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What am I missing about minmatar frigates?
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arktyus
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-07-22 05:55:30 UTC
I have both minmatar and gallente frigates fitted and the gallente frigs have a lot more dps than the minmatar frigates. What am missing? Does the speed of the minmatar frigates make up for this? Both using t2 guns with faction ammo antimatter. Vs plasma. Both have similar damage mods, yet the Ritter dps is much less than the incurses.
Theroine
Pew Pew Pirates
#2 - 2013-07-22 06:03:21 UTC
Maybe this will help.

Join in on the pew
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#3 - 2013-07-22 06:15:45 UTC
Faction AM has an optimal range of 1.1 km and falloff of 3.1 km assuming light neutrons and no tracking enhancers. The way falloff works - you are doing only 40% of your DPS at 4.2km. Shocked. Null is a safer bet with 3 + 4 km.

As for the Rifter - you get 6 km falloff with faction and 9 km falloff with barrage.
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-07-22 06:43:27 UTC
blasters always do more raw dps than autocannons. Autocannons always have more range. The secret to flying minmatar is kiting outside blaster range. The rifter however is not the best minmatar frigate to do that with anymore. Try the slasher its a much better at kiting.
ReZoon
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#5 - 2013-07-22 07:14:48 UTC
Andracin wrote:
blasters always do more raw dps than autocannons. Autocannons always have more range. The secret to flying minmatar is kiting outside blaster range. The rifter however is not the best minmatar frigate to do that with anymore. Try the slasher its a much better at kiting.


This, but then you have to stay away from rails, rockets, and drones....and scorch...and, well, you will own blaster boats and rifters! Oh, and AC thrashers too!

*Not saying you can't beat the others, but they have the advantage no doubt
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-07-22 08:31:46 UTC
Null is overpowered (Yes it is)

Minmatar ships are supposed to have selectable damage types and better projection range. All minmatar frigs rely on scramkiting and the slasher/breacher are pretty good at it.. the rifter is just awful.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#7 - 2013-07-22 11:27:04 UTC
You probably didn't read the DevBlog where they said they'd take the best frigate and make it amonst the worst.

The Gallente frigs have been pushed into territory the Rifter cannot compete with; the Incursus tanks stupidly; the Atron goes so fast it can often get scram-web-blasters or can rail kite Rifters to death; the Maulus has lol damps. Etc. The Rifter is...mediocre now, in terms of DPS, has no active tank bonus, no EWAR bonus...just average DPS, average maneuverability and average tank.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-07-23 09:59:17 UTC
I said it long before,

The rifter blows now.

You should of seen the rage and disagreeing noobs back then.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#9 - 2013-07-23 11:12:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
The key to win in a Minmatar Frigate against Blaster frigates is to have a Tracking Disruptor with range script and ideally a Scram + Web + AB. Then you just orbit at 5-6km and use AC with Barrage against the enemy. As you see you need 4 medium slots for this job.

BTW: If it turns out the enemy is using rails, then you swap your range script for a tracking disruption script and orbit at 500. Ideally you should also change Barrage for regular T1 ammo because of better tracking.
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-07-23 11:15:40 UTC
Breechers are really nasty.

Slashers are decent.

Rifters need a different slot alignment.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2013-07-23 13:55:43 UTC
Meditril wrote:
The key to win in a Minmatar Frigate against Blaster frigates is to have a Tracking Disruptor with range script and ideally a Scram + Web + AB. Then you just orbit at 5-6km and use AC with Barrage against the enemy. As you see you need 4 medium slots for this job.

BTW: If it turns out the enemy is using rails, then you swap your range script for a tracking disruption script and orbit at 500. Ideally you should also change Barrage for regular T1 ammo because of better tracking.



Unless said railgun opponent is bad you will still die. Slashers are very easy kills for a rail Incursus.

Source: I've done it about 40+ times and never failed.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#12 - 2013-07-23 17:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Firetails are decent. They aren't too expensive and they are fun to fly.

