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So why do people hate cloaking?

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Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#461 - 2013-07-22 15:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximillian German
Rishna Katar wrote:
wow, still all missing the point. people arent asking for anything risk free. they are simply asking for the tools to be able to determine the risk they are faced with, to determine if it is afk or an actual threat. unknown threat is always treated as high threat by anyone with half an ounce of knowledge of risk mitigation, and so people move on or dock up.

you can keep saying repeatedly that they are all bears and they all need to stop being cowards and it wont change a damn thing.

again ill repeat though, why should someone that is not actually playing the game be allowed to affect the game at all. if carebears found a way to abuse cloak to safely rat with 0 risk and while afk, you'd be on here in a heartbeat complaining that it needs to be changed and it's unacceptable. but an afk cloaker affecting the game world by reducing the isk generation overall, that's fine.

all i want is for players to actually have to play the game and not be able to be afk for the whole day while still playing. i dont think that much to ask but you guys are spinning it all out of proportion into some kind of demand for riskless null. i actually think this would bring more risk to null, as more people would be out mining and ratting. theres got to be at least 100+ systems being camped right now, so thats 100+ systems that noone will use.


People can beat around the literary bush all they want about the semantics of "afk" cloaking, but the bottom line is, that this "afk" cloaker could, at any time, cease to be afk and attack your assets. Therefore, there IS risk(risk = the possibility of injury or loss, according to The Merriam-Webster Dictionary) caused by said afk cloaker.

Now, that you have identified this risk, you can deal with it in a couple of ways. You can either ***** about it to CCP(a popular course of action, I assure you), or you can deal with the risk on your own like everyone else. If you don't like the risk posed by afk cloakers, there's a magical place called Highsec where you would feel completely at home. Or I guess you could live in a wormhole for a few months and HTFU.

anyway, time to train up a cloaky alt and find this idiot's system
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#462 - 2013-07-22 15:06:41 UTC
Maximillian German wrote:

anyway, time to train up a cloaky alt and find this idiot's system

Locator agents are your friend. Blink

Suonds like a plan, actually. I've already got the skilz, may go harvest a few risk-free tears. Twisted
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#463 - 2013-07-22 15:10:43 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Maximillian German wrote:

anyway, time to train up a cloaky alt and find this idiot's system

Locator agents are your friend. Blink

Suonds like a plan, actually. I've already got the skilz, may go harvest a few risk-free tears. Twisted


Clearly, since he has demonstrated in no uncertain terms that he is neither willing nor able to do anything about it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#464 - 2013-07-22 15:15:54 UTC
Maximillian German wrote:


People can beat around the literary bush all they want about the semantics of "afk" cloaking, but the bottom line is, that this "afk" cloaker could, at any time, cease to be afk and attack your assets. Therefore, there IS risk(risk = the possibility of injury or loss, according to The Merriam-Webster Dictionary) caused by said afk cloaker.

Now, that you have identified this risk, you can deal with it in a couple of ways. You can either ***** about it to CCP(a popular course of action, I assure you), or you can deal with the risk on your own like everyone else. If you don't like the risk posed by afk cloakers, there's a magical place called Highsec where you would feel completely at home. Or I guess you could live in a wormhole for a few months and HTFU.

anyway, time to train up a cloaky alt and find this idiot's system


The highlighted part is no good. You see, these people want the REWARDS of null sec, just with the safety of high sec. They aren't looking for solutions (which we've given plenty), they want ccp to give them comfort.

We should pretty much just ignore them, like ccp does :) .
Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#465 - 2013-07-22 15:23:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Maximillian German wrote:


People can beat around the literary bush all they want about the semantics of "afk" cloaking, but the bottom line is, that this "afk" cloaker could, at any time, cease to be afk and attack your assets. Therefore, there IS risk(risk = the possibility of injury or loss, according to The Merriam-Webster Dictionary) caused by said afk cloaker.

Now, that you have identified this risk, you can deal with it in a couple of ways. You can either ***** about it to CCP(a popular course of action, I assure you), or you can deal with the risk on your own like everyone else. If you don't like the risk posed by afk cloakers, there's a magical place called Highsec where you would feel completely at home. Or I guess you could live in a wormhole for a few months and HTFU.

anyway, time to train up a cloaky alt and find this idiot's system


The highlighted part is no good. You see, these people want the REWARDS of null sec, just with the safety of high sec. They aren't looking for solutions (which we've given plenty), they want ccp to give them comfort.

