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Why nerf high sec?

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CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#261 - 2013-07-21 21:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So, basically, you want scrams removed because you think the chickenshits deserve to get to play, too? Not enough no in the world to express my thoughts about that. My command of the English language is not sufficient to tell you how wrong you are, and I have a VAST vocabulary.

So I'll just say this. The people who can't stomach a loss, and don't even try for fear of failure? Those people are the food for the real EVE players.


that chickenshit is obviously you.. docking up or warping at pos if slightest threat enters local.

alot hisec chars are alts.
alot hisec players cannot afford to lose ships.

he cant be chickenshit for that? or wut?

so dumb.. so shortsighted.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#262 - 2013-07-21 21:30:58 UTC
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So, basically, you want scrams removed because you think the chickenshits deserve to get to play, too? Not enough no in the world to express my thoughts about that. My command of the English language is not sufficient to tell you how wrong you are, and I have a VAST vocabulary.

So I'll just say this. The people who can't stomach a loss, and don't even try for fear of failure? Those people are the food for the real EVE players.


that chickenshit is obviously you.. docking up or warping at pos if slightest threat enters local.



Did you miss the part where I said I lived in highsec? Or the other thread, where I am literally crying from laughing so hard at the people who dock up when they see a cloaker?

The people who refuse to even countenance pvp because they might get scrammed, and actually have the choice to attack come back to bite them? Yeah, that's a chickenshit.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#263 - 2013-07-21 21:35:33 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Nullsec is better off a no-mans land, not some paved over strip-malled space with the only differences being it's a player who "owns" it and you "have to be blue".


Shouldn't that be the decision of the people who live in it?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#264 - 2013-07-21 21:37:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Did you miss the part where I said I lived in highsec? Or the other thread, where I am literally crying from laughing so hard at the people who dock up when they see a cloaker?

The people who refuse to even countenance pvp because they might get scrammed, and actually have the choice to attack come back to bite them? Yeah, that's a chickenshit.


then gtfo if you have no idea about null. Big smile
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#265 - 2013-07-21 21:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Did you miss the part where I said I lived in highsec? Or the other thread, where I am literally crying from laughing so hard at the people who dock up when they see a cloaker?

The people who refuse to even countenance pvp because they might get scrammed, and actually have the choice to attack come back to bite them? Yeah, that's a chickenshit.


then gtfo if you have no idea about null. Big smile


Then you also missed the part where my main (yep, I went there) was in null before Dominion(and quit as a result). Seriously, if this kind of absurdly obvious strawman is all you have in the holster, you are in above your head.

Now, do you actually have an argument to present?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#266 - 2013-07-21 21:52:10 UTC
People have been whining and moaning about changing hi-sec since it existed.

They are pretty uppity these days too, but chances are that nothing will come of this bemoaning as hi-sec was added for a reason and it's mostly to keep casual gamers entertained.

Simply saying to the casuals, "you are not wanted, this sandbox is not for you" is just bad for business so its unlikely CCP will ever go that route.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#267 - 2013-07-21 22:08:00 UTC
Quote:
Simply saying to the casuals, "you are not wanted, this sandbox is not for you" is just bad for business so its unlikely CCP will ever go that route.


You misunderstand entirely.

They can play the game. Nothing stops them.

But if they are going to play the way that a lot of highsec "players" do, they better get used to the idea of being food.

But, the idea of being food, the idea of being (and rightly so) in the lower class, is bad juju for the self esteem generation. Hence the whining. Hence the constant nerfs to ganking, over and over again. (CONCORD used to be tank-able, for instance, and being killed by them used to give insurance)

So basically, down with whiners, down with whining. If you chose to play like a sheep, then you're a sheep, get used to it or learn to play the game the right way.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#268 - 2013-07-21 22:16:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Simply saying to the casuals, "you are not wanted, this sandbox is not for you" is just bad for business so its unlikely CCP will ever go that route.


