These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

6 small neuts

Author
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-22 13:51:33 UTC
1 small neut = 6 sec cycle
6 small neuts can be spread out so there is one going off every second
the server works on 1 sec tics

If an opponent is capped out and you use 6 small neuts in 1 sec intervals can you keep a person from being able to use their low cap usage weapons? or do the weapons fall through the cracks and still get the cap they need?
Jon Joringer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-07-22 14:15:45 UTC
Six small neuts may take a while to cap a ship out, but nothing is going to be running when they do.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-07-22 14:26:22 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
1 small neut = 6 sec cycle
6 small neuts can be spread out so there is one going off every second
the server works on 1 sec tics

If an opponent is capped out and you use 6 small neuts in 1 sec intervals can you keep a person from being able to use their low cap usage weapons? or do the weapons fall through the cracks and still get the cap they need?


cycling is always a good idea. you probably can cap out weapons but there could be still drones on field.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

RaTTuS
BIG
#4 - 2013-07-22 14:33:46 UTC
may I introduce you to Projectile weaponry

http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png http://i.imgur.com/kYLoKrM.png

seth Hendar
I love you miners
#5 - 2013-07-22 15:08:47 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
1 small neut = 6 sec cycle
6 small neuts can be spread out so there is one going off every second
the server works on 1 sec tics

If an opponent is capped out and you use 6 small neuts in 1 sec intervals can you keep a person from being able to use their low cap usage weapons? or do the weapons fall through the cracks and still get the cap they need?

yes, you will even be able to turn off his damage control, wich is to my knowledge the active module requiring the less cap.

note that a proper timing on bigger neut may achieve the same.

also,6 small neut are only effective on frig and destro, maybe some cruiser if using a ship with bonuses on neuts (cruor, but you can't squeeze 6 of them so...)
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-07-22 15:14:42 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Jon Joringer wrote:
Six small neuts may take a while to cap a ship out, but nothing is going to be running when they do.


6 small neuts have the same neuting power as 3.6 medium neuts iirc, with the advantage of a cycle every second. I fly the dragoon with 5 (fitting 6 is tricky) and it caps cruisers out in less than 30 secs, and keeps them down.

It'll turn of their DCU.
Whitehound
#7 - 2013-07-22 15:24:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Ciyrine wrote:
1 small neut = 6 sec cycle
6 small neuts can be spread out so there is one going off every second
the server works on 1 sec tics

If an opponent is capped out and you use 6 small neuts in 1 sec intervals can you keep a person from being able to use their low cap usage weapons? or do the weapons fall through the cracks and still get the cap they need?

First you need to understand how the capacitor recharges. There are somewhat opposing formulas and graphs for it, but they give a picture of the non-linear behaviour of a capacitor's recharge rate:

Graph 1 and Graph 2

It does not matter which of the two is right, but they both show common features. One is that the recharge rate has got a peak where the capacitor fills up very fast (at around 25%-30% and 2.5x times the average rate), and that it fills only slowly when it is almost empty and when it is almost full.

This means that when you drain a ship's capacitor very fast and with all 6 neuts down to 0 GJ will the ship's capacitor recharge very slowly. It takes a long time to get from 0% to just 10% and it recharges much faster when going from 10% to 20% or 20% to 30%.

So you really only need to neut very fast until you are sure your target is out of cap and then can use a single neut or only 2 to keep the capacitor empty, because it does not recover fast at that point.

If the targeted ship then uses any cap will it put itself back to 0 GJ and punish itself with a very low recharge rate. You do not need to fiddle around with timing 6 neuts once you understand how a capacitor recharges.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#8 - 2013-07-22 15:48:31 UTC
one small neut is sufficient to prevent most module activation once you caped the target dry. Use two if you really want to make sure that nothing runs but its usually a waste of YOUR cap at this point.

things get interesting if the target has a cap booster and knows how to use it

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Brother Mercury
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-07-22 16:05:33 UTC
6 small neuts on me
my cap booster does nothing
I hope they buff NOS
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-07-22 18:32:21 UTC
@brother - what does nos stand for? Then ill probably understand ur comment in full.