We should pretty much just ignore them, like ccp does :) .


yep, time to abandon Thread
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#466 - 2013-07-22 15:32:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Maximillian German wrote:


People can beat around the literary bush all they want about the semantics of "afk" cloaking, but the bottom line is, that this "afk" cloaker could, at any time, cease to be afk and attack your assets. Therefore, there IS risk(risk = the possibility of injury or loss, according to The Merriam-Webster Dictionary) caused by said afk cloaker.

Now, that you have identified this risk, you can deal with it in a couple of ways. You can either ***** about it to CCP(a popular course of action, I assure you), or you can deal with the risk on your own like everyone else. If you don't like the risk posed by afk cloakers, there's a magical place called Highsec where you would feel completely at home. Or I guess you could live in a wormhole for a few months and HTFU.

anyway, time to train up a cloaky alt and find this idiot's system


The highlighted part is no good. You see, these people want the REWARDS of null sec, just with the safety of high sec. They aren't looking for solutions (which we've given plenty), they want ccp to give them comfort.

We should pretty much just ignore them, like ccp does :) .


Lol?

I like cloaking, but it is currently OP.
You should not be able to take a worthless alt, and disrupt a system with it endlessly.

So explain how dealing with constant roaming gangs, black ops gangs, has any relationship to highsec safety?

It's hilarious to watch ignorant people post nonsense arguments, with no basis in fact.
It's only reason I still even post here....Lol


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#467 - 2013-07-22 15:37:12 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Maximillian German wrote:


People can beat around the literary bush all they want about the semantics of "afk" cloaking, but the bottom line is, that this "afk" cloaker could, at any time, cease to be afk and attack your assets. Therefore, there IS risk(risk = the possibility of injury or loss, according to The Merriam-Webster Dictionary) caused by said afk cloaker.

Now, that you have identified this risk, you can deal with it in a couple of ways. You can either ***** about it to CCP(a popular course of action, I assure you), or you can deal with the risk on your own like everyone else. If you don't like the risk posed by afk cloakers, there's a magical place called Highsec where you would feel completely at home. Or I guess you could live in a wormhole for a few months and HTFU.

anyway, time to train up a cloaky alt and find this idiot's system


The highlighted part is no good. You see, these people want the REWARDS of null sec, just with the safety of high sec. They aren't looking for solutions (which we've given plenty), they want ccp to give them comfort.

We should pretty much just ignore them, like ccp does :) .


Lol?

I like cloaking, but it is currently OP.
You should not be able to take a worthless alt, and disrupt a system with it endlessly.

So explain how dealing with constant roaming gangs, black ops gangs, has any relationship to highsec safety?

It's hilarious to watch ignorant people post nonsense arguments, with no basis in fact.
It's only reason I still even post here....Lol




English?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#468 - 2013-07-22 15:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
This thread is getting stupid.

null will always be full of cowards, and that won't change. so give them less perceived risk (but leaving the same real risk) by removing afk cloakers and it's a win win.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#469 - 2013-07-22 15:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
EDIT: Double post

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#470 - 2013-07-22 15:40:44 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:


null will always be full of cowards, and that won't change. so give them less perceived risk (but leaving the same real risk) by removing afk cloakers and it's a win win.


That's like rewarding cowardice.

No thanks, there is no GAME problem here that needs solving (or rather, the problem is already solved by those who care to use the tools the game gives). Those who are too weak to seek out or use the solutions (ie those who dock up and the mere sight of a neutral) are screwed anyways, so screw em.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#471 - 2013-07-22 15:42:24 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.


If you don't like the fact that you can't get other people as ticked off as you are about something, you should stop posting lol. You're advocating something that's just unnecessary. That's the stupid part.
Far Hone
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#472 - 2013-07-22 15:42:43 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

When they're AFK, no threat at all.

When they come back from getting a sandwich, or the cinema, or a day out with the kids, that's when they're dangerous. And you can't know when they're back. As there's no status change whether they're there or not. (Their danger is mostly due to Cynos. By themselves they can't do /that/ much)

And don't point at wormholes as evidence that it's fine.

You can't hot drop people in wormholes.


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#473 - 2013-07-22 15:44:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.


If you don't like the fact that you can't get other people as ticked off as you are about something, you should stop posting lol. You're advocating something that's just unnecessary. That's the stupid part.

It's certainly not necessary enough to be worth my time discussing, and at the end of the day, nothing we say here matters. The decision will be made by CCP and the CSM and i doubt they'll be reading 24 pages in.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#474 - 2013-07-22 15:46:36 UTC
Far Hone wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

When they're AFK, no threat at all.