I want to like a rocket masb breacher, but alpha happens.

edit: people aren't too scared of firetails either like flying a dram.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#13 - 2013-07-23 21:25:57 UTC
Slashers are nice now with their combination of speed, 4 mids and ability to use small neut and still be cap stable. However they are generally paper thin and will die to anything that can grab a hold of them. Especially rifters.

Breachers are a good versitile ship now being able to brawl or kite with decent (not good) DPS from rockets/missiles and drones. The active tank bonus is nice and give them a lot of 'flavour' however most people ASB fit them which in reality only gives them about 21 sec of decent tank then you die as the shield HP is pretty low.

Rifter - the jack of all trades. Can do decent damage, decent speed, decent tank. It CAN specialise in these but at the detriment to everything else and even when specilising other races frigs that can do those specific jobs better. Thing with the rifter is that it can be pretty much counter fit to most if not all frigs in game. i.e. Dual rep incursus? Fit a neut/cap booster/small repper - orbit at 5km and kill it.



Minmatar are even more minmatar after the rebalances. They used to be arguably OP before but now they are the fast versitile race that has to rely on tactics rather than big numbers to win their fights.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2013-07-24 00:39:40 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Slashers are nice now with their combination of speed, 4 mids and ability to use small neut and still be cap stable. However they are generally paper thin and will die to anything that can grab a hold of them. Especially rifters.

Breachers are a good versitile ship now being able to brawl or kite with decent (not good) DPS from rockets/missiles and drones. The active tank bonus is nice and give them a lot of 'flavour' however most people ASB fit them which in reality only gives them about 21 sec of decent tank then you die as the shield HP is pretty low.

Rifter - the jack of all trades. Can do decent damage, decent speed, decent tank. It CAN specialise in these but at the detriment to everything else and even when specilising other races frigs that can do those specific jobs better. Thing with the rifter is that it can be pretty much counter fit to most if not all frigs in game. i.e. Dual rep incursus? Fit a neut/cap booster/small repper - orbit at 5km and kill it.



Minmatar are even more minmatar after the rebalances. They used to be arguably OP before but now they are the fast versitile race that has to rely on tactics rather than big numbers to win their fights.



ASB breacher kills a rifter 10 out of 10.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#15 - 2013-07-24 01:34:11 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Slashers are nice now with their combination of speed, 4 mids and ability to use small neut and still be cap stable. However they are generally paper thin and will die to anything that can grab a hold of them. Especially rifters.

Breachers are a good versitile ship now being able to brawl or kite with decent (not good) DPS from rockets/missiles and drones. The active tank bonus is nice and give them a lot of 'flavour' however most people ASB fit them which in reality only gives them about 21 sec of decent tank then you die as the shield HP is pretty low.

Rifter - the jack of all trades. Can do decent damage, decent speed, decent tank. It CAN specialise in these but at the detriment to everything else and even when specilising other races frigs that can do those specific jobs better. Thing with the rifter is that it can be pretty much counter fit to most if not all frigs in game. i.e. Dual rep incursus? Fit a neut/cap booster/small repper - orbit at 5km and kill it.



Minmatar are even more minmatar after the rebalances. They used to be arguably OP before but now they are the fast versitile race that has to rely on tactics rather than big numbers to win their fights.



ASB breacher kills a rifter 10 out of 10.


Not convinced.

A rifter can way outdamage a breacher, speed difference is negligable in a brawl and can tank the breachers damage long enough for him to run out of asb charges then it dies as the rifter farts at it.

Having said that through in this instance I would put it firmly down to the better pilot not the ship if they are similar fit. i.e both brawler. If both kiter then the breacher has an advantage as TD will affect rifter more than SD will affect breacher.

So IMO the better pilot will win in similar fits.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#16 - 2013-07-24 05:24:19 UTC
Somewhere between what the last 2 guys said is the truth! Big smile
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2013-07-24 07:33:13 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Slashers are nice now with their combination of speed, 4 mids and ability to use small neut and still be cap stable. However they are generally paper thin and will die to anything that can grab a hold of them. Especially rifters.

Breachers are a good versitile ship now being able to brawl or kite with decent (not good) DPS from rockets/missiles and drones. The active tank bonus is nice and give them a lot of 'flavour' however most people ASB fit them which in reality only gives them about 21 sec of decent tank then you die as the shield HP is pretty low.

