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Recruitment channel and scamming - Clarification

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#21 - 2011-11-10 01:04:04 UTC
I have a hard time caring about this.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-11-10 01:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Its just one lousy channel...and you "scammers" are treating it like someoen ran over your dog.

You guys ever spend any time in recruitment? Seriously?

It's bad enough we get the market-tards who sell crap in there.

You got local..you got every other public channel out there.

CCP hanging up a "no scam/sell zone sign" in recruitment means dont pollute the waters.

In all honesty you people make it harder for us to recruit when your scaring the bloody propects off casue your robbing them blind.

Again...I have no problems with scamming...but this is just one ####ing channel...get over yourselves...sheesh.

Go hang out in jita or something if its that big of a deal or make your own recruitment channels.

Why aren't you screamnig about not being allowed to scam in the help channel eh?

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#23 - 2011-11-10 01:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Rer Eirikr
This sounds a lot like the War Dec rules reasoning:

Lets keep it grey so CCP can just ban people without having a clearcut set of "Things You Can Do" and "Things You Can't Do".

Even this, eventually, was put into more black and white terms so as to cut down on the amount of work GMs had to do. Can you imagine all of the petitions, escalations, and burdens of proof they'd have to go through with this rule? Having grey areas also makes it harder on the GMs, unless they literally just start banning people without proving their reasoning, because that always ends well.

I mean if that's what CCP wants to do fine but, that doesn't really make sense to me in a Sandbox setting where the very essence of Player Interaction is what drives sales and new players coming to the game.


Drake Draconis wrote:
Why aren't you screamnig about not being allowed to scam in the help channel eh?


Because there's a small difference between "Helping someone learn how to play" and "Inviting someone to a Corporation in a game where scamming is not only tolerated but advertised"
BrokenBC
no tax's are us
#24 - 2011-11-10 01:31:59 UTC
I for one play the game because of the sandbox not despite it.Should the freedom to scam or be scammed be removed,then the sandbox is dead.I for one would like to hear from CCP on this.They seem hell bent on destroying everything they built in order to placate the WOW rejects that really never understood what eve had to offer in the first place.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-11-10 01:59:14 UTC
Quote:
[18:16:37] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted.No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation’s recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums.


I made the relevant part of the MOTD bold and underlined for those that didn't train reading comprehension to level 5.

It's very clear that no scamming is allowed in the recruitment channel. Does not say you cannot scam, cheat, steal and lie your way through every other aspect in EVE. Goons can rest easy now that their main entertainment stream hasn't been removed.

No more tears required ladies, go about your business now.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-11-10 02:00:32 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Quote:
[18:16:37] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted.No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation’s recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums.


I made the relevant part of the MOTD bold and underlined for those that didn't train reading comprehension to level 5.

It's very clear that no scamming is allowed in the recruitment channel. Does not say you cannot scam, cheat, steal and lie your way through every other aspect in EVE. Goons can rest easy now that their main entertainment stream hasn't been removed.

No more tears required ladies, go about your business now.


Like ive been saying..... its just one ####ing channel.

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2011-11-10 02:06:54 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:


I made the relevant part of the MOTD bold and underlined for those that didn't train reading comprehension to level 5.

It's very clear that no scamming is allowed in the recruitment channel. Does not say you cannot scam, cheat, steal and lie your way through every other aspect in EVE. Goons can rest easy now that their main entertainment stream hasn't been removed.

No more tears required ladies, go about your business now.



So what happens when you scam me and i just claim you did it from the recruitment channel, you know, that channel that is spammed 23/7?

You expect me to believe that CCP keeps accurate logs of that, this, the company that can't tell you if your ship was in a tower or not?

All you need do is make the claim, and with CCP's recent heavy handed ban first ask questions later it opens up a world of problems.

Not to mention that corp scamming is as old as the game, why is it suddenly illegitimate to recruitment scam?


Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-11-10 02:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
Grath Telkin wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:


I made the relevant part of the MOTD bold and underlined for those that didn't train reading comprehension to level 5.

It's very clear that no scamming is allowed in the recruitment channel. Does not say you cannot scam, cheat, steal and lie your way through every other aspect in EVE. Goons can rest easy now that their main entertainment stream hasn't been removed.

No more tears required ladies, go about your business now.



So what happens when you scam me and i just claim you did it from the recruitment channel, you know, that channel that is spammed 23/7?

You expect me to believe that CCP keeps accurate logs of that, this, the company that can't tell you if your ship was in a tower or not?

All you need do is make the claim, and with CCP's recent heavy handed ban first ask questions later it opens up a world of problems.

Not to mention that corp scamming is as old as the game, why is it suddenly illegitimate to recruitment scam?




So let me get this straight, you are saying that as CCP don't keep accurate logs (allegedly) that if I were to scam you and you cry that it was from the recruitment channel that CCP would check the logs that they supposedly don't keep accurately anyway to see that I did in fact scam you from the recruitment channel?