@bienator - i was told by other posters in a different topic that it was extremely difficult to keep weapons and other small cap usage modules turned off because any cap regen will fuel them and since cap recharges every sec u need to hit them non stop to keep the small cap regen from fueling the low cap usage modules. But u say 1 small is enough which sounds more manageable but does what they say have any truth to it?

Also what would someone who know how to use their cap booster do with it thats different from what a newb like me would do with it?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-07-22 18:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ElQuirko
Brother Mercury wrote:
6 small neuts on me
my cap booster does nothing
I hope they buff NOS


EVE toon writes haiku
A shame it's on this forum
thread is now spiderman

Dodixie > Hek

Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-22 18:37:54 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
1 small neut = 6 sec cycle
6 small neuts can be spread out so there is one going off every second
the server works on 1 sec tics

If an opponent is capped out and you use 6 small neuts in 1 sec intervals can you keep a person from being able to use their low cap usage weapons? or do the weapons fall through the cracks and still get the cap they need?

First you need to understand how the capacitor recharges. There are somewhat opposing formulas and graphs for it, but they give a picture of the non-linear behaviour of a capacitor's recharge rate:

Graph 1 and Graph 2

It does not matter which of the two is right, but they both show common features. One is that the recharge rate has got a peak where the capacitor fills up very fast (25%-30%), and that it fills only slowly when it is almost empty and when it is almost full.

This means that when you drain a ship's capacitor very fast and with all 6 neuts down to 0 GJ will the ship's capacitor recharge very slowly. It takes a long time to get from 0% to just 10% and it recharges much faster when going from 10% to 20% or 20% to 30%.

So you really only need to neut very fast until you are sure your target is out of cap and then can use a single neut or only 2 to keep the capacitor empty, because it does not recover fast at that point.

If the targeted ship then uses any cap will it put itself back to 0 GJ and punish itself with a very low recharge rate. You do not need to fiddle around with timing 6 neuts once you understand how a capacitor recharges.


So a bs with 6 slots if neuting is all i car about would 5x heavy and 1x small be recomended for keeping them down?

Does the cap recharge a small amount every sec?

Should i use a ship scanner to see when they need to be neuted again?
Whitehound
#13 - 2013-07-22 18:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Ciyrine wrote:
@brother - what does nos stand for? Then ill probably understand ur comment in full.

@bienator - i was told by other posters in a different topic that it was extremely difficult to keep weapons and other small cap usage modules turned off because any cap regen will fuel them and since cap recharges every sec u need to hit them non stop to keep the small cap regen from fueling the low cap usage modules. But u say 1 small is enough which sounds more manageable but does what they say have any truth to it?

Also what would someone who know how to use their cap booster do with it thats different from what a newb like me would do with it?

NOS is short for Nosferatu, the energy vampires.

Some weapons need no cap at all, cannot be turned off and will do full damage. Others need very little, are hard to turn off but begin to stutter. And some need more, especially when grouped, can easily be turned off and do not do any damage.

The trick with a cap booster when neuted is to inject a cap charge and at the same time fire the MWD and get away before the newly injected cap is gone.

And yes, the idea you have with mixing neut sizes is about right. I do not know if a small neut will keep a BS's capacitor at 0 once neuted empty, but a medium will. You can test this for yourself by fitting lots of shield boosters and armor repairers onto a BS, run them and empty your cap until it is 0, and then watch how fast the capacitor recharges. You will see that it stays low for quite a while before it picks up.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#14 - 2013-07-22 22:10:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Ciyrine wrote:

@bienator - i was told by other posters in a different topic that it was extremely difficult to keep weapons and other small cap usage modules turned off because any cap regen will fuel them and since cap recharges every sec u need to hit them non stop to keep the small cap regen from fueling the low cap usage modules. But u say 1 small is enough which sounds more manageable but does what they say have any truth to it?


i solo with a sentinel sometimes and can only say in my experience that one small neut is enough to keep most stuff off once the cap is empty. If you really want to make sure that its off use two. Thats what i do when i make an mistake and land in scram range which happens from time to time if you fight multiple targets.

people will try to activate things like weapons, tank or prop mods, all those things use a lot of cap, so even if they manage to enable SOMETHING its only one cycle. So don't panic you are not dead yet.

but again: as soon you see that the target has cap boosters you have to act differently

e.g: take a look at this fight where i start at scram range: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uifGwdqUhj0 (its actually a bad example because i overneuted at the end a bit too much) or this one against an cap injecting tristan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKZBIioDMK8

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2013-07-22 23:08:20 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Brother Mercury wrote:
6 small neuts on me
my cap booster does nothing
I hope they buff NOS


EVE toon writes haiku
A shame it's on this forum
thread is now spiderman


I'm so happy now,
I didn't know GD could
do this stuff to me.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-07-22 23:10:22 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:

@bienator - i was told by other posters in a different topic that it was extremely difficult to keep weapons and other small cap usage modules turned off because any cap regen will fuel them and since cap recharges every sec u need to hit them non stop to keep the small cap regen from fueling the low cap usage modules. But u say 1 small is enough which sounds more manageable but does what they say have any truth to it?


i solo with a sentinel sometimes and can only say in my experience that one small neut is enough to keep most stuff off once the cap is empty. If you really want to make sure that its off use two. Thats what i do when i make an mistake and land in scram range which happens from time to time if you fight multiple targets.

people will try to activate things like weapons, tank or prop mods, all those things use a lot of cap, so even if they manage to enable SOMETHING its only one cycle. So don't panic you are not dead yet.

but again: as soon you see that the target has cap boosters you have to act differently

e.g: take a look at this fight where i start at scram range: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uifGwdqUhj0 (its actually a bad example because i overneuted at the end a bit too much) or this one against an cap injecting tristan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKZBIioDMK8


awesome thanks ill watch the vids. I tend to have a tough time seeing whats happening. Could you summarize some of the main points of the fights where decisions were made and why?
Whitehound
#17 - 2013-07-22 23:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
dethleffs wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Brother Mercury wrote:
6 small neuts on me
my cap booster does nothing
I hope they buff NOS


EVE toon writes haiku
A shame it's on this forum
thread is now spiderman


I'm so happy now,
I didn't know GD could
do this stuff to me.

Trolling not
we are
this forum.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-07-22 23:47:20 UTC
@bienator - what program are you using to make your videos its some of the best definition ive seen. I could read everything on the screen which was nice for me to understand better what was going on

he was using rail guns which us very little cap and he was capped out unable to fire? thats surprising. Would it work with 1 small neut or was the 3 you used needed to make it effective?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#19 - 2013-07-23 02:45:40 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
@bienator - what program are you using to make your videos its some of the best definition ive seen. I could read everything on the screen which was nice for me to understand better what was going on

he was using rail guns which us very little cap and he was capped out unable to fire? thats surprising. Would it work with 1 small neut or was the 3 you used needed to make it effective?



I am using OBS which is free and can be used to live stream or safe to disc. I don't edit anything and use almost default settings nothing fancy.

If you talk about the tristan he had a capacitor booster. So i cycled two neuts all the time. You can still see him repping from time to time but you can't really avoid that if he is a competent pilot and knows how to use cap boosters. I have 12s cap with everything turned on so i have to watch out. (sentinel has a neut amount bonus btw, so one neut is as good as two)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-07-23 03:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciyrine
watching your vids has made me more familiar with the attack frigates and the sentinel which is an awesome ship. Love its bonuses and drone bay. Even the gallente attack frigate has less drone bandwidth...nice :)
12Next page