and it should go away because I hate it!". Sorry, Skippy, but that's not good enough.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#492 - 2013-07-22 16:31:05 UTC
Ah yes. The afk cloaker assumes zero risk...that is until he is not afk and decides to uncloak on what he thinks, assumes, or hopes is an unsuspecting victim....funny thing is, that endeaver is not a 100% guarantee...there is indeed a risk.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#493 - 2013-07-22 16:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Nope. What you fail to realize, is that afk cloaking is zero risk for zero reward. You are literally doing nothing.


I would disagree, here. Not a LARGE disagreement, but one on specific - you can't get to the place where you are cloaked-up without transiting gates or workmholes. That, I assert, is not risk free, especially when transiting the boundary systems.

Well, I suppose you could be bridged in, too - but we've seen what can happen with that, so again, not entirely free of risk.

Once cloaked up, though... Yeah. All you can do is twiddle your thumbs and make scary noises. Unless you want to take a risk and uncloak to actually, you know, do something. Blink
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#494 - 2013-07-22 16:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Speedkermit Damo
Jenn aSide wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
And yet it's the AFK cloakers and their shills that want 100% safety all the time.


No, many of us are just arguing that hurt feelings do not sum up having to change something that isn't broken.



No. AFK cloakers and their shills insist that AFK cloaking should remain 100% risk-free, while calling anyone who questions this inbalance a coward.

Double standards.

Probably the same people who complain about huge swathes of null-sec being empty of pilots.


There's that special short bus thinking we keep seeing.

Afk Cloaking is a lot like docking: the person cloaked/docked can't hurt you until he's in a state (uncloaked, undocked) where you can hurt him.

So I guess we need to put a timer on docking too, so it kicks you out of station if you don't have LO in your hanger or something lol.


AFK cloaking is nothing like docking as even you are well aware.

As for risk, I am fine with risk thanks very much. I don't want 100% safety, it's boring, and one of the reasons I left high-sec so early on. I don't see why AFK cloaking should be risk-free either. But then I don't have the massive sense of entitlement that some others seem to.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Harland White
Adventurer's Guild
#495 - 2013-07-22 16:44:06 UTC
EVE forums = 99% stupid trolls.

Nothing can be discussed seriously.

By their fruit you will recognize them.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#496 - 2013-07-22 16:44:45 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

AFK cloaking is nothing like docking as even you are well aware.

As for risk, I am fine with risk thanks very much. I don't want 100% safety, it's boring, and one of the reasons I left high-sec so early on. I see why AFK should have 100% safety either. But then I don't have the massive sense of entitlement that some others seem to.


Lol, I'm so entitled i'm entitled to other people afk cloaking lol. I don't afk cloak in people's system , that's a waste of a toon.

That's what you don't get. I'm a ratter. I'm not playing devils advocate for afk cloakers, I'm saying that if they want to waste 15 bucks a month afk cloaking while I/m still making isk right under their nose, so be it.

You can live in fear of them if you want, or be jealous of their imaginary safety, I choose to keep playing the game.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#497 - 2013-07-22 16:46:01 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Nope. What you fail to realize, is that afk cloaking is zero risk for zero reward. You are literally doing nothing.


I would disagree, here. Not a LARGE disagreement, but one on specific - you can't get to the place where you are cloaked-up without transiting gates or workmholes. That, I assert, is not risk free, especially when transiting the boundary systems.

Well, I suppose you could be bridged in, too - but we've seen what can happen with that, so again, not entirely free of risk.

Once cloaked up, though... Yeah. All you can do is twiddle your thumbs and make scary noises. Unless you want to take a risk and uncloak to actually, you know, do something. Blink


I used to talk to mine. Like, get up to close enough to them that I could see what they were up to. Then I'd say things like "Boy, I bet you hope that one drops something good, huh?" or "Man, you must really need that Arkonor for something!".

Then watch them bolt like the devil was after them.

I'd also sit about 100km off the top of their station, because no one ever looks there. "His patterns indicate 2 dimensional thinking..."

Then hail them and say "Nice Vindicator, is that railgun or blaster fit?".

It'd drive them nuts.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#498 - 2013-07-22 16:48:07 UTC
Harland White wrote:
EVE forums = 99% stupid trolls.

Nothing can be discussed seriously.


If people didn't dump their rubbish and emotional baggage in GD things might be different.

if people didn't keep bringing-up the same old crap topics that have been beaten to death, after being told cloaking is working as intended by CCP, things might be different.


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#499 - 2013-07-22 16:48:53 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Nope. What you fail to realize, is that afk cloaking is zero risk for zero reward. You are literally doing nothing.


I would disagree, here. Not a LARGE disagreement, but one on specific - you can't get to the place where you are cloaked-up without transiting gates or workmholes. That, I assert, is not risk free, especially when transiting the boundary systems.

Well, I suppose you could be bridged in, too - but we've seen what can happen with that, so again, not entirely free of risk.

Once cloaked up, though... Yeah. All you can do is twiddle your thumbs and make scary noises. Unless you want to take a risk and uncloak to actually, you know, do something. Blink


I used to talk to mine. Like, get up to close enough to them that I could see what they were up to. Then I'd say things like "Boy, I bet you hope that one drops something good, huh?" or "Man, you must really need that Arkonor for something!".

Then watch them bolt like the devil was after them.

I'd also sit about 100km off the top of their station, because no one ever looks there. "His patterns indicate 2 dimensional thinking..."

Then hail them and say "Nice Vindicator, is that railgun or blaster fit?".

It'd drive them nuts.


You're evil.....I like that in a space-man. Twisted
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#500 - 2013-07-22 16:50:06 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Harland White wrote:
EVE forums = 99% stupid trolls.

Nothing can be discussed seriously.


If people didn't dump their rubbish and emotional baggage in GD things might be different.

if people didn't keep bringing-up the same old crap topics that have been beaten to death, after being told cloaking is working as intended by CCP, things might be different.




How can one beat to death that which was dead before the beating? Therefore EvE is a zombie and we're all gonna die!