You misunderstand entirely.

They can play the game. Nothing stops them.

But if they are going to play the way that a lot of highsec "players" do, they better get used to the idea of being food.

But, the idea of being food, the idea of being (and rightly so) in the lower class, is bad juju for the self esteem generation. Hence the whining. Hence the constant nerfs to ganking, over and over again. (CONCORD used to be tank-able, for instance, and being killed by them used to give insurance)

So basically, down with whiners, down with whining. If you chose to play like a sheep, then you're a sheep, get used to it or learn to play the game the right way.


So when CCP says "Oh this game is a sandbox." They really meant "Nope. Sorry. This is not really a sandbox because unless you play a certain way, you are just bad and we don't really like receiving your money. Please quit the game and give your money to someone else."

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2013-07-21 22:19:31 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:


So when CCP says "Oh this game is a sandbox." They really meant "Nope. Sorry. This is not really a sandbox because unless you play a certain way, you are just bad and we don't really like receiving your money. Please quit the game and give your money to someone else."



Risk vs Reward is supposed to be a thing, and if the reward remains as skewed as it is, than the risk means that it isn't worth it.

You would hear screams for weeks if they cranked down Empire stations manufacturing capabilites to the same extent that a player built station has to live with, not to mention office availability, ONE station per system in SOV etc etc.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#270 - 2013-07-21 22:28:51 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:


So when CCP says "Oh this game is a sandbox." They really meant "Nope. Sorry. This is not really a sandbox because unless you play a certain way, you are just bad and we don't really like receiving your money. Please quit the game and give your money to someone else."



Risk vs Reward is supposed to be a thing, and if the reward remains as skewed as it is, than the risk means that it isn't worth it.

You would hear screams for weeks if they cranked down Empire stations manufacturing capabilites to the same extent that a player built station has to live with, not to mention office availability, ONE station per system in SOV etc etc.



Scenario time!

What is more risky:

1. Mining in Nullsec with an alliance behind you. A neutral enters local so you dock until they leave.
When they are gone you go back to mining. It is very rare anyone visits your system at all.

2. Mining in Highsec. There are 100 people in local. You mine and one of those random people gank you out of the blue. You had no warning or any other sign that this would happen other than the fact there are a hundred people in local.

I'm not saying mining in Null Sec is less complicated. You need permission first and that requires some politics, but in general you know bad crap is going to happen when you see people show up. Unless an AFK cloaker decides to ruin your day. Well if they do you should complain on the forums.

Also I forgot this option:

3. Mining in a Worm Hole. You can't see local. You die every time you go to mine because random jerk offs can warp to anomalies now without scanning. Why are you mining in a worm hole again?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#271 - 2013-07-21 22:30:28 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Simply saying to the casuals, "you are not wanted, this sandbox is not for you" is just bad for business so its unlikely CCP will ever go that route.


You misunderstand entirely.

They can play the game. Nothing stops them.

But if they are going to play the way that a lot of highsec "players" do, they better get used to the idea of being food.

But, the idea of being food, the idea of being (and rightly so) in the lower class, is bad juju for the self esteem generation. Hence the whining. Hence the constant nerfs to ganking, over and over again. (CONCORD used to be tank-able, for instance, and being killed by them used to give insurance)

So basically, down with whiners, down with whining. If you chose to play like a sheep, then you're a sheep, get used to it or learn to play the game the right way.


So when CCP says "Oh this game is a sandbox." They really meant "Nope. Sorry. This is not really a sandbox because unless you play a certain way, you are just bad and we don't really like receiving your money. Please quit the game and give your money to someone else."


I see you've learned nothing at all in your time here. For instanc,e you haven't learned what "sandbox" means.

Sandbox doesn't mean that you can do what you want without consequence, it means that EVERYONE can do what they want to, that includes twisting your arm to get you to comply with their will (and vice versa, you can resist).