If they don't have accurate logs as you claim, then what is the ******* problem? Scam away! They will never be able to prove it according to your theory but I can definitely see a flaw in your river of tears. The inaccurate log argument works both ways. You are really dumb if you can't see that.

CCP will probably never check the logs either way, for the scammer or for the scammee.

Once again for the PL idiots, they only asked that YOU DO NOT SCAM IN THE RECRUITMENT CHANNEL. (made that last bit stand out for you as you seem to be unable to comprehend the easy bits)
Trusty Jutspezic
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2011-11-10 02:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Trusty Jutspezic
Drake Draconis wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
Quote:
[18:16:37] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted.No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation’s recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums.


I made the relevant part of the MOTD bold and underlined for those that didn't train reading comprehension to level 5.

It's very clear that no scamming is allowed in the recruitment channel. Does not say you cannot scam, cheat, steal and lie your way through every other aspect in EVE. Goons can rest easy now that their main entertainment stream hasn't been removed.

No more tears required ladies, go about your business now.


Like ive been saying..... its just one ####ing channel.


Bolded the part we're all concerned about, bub. The way that's worded makes actions outside the channel subject to the arbitrary whims of whatever banhappy butan-jockey is manning the GM posts nowadays.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-11-10 02:57:19 UTC
Trusty Jutspezic wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
Quote:
[18:16:37] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted.No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation’s recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums.


I made the relevant part of the MOTD bold and underlined for those that didn't train reading comprehension to level 5.

It's very clear that no scamming is allowed in the recruitment channel. Does not say you cannot scam, cheat, steal and lie your way through every other aspect in EVE. Goons can rest easy now that their main entertainment stream hasn't been removed.

No more tears required ladies, go about your business now.


Like ive been saying..... its just one ####ing channel.


Bolded the part we're all concerned about, bub. The way that's worded makes actions outside the channel subject to the arbitrary whims of whatever banhappy butan-jockey is manning the GM posts nowadays.


*SIGH* No, you emboldened the part scammers are concerned about. I suspect the vast majority of EVE doesn't even know there is a recruitment channel. Even if they did, I doubt they would care that PL/Goons can't get their jollies on scamming the gullible.

If you are that worried about being banned, don't scam anyone. If you don't care, scam away.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2011-11-10 02:59:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
God you are dumb

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2011-11-10 03:00:14 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
-

So let me get this straight, you are saying that as CCP don't keep accurate logs (allegedly) that if I were to scam you and you cry that it was from the recruitment channel that CCP would check the logs that they supposedly don't keep accurately anyway to see that I did in fact scam you from the recruitment channel?


Once again for the PL idiots, they only asked that YOU DO NOT SCAM IN THE RECRUITMENT CHANNEL. (made that last bit stand out for you as you seem to be unable to comprehend the easy bits)


Since you are so dumb, that you need everything layed out plainly for you:


Trusty Jutspezic wrote:
][18:16:37] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted.No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation’s recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums.





A goon was nice enough to do it for you.

Now the easy opt out for ANY SCAM is to say you were first contacted through the recruitment channel. You then probably get whatever was scammed back, and the scammer banned.

I know as dumb as you are that its hard to get your head around that, but you...

wait for it....\

DON'T NEED LOGS TO PROVE ANY OF IT

All they need do with that wording is suggest you contacted them after you were in the recruitment channel and suddenly they're a criminal, which is stupid.

Recruitment scamming is an old tradition in EVE, scamming period is an old tradition in EVE, thats brought a lot of business, this basically kills it in one sentence, by giving the person scammed the option of just saying "He met me in the recruitment channel then scammed me outside of it".

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2011-11-10 03:04:10 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:


*SIGH* No, you emboldened the part scammers are concerned about. I suspect the vast majority of EVE doesn't even know there is a recruitment channel. Even if they did, I doubt they would care that PL/Goons can't get their jollies on scamming the gullible.


What you mean that channel that opens up every time you join an NPC corp or start a new account?

Smiling Menace wrote:
If you are that worried about being banned, don't scam anyone. If you don't care, scam away.


No this is stupid, thats the point, EVE wouldn't have half its players if it weren't for the high profile scams that have gone on in it (cited as one of the biggest draws to the game, the old GHSC scams)

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-11-10 03:18:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
Grath Telkin wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:


*SIGH* No, you emboldened the part scammers are concerned about. I suspect the vast majority of EVE doesn't even know there is a recruitment channel. Even if they did, I doubt they would care that PL/Goons can't get their jollies on scamming the gullible.


What you mean that channel that opens up every time you join an NPC corp or start a new account?

Smiling Menace wrote:
If you are that worried about being banned, don't scam anyone. If you don't care, scam away.