When they come back from getting a sandwich, or the cinema, or a day out with the kids, that's when they're dangerous. And you can't know when they're back. As there's no status change whether they're there or not. (Their danger is mostly due to Cynos. By themselves they can't do /that/ much)

And don't point at wormholes as evidence that it's fine.

You can't hot drop people in wormholes.


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.

I'd love to see this happen but only because of the amount of rage when a massive bomber fleet gets hit by it when on an op. :D Anyone that didn't deloak would probably be decloaked by the decloaked guys around them then welp welp welp lol

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#475 - 2013-07-22 15:48:46 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.


If you don't like the fact that you can't get other people as ticked off as you are about something, you should stop posting lol. You're advocating something that's just unnecessary. That's the stupid part.

It's certainly not necessary enough to be worth my time discussing, and at the end of the day, nothing we say here matters. The decision will be made by CCP and the CSM and i doubt they'll be reading 24 pages in.


That's the most popular cop out on the forums these days. It basically translates as "I know I'm wrong and I know i can't win so let me just say that none of it matters anyway despite the fact that i've posted 25 times in this thread" LOL.

I have it on good authority that the CSM doesn't think this is a problem lol.

And I don't see CCP doing an about face on something they've said is not an exploit. Yep, they had to say that, because weak people actually PETITIONED about the cloakies in their systems lol.

It doesn't matter that you don't like it or think it's unfair. It's EVE. Get used to it. I did.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#476 - 2013-07-22 15:50:15 UTC
Far Hone wrote:


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.



How about telling us exactly why changing cloaking mechanics is necessary first? What specific game mechanic is broken by someone who can't directly affect other players until they are uncloaked?







☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#477 - 2013-07-22 15:51:42 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.

null will always be full of cowards, and that won't change. so give them less perceived risk (but leaving the same real risk) by removing afk cloakers and it's a win win.


Except it doesn't leave the same risk, it reduces the real risk by removing uncertainty.

And even if it didn't make any difference, why make changes to game mechanics in the first place
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#478 - 2013-07-22 15:54:14 UTC
Far Hone wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

When they're AFK, no threat at all.

When they come back from getting a sandwich, or the cinema, or a day out with the kids, that's when they're dangerous. And you can't know when they're back. As there's no status change whether they're there or not. (Their danger is mostly due to Cynos. By themselves they can't do /that/ much)

And don't point at wormholes as evidence that it's fine.

You can't hot drop people in wormholes.


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.


Ok but only if I get a random timer that ejects you from your pos/station, and randomly warps your PVE ships to me so I can shoot them.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#479 - 2013-07-22 15:57:08 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Far Hone wrote:


How about a timer on the cloaker?

Or, a random event that can cause a ship to de-cloak? The random event can be mitigated by the level of cloaking skills.

Just a thought.



How about telling us exactly why changing cloaking mechanics is necessary first? What specific game mechanic is broken by someone who can't directly affect other players until they are uncloaked?









My dear Doc, don't you understand? "I don't like it" is more than enough reason for these people to advocate major game changes! Don't you know nothin?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#480 - 2013-07-22 16:01:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
This thread is getting stupid.


If you don't like the fact that you can't get other people as ticked off as you are about something, you should stop posting lol. You're advocating something that's just unnecessary. That's the stupid part.

It's certainly not necessary enough to be worth my time discussing, and at the end of the day, nothing we say here matters. The decision will be made by CCP and the CSM and i doubt they'll be reading 24 pages in.


That's the most popular cop out on the forums these days. It basically translates as "I know I'm wrong and I know i can't win so let me just say that none of it matters anyway despite the fact that i've posted 25 times in this thread" LOL.

I have it on good authority that the CSM doesn't think this is a problem lol.

And I don't see CCP doing an about face on something they've said is not an exploit. Yep, they had to say that, because weak people actually PETITIONED about the cloakies in their systems lol.

It doesn't matter that you don't like it or think it's unfair. It's EVE. Get used to it. I did.

I don't really care if you think it's a cop out or not. We're 24 pages into a post filled with personal attacks and trolling. It's going nowhere and should have been closed long ago. And I've said my part and anything else I add would just be repeating myself. Since there is no "right" or "wrong" in this case, there really truly is no benefit to continuing to argue. CCP just need to add a poll feature and this could be dealt with easily. 1 vote per person on the matter and they would see which side is more supported.

When asked for 3 words that describe eve players on the questionnaire, my first was "Opinionated". These threads show that to be very true.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.