That's what's good about EVE,it's player driven. Some of those players are bastards.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#272 - 2013-07-21 22:32:17 UTC
Quote:
So when CCP says "Oh this game is a sandbox." They really meant "Nope. Sorry. This is not really a sandbox because unless you play a certain way, you are just bad and we don't really like receiving your money. Please quit the game and give your money to someone else."


Not even close. A sandbox game means you can try to succeed at anything you want.

Not that you will succeed at anything you want to try.

Bad play is not an excuse to dumb down the game. Yeah, you can play however you want. You just shouldn't be surprised when it fails.

And you shouldn't be surprised when, if you act like a sheep, someone comes along to shear you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#273 - 2013-07-21 22:37:22 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:


So when CCP says "Oh this game is a sandbox." They really meant "Nope. Sorry. This is not really a sandbox because unless you play a certain way, you are just bad and we don't really like receiving your money. Please quit the game and give your money to someone else."



Risk vs Reward is supposed to be a thing, and if the reward remains as skewed as it is, than the risk means that it isn't worth it.

You would hear screams for weeks if they cranked down Empire stations manufacturing capabilites to the same extent that a player built station has to live with, not to mention office availability, ONE station per system in SOV etc etc.



Scenario time!

What is more risky:

1. Mining in Nullsec with an alliance behind you. A neutral enters local so you dock until they leave.
When they are gone you go back to mining. It is very rare anyone visits your system at all.

2. Mining in Highsec. There are 100 people in local. You mine and one of those random people gank you out of the blue. You had no warning or any other sign that this would happen other than the fact there are a hundred people in local.

I'm not saying mining in Null Sec is less complicated. You need permission first and that requires some politics, but in general you know bad crap is going to happen when you see people show up. Unless an AFK cloaker decides to ruin your day. Well if they do you should complain on the forums.

Also I forgot this option:

3. Mining in a Worm Hole. You can't see local. You die every time you go to mine because random jerk offs can warp to anomalies now without scanning. Why are you mining in a worm hole again?


Dear Space God, not that silly and uttlery dumb "it's safer becaus eyou can see it coming" fallacy. More lie than fallacy.

It's like saying Somalia is safer than Martha's Vineyard because at least you can see the skinny dudes with rifles from a distance. It's uttlery stupid thinking.

Null Sec has 7 times as many pvp deaths as high sec dispite having something like only 10% of EVE's population to high sec's 70+%. How is a place with soooooooo much more killing magically safer than the place where killing is rare. Hell, more people die to PVE in high sec than high sec pvp.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#274 - 2013-07-21 22:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Oh why do I even try talking to you people. You people are so engrained in your elitism that you have the delusion that CCP writes patches just for your sole entertainment.

Arguing with you on the forums is just a waste of time because we know full well that you don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I mean for example if you guys had your way the exhumer buff would have never happened, but yet it did.

[edit]

And if null was that broken, why hasn't the last patch addressed that? Is CCP too busy taking care of other things besides null?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#275 - 2013-07-21 22:39:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
So when CCP says "Oh this game is a sandbox." They really meant "Nope. Sorry. This is not really a sandbox because unless you play a certain way, you are just bad and we don't really like receiving your money. Please quit the game and give your money to someone else."


Not even close. A sandbox game means you can try to succeed at anything you want.

Not that you will succeed at anything you want to try.

Bad play is not an excuse to dumb down the game. Yeah, you can play however you want. You just shouldn't be surprised when it fails.

And you shouldn't be surprised when, if you act like a sheep, someone comes along to shear you.



It's like in real life. Some people don't want "equality of oppurtunity", they want "equality of OUTCOME" is they want to be able to make any decision they want and not suffer for it.

Screw that, IRL and in EVE.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#276 - 2013-07-21 22:42:30 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Oh why do I even try talking to you people. You people are so engrained in your elitism that you have the delusion that CCP writes patches just for your sole entertainment.


Good logic is not eliteism unless the opponent is a special needs child lol.

We are arguing for a good and responsible philosophy, and by posting we are letting CCP know that not all of their customers are whiney, short sighted entitled welfare recipients. Some of us LIKE the challenges of the game and support a theory of game balance that delivers that rather than the comfort you and your ilk seek.

Quote:

Arguing with you on the forums is just a waste of time because we know full well that you don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I mean for example if you guys had your way the exhumer buff would have never happened, but yet it did.


Yes, it was one of the rare cases in which CCP folded. We hope it won't happen again.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#277 - 2013-07-21 22:43:23 UTC
Quote:
It's like in real life. Some people don't want "equality of oppurtunity", they want "equality of OUTCOME" is they want to be able to make any decision they want and not suffer for it.

Screw that, IRL and in EVE.


I... did you ever attend UNLV?

I said the same thing at a student body presidential debate years ago. I thought I had come up with the term.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2013-07-21 22:43:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:


So when CCP says "Oh this game is a sandbox." They really meant "Nope. Sorry. This is not really a sandbox because unless you play a certain way, you are just bad and we don't really like receiving your money. Please quit the game and give your money to someone else."



Risk vs Reward is supposed to be a thing, and if the reward remains as skewed as it is, than the risk means that it isn't worth it.

You would hear screams for weeks if they cranked down Empire stations manufacturing capabilites to the same extent that a player built station has to live with, not to mention office availability, ONE station per system in SOV etc etc.



Scenario time!

What is more risky:

1. Mining in Nullsec with an alliance behind you. A neutral enters local so you dock until they leave.
When they are gone you go back to mining. It is very rare anyone visits your system at all.

2. Mining in Highsec. There are 100 people in local. You mine and one of those random people gank you out of the blue. You had no warning or any other sign that this would happen other than the fact there are a hundred people in local.

I'm not saying mining in Null Sec is less complicated. You need permission first and that requires some politics, but in general you know bad crap is going to happen when you see people show up. Unless an AFK cloaker decides to ruin your day. Well if they do you should complain on the forums.

Also I forgot this option:

3. Mining in a Worm Hole. You can't see local. You die every time you go to mine because random jerk offs can warp to anomalies now without scanning. Why are you mining in a worm hole again?




....and what is more risky, moving a hauler full of ore in hi sec, or running back and forth from null.

Better have a few accounts because I have been wardec'd by various market camper "mercs" for almost the entire time I have lived in null.

....and have fun burning 27,000 isotopes at a time getting **** back and forth to jita.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#279 - 2013-07-21 22:47:50 UTC
Look if the forums were that important CCP wouldn't have the need to send out the surveys now would they?

Because you play forum warrior doesn't mean that you are going to get preferential treatment.

If CCP listened to the forums they would have gotten rid of hi-sec ages ago and added hundreds of terrible changes from all those random people blabbing away about how CCP should listen to them.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#280 - 2013-07-21 22:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Look if the forums were that important CCP wouldn't have the need to send out the surveys now would they?

Because you play forum warrior doesn't mean that you are going to get preferential treatment.

If CCP listened to the forums they would have gotten rid of hi-sec ages ago and added hundreds of terrible changes from all those random people blabbing away about how CCP should listen to them.


CCP sends out those surveys (and I know this because I worked in marketing, and insurance, for years) to determine how effective their marketing and advertising is. They also use it to get a feel of the player climate. That's it.

And if by "preferential treatment" you mean, "actually using the tools given to me", then hell yes I get them. But not because I forum warrior, but because I actually accept the game for what it is, enjoy it, and use what's in front of me.

Knowledge is power, after all. Sucks to be a have-not, but you can fix it if you fix yourself. But that message doesn't grok well with the self esteem generation. And, as I have said before, thus the whining.

[Edit: And if the forums weren't important, they wouldn't base much of their ship rebalancing on player feedback. They literally have an entire forum dedicated to it, and former players are their dev team.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.