Rifter - the jack of all trades. Can do decent damage, decent speed, decent tank. It CAN specialise in these but at the detriment to everything else and even when specilising other races frigs that can do those specific jobs better. Thing with the rifter is that it can be pretty much counter fit to most if not all frigs in game. i.e. Dual rep incursus? Fit a neut/cap booster/small repper - orbit at 5km and kill it.



Minmatar are even more minmatar after the rebalances. They used to be arguably OP before but now they are the fast versitile race that has to rely on tactics rather than big numbers to win their fights.



ASB breacher kills a rifter 10 out of 10.


Not convinced.

A rifter can way outdamage a breacher, speed difference is negligable in a brawl and can tank the breachers damage long enough for him to run out of asb charges then it dies as the rifter farts at it.

Having said that through in this instance I would put it firmly down to the better pilot not the ship if they are similar fit. i.e both brawler. If both kiter then the breacher has an advantage as TD will affect rifter more than SD will affect breacher.

So IMO the better pilot will win in similar fits.


Breacher outdps's and outtanks a rifter at 7km and its a lot faster.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Taoist Dragon
x Never Regret x
#18 - 2013-07-24 08:03:25 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

Not convinced.

A rifter can way outdamage a breacher, speed difference is negligable in a brawl and can tank the breachers damage long enough for him to run out of asb charges then it dies as the rifter farts at it.

Having said that through in this instance I would put it firmly down to the better pilot not the ship if they are similar fit. i.e both brawler. If both kiter then the breacher has an advantage as TD will affect rifter more than SD will affect breacher.

So IMO the better pilot will win in similar fits.


Breacher outdps's and outtanks a rifter at 7km and its a lot faster.
[/quote]

DPS is a bit higher at 7km but that doesn't take into account the rifters speed and low sig (maybe it does but I've not seen anything in HQ to show that vOv) But the speed difference isn't that great in a brawl and tops out at about 50m/s once both are webbed etc. Not enough to completely dictate range if the pilots know what they are doing?
As for the tank. Like all single asb fits it lasts about 21s. After that is has toilet paper for the next 60 secs so meh.

Like I said before I put the winner of a breacher/rifter fight down to the pilot who knows how to fight better in his ship. IMO the breacher is not 'better' than a rifter. Neither is the rifter 'better' than a breacher. They are different and now minnie pilots actual have to fly their ships are they don't always have the 'numbers' advantage that they may (not that I ever believed they did in the first place) have had in the past.

Ships get blown up all the time to other ships that 'shouldn't' be able to kill them. Pvp is about the player more than the ship when it comes to siimilar fits etc.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2013-07-24 08:19:48 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:


DPS is a bit higher at 7km but that doesn't take into account the rifters speed and low sig (maybe it does but I've not seen anything in HQ to show that vOv) But the speed difference isn't that great in a brawl and tops out at about 50m/s once both are webbed etc. Not enough to completely dictate range if the pilots know what they are doing?
As for the tank. Like all single asb fits it lasts about 21s. After that is has toilet paper for the next 60 secs so meh.

Like I said before I put the winner of a breacher/rifter fight down to the pilot who knows how to fight better in his ship. IMO the breacher is not 'better' than a rifter. Neither is the rifter 'better' than a breacher. They are different and now minnie pilots actual have to fly their ships are they don't always have the 'numbers' advantage that they may (not that I ever believed they did in the first place) have had in the past.

Ships get blown up all the time to other ships that 'shouldn't' be able to kill them. Pvp is about the player more than the ship when it comes to siimilar fits etc.


Well imo the breacher has better tank, better damage application, better range and its faster.

its not much of a contest (Also note that most breacher fits have an overdrive) I'm fairly confident i would take a rifter 10/10 times in a breacher.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#20 - 2013-07-24 09:37:33 UTC
Well...he did say it depends on the pilot. Other people's mileage may vary compared to yours.

I dual MASB my Breachers and hunt Coraxes. Sure, its like picking on the short bus, but it works.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~