No this is stupid, thats the point, EVE wouldn't have half its players if it weren't for the high profile scams that have gone on in it (cited as one of the biggest draws to the game, the old GHSC scams)


Sorry, it's been a long time since I was in an NPC corp or started a new account so I don't really remember which channels were open on default. Bit sad to be scamming new players as they don't have anything anyway.

I don't mean to be rude here but I have to call bullshit on 50% of the EVE player base only playing because they heard about some scams.

I will bet you that in a straw poll the majority of players that joined in the last few years didn't even know about most of the major scams.

Personally I think you are all reading too much into this and creating drama where there is none.

You are trying to work out hypothetical scenarios that have no basis in fact. Scam and get banned when not scamming in the recruitment channel then I will see your point of view. Until then, be careful out there....even the GMs will scam you.TwistedTwisted
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#35 - 2011-11-10 03:20:32 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
[ know as dumb as you are that its hard to get your head around that, but you...

wait for it....\

DON'T NEED LOGS TO PROVE ANY OF IT

All they need do with that wording is suggest you contacted them after you were in the recruitment channel and suddenly they're a criminal, which is stupid.


I'm sure Goons are smart enough to figure out that the way around this is to have a single representative in the recruitment channel, and make the scam recruitment offers from an uninvolved third party, aren't they?

Or if it turns out that "victims" don't need logs to "prove" that they were scammed, you could just contract a heap of stuff to someone you don't like, then tell CCP that they recruitment-scammed you! OMG! How easy would that be to exploit?

Why are you complaining about this instead of forming new meta-scams?

I swear, the reason you guys love The Mittani so much is because he's the only one with a brain.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-11-10 03:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Smiling Menace
Grath Telkin wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
-

So let me get this straight, you are saying that as CCP don't keep accurate logs (allegedly) that if I were to scam you and you cry that it was from the recruitment channel that CCP would check the logs that they supposedly don't keep accurately anyway to see that I did in fact scam you from the recruitment channel?


Once again for the PL idiots, they only asked that YOU DO NOT SCAM IN THE RECRUITMENT CHANNEL. (made that last bit stand out for you as you seem to be unable to comprehend the easy bits)


Since you are so dumb, that you need everything layed out plainly for you:


Trusty Jutspezic wrote:
][18:16:37] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Welcome to the recruitment channel. This channel is intended for those players looking to find a new corporation, as well as those looking to enlist new players. Other activities, such as non-recruitment discussion is not permitted.No scamming is allowed in this channel and this includes, but not limited to, using the recruitment channel as a platform to find or target players to scam. As per subject, we ask everyone to use their best judgment before contracting assets or ISK as part of corporation’s recruitment process and any deals made or finalized outside this channel are done at your own risk and responsibility.An additional recruitment source is the Alliance and Corporation Recruitment Center section of the forums.





A goon was nice enough to do it for you.

Now the easy opt out for ANY SCAM is to say you were first contacted through the recruitment channel. You then probably get whatever was scammed back, and the scammer banned.

I know as dumb as you are that its hard to get your head around that, but you...

wait for it....\

DON'T NEED LOGS TO PROVE ANY OF IT

All they need do with that wording is suggest you contacted them after you were in the recruitment channel and suddenly they're a criminal, which is stupid.

Recruitment scamming is an old tradition in EVE, scamming period is an old tradition in EVE, thats brought a lot of business, this basically kills it in one sentence, by giving the person scammed the option of just saying "He met me in the recruitment channel then scammed me outside of it".


Well going with your utterly stupid scenario, why not just counter claim that he scammed you from the recruitment channel first? A double-double scam.

I know as dumb as you are that its hard to get your head around that, but you...

wait for it....\

DON'T NEED LOGS TO PROVE ANY OF IT

Jesus dude, use your brain before posting.

Right, just to make myself really clear on this...your argument is anyone can make any claim that they were scammed from the recruitment channel but don't need logs to prove anything. If that's the case the argument works in reverse for the scammer too.

It all falls apart if the claims made in this thread that CCP don't keep accurate logs and don't check them is pure conjecture and bullshit spread by certain elements in EVE.

*EDIT*

And by the way? The longer you keep this thread going the more chance that people that have been scammed will use this as an excuse so......
Steelshine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-11-10 03:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Steelshine
CCP, one step forward with the winter patch.


Three steps back supporting the standard of retardation and communication blunders.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6C9RBMCJOY
Elenor Pewpew
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-11-10 04:09:30 UTC
Albeit attempting to argue with the empire dwelling pubbies in here, I'll just add my voice to say I do not like this change to the MOTD of the recruitment channel.
Probably Smashed
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2011-11-10 04:30:51 UTC
I see a lot of complaints about 'Goonwaffe scamming newbies'.
Newbies don't have any isk, why would we scam them?
Harold Tuphlos
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2011-11-10 04:31:59 UTC
ccp still being :ccp: