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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1121 - 2013-07-21 20:27:20 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all i said was gardes are OP combined with domis bonuses.... you kicked up the fuss mate



How many full fleets of done ships have you fought?

As it pertains to this topic, the Ishtar is still going to be far from OP because of fitting. This is a ship that basically can't fit turrets because it is so hosed by its fittings.

For Domis, just get into the drone field with smartboms, or bomb them, NO battleship can carry more than 4 full flights.


you're kind of missing the point here..... gardes are tracking like autocannons but with Artie range on Domis... this is clearly wrong and unbalanced.
stop making this about dronebays and losing drones .. that is a different issue altogether



No it isn't mainly because its permanently counterable. You have to dock up or scoop more drones in space. There is no otherway to refill the drone bay.

and garde range is nothing close to 1400mm arty range, more like 720, their big advantage is sig radius.....tracking is really a secondary concern.


Bias is blinding ... it even beats a scorch Apoc for range unless the apoc fits 3 TC's with op range but still easily outracks the Apoc

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1122 - 2013-07-21 20:28:27 UTC
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Ok for all of you who didn't watch the alliance tournament, Fozzie and Rise commented on this thread and Rise said that in regard to the feedback everyone has given, he is going to look again at the hacs as he initially he is a bit conservative when making changes to ships in eve.

So my advice would start posting coherent arguments on changes you want to see. Because there will be changes.


He only really said their resilience will be boosted which isn't what most people actually want the most

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Christopher Multsanti
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#1123 - 2013-07-21 20:33:15 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
He only really said their resilience will be boosted which isn't what most people actually want the most


He is hardly going to mention every single change he might have planned in 30 seconds.

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#1124 - 2013-07-21 20:37:48 UTC
With T2 ships being more specialized, why not buff the weapon bonuses on all of them(5% becomes 7.5%, 10% becomes 12.5%) but limit this to one weapon. HAMs for Sac, Pulses(or Beams if think that'd be better) for Zealot etc.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1125 - 2013-07-21 20:46:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Travasty Space wrote:
With T2 ships being more specialized, why not buff the weapon bonuses on all of them(5% becomes 7.5%, 10% becomes 12.5%) but limit this to one weapon. HAMs for Sac, Pulses(or Beams if think that'd be better) for Zealot etc.


makes sense cos atm HAC's aren't looking very specialist in any which way you look at it

if they were all limited to short range weapons and were all vaga style ships that mwd would actually make sense as a role bonus but atm half the ships are only going to be AB fits.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
JerseyBOI 2
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1126 - 2013-07-21 20:47:10 UTC  |  Edited by: JerseyBOI 2
Harvey James wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all i said was gardes are OP combined with domis bonuses.... you kicked up the fuss mate



How many full fleets of done ships have you fought?

As it pertains to this topic, the Ishtar is still going to be far from OP because of fitting. This is a ship that basically can't fit turrets because it is so hosed by its fittings.

For Domis, just get into the drone field with smartboms, or bomb them, NO battleship can carry more than 4 full flights.


you're kind of missing the point here..... gardes are tracking like autocannons but with Artie range on Domis... this is clearly wrong and unbalanced.
stop making this about dronebays and losing drones .. that is a different issue altogether



But that is what its about so no matter how much unicorn riding you do drones have serious disadvantages and DESERVE some unique advantages. Jeez AT comes around, teams use domis so by defacto there OP lol...herd mentality
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1127 - 2013-07-21 20:52:55 UTC
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all i said was gardes are OP combined with domis bonuses.... you kicked up the fuss mate



How many full fleets of done ships have you fought?

As it pertains to this topic, the Ishtar is still going to be far from OP because of fitting. This is a ship that basically can't fit turrets because it is so hosed by its fittings.

For Domis, just get into the drone field with smartboms, or bomb them, NO battleship can carry more than 4 full flights.


you're kind of missing the point here..... gardes are tracking like autocannons but with Artie range on Domis... this is clearly wrong and unbalanced.
stop making this about dronebays and losing drones .. that is a different issue altogether



But that is what its about so no matter how much unicorn riding you do drones have serious disadvantages and DESERVE some unique advantages. Jeez AT comes around, teams use domis so by defacto there OP lol...herd mentality


they have an excellent advantage of being able to assign drones and that jamming the ship doens't stop their dps...
all weapons have disadvantages .. mostly they can have their dps stopped in many different ways..

Also the fact that domis are winning every match tells you they are OP and that gardes are better than heavy drones

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1128 - 2013-07-21 21:05:45 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
gardes are better than heavy drones

Only because Ogres have absolute **** for MWD velocity.
All drones need reworked, this is not that.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Christopher Multsanti
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#1129 - 2013-07-21 21:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Multsanti
Harvey James wrote:
loads of words about domis or something


Stop shit posting and start talking about hacs. Thanks in advance.

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#1130 - 2013-07-21 21:08:46 UTC
So tech 2 ships are supposed to be specialized for a specific role,

adding a 50% reduction in Signature Radius Penalty from Microwarp Drives is marginally acceptable for the HAC role Roll

What is not acceptable however is making the Eagle stand or fall by railgun changes, the ship needs to be improved,

if you going to depend the Eagle to specialize through railgun changes at least add some drones for close encounters man !

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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1131 - 2013-07-21 21:15:58 UTC
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:
But that is what its about so no matter how much unicorn riding you do drones have serious disadvantages and DESERVE some unique advantages. Jeez AT comes around, teams use domis so by defacto there OP lol...herd mentality

So the thread lamenting about assigned sentries in null blob warfare a few weeks ago was written by a prescient, seeing as it is only an AT phenomenon? Big smile

There is very little one can do to survive an assigned sentry swarm, the one thing that comes to mind is not being there to be mauled, hardly an enticing option and a rather bad sign balance wise. Problem surfaced now (after last patch) as the amount of ships fielding full sets has increased and we now have drone damage mods/rigs.

Sentry drones, and drones in general for that matter, should have capacitor values and drain from weaponry to make them vulnerable to primarily voids but also regular neuting.
One should be able to jam/td/damp a full set of five by applying the eWar to any of the five (use host ships stats for ease of implementation).

In return the sentry abusers/lovers can get the "return command" for their pets so one doesn't have to haul ass all over creation to gather them up.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1132 - 2013-07-21 21:19:23 UTC
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
loads of words about domis or something


Stop shit posting and start talking about hacs. Thanks in advance.


i have posted probably more than anyone on HACS in this thread... also ishtar is going to be mini domi so it is relevant to the thread

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1133 - 2013-07-21 21:22:15 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
gardes are better than heavy drones

Only because Ogres have absolute **** for MWD velocity.
All drones need reworked, this is not that.


Come on help me out here you're a fellow droney you tell me if gardes tracking aswell as ogres makes sense?
and that with a domi and 3 omnis you can make them track aswell as autocannons but with 80km optimal range is balanced?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1134 - 2013-07-21 21:32:57 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all i said was gardes are OP combined with domis bonuses.... you kicked up the fuss mate



How many full fleets of done ships have you fought?

As it pertains to this topic, the Ishtar is still going to be far from OP because of fitting. This is a ship that basically can't fit turrets because it is so hosed by its fittings.

For Domis, just get into the drone field with smartboms, or bomb them, NO battleship can carry more than 4 full flights.


you're kind of missing the point here..... gardes are tracking like autocannons but with Artie range on Domis... this is clearly wrong and unbalanced.
stop making this about dronebays and losing drones .. that is a different issue altogether



But that is what its about so no matter how much unicorn riding you do drones have serious disadvantages and DESERVE some unique advantages. Jeez AT comes around, teams use domis so by defacto there OP lol...herd mentality


they have an excellent advantage of being able to assign drones and that jamming the ship doens't stop their dps...
all weapons have disadvantages .. mostly they can have their dps stopped in many different ways..

Also the fact that domis are winning every match tells you they are OP and that gardes are better than heavy drones



Confirmed.

All fights on tranquility happen in a 125km ring.

...and you ever try switching triggers with 250 people in fleet?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1135 - 2013-07-21 21:34:07 UTC
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all i said was gardes are OP combined with domis bonuses.... you kicked up the fuss mate



How many full fleets of done ships have you fought?

As it pertains to this topic, the Ishtar is still going to be far from OP because of fitting. This is a ship that basically can't fit turrets because it is so hosed by its fittings.

For Domis, just get into the drone field with smartboms, or bomb them, NO battleship can carry more than 4 full flights.


you're kind of missing the point here..... gardes are tracking like autocannons but with Artie range on Domis... this is clearly wrong and unbalanced.
stop making this about dronebays and losing drones .. that is a different issue altogether



But that is what its about so no matter how much unicorn riding you do drones have serious disadvantages and DESERVE some unique advantages. Jeez AT comes around, teams use domis so by defacto there OP lol...herd mentality



By people that have never fought a slowcat fleet.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1136 - 2013-07-21 21:34:25 UTC
I love the way people can't answer a straight question.. it tells you a lot about someone

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1137 - 2013-07-21 21:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Harvey James wrote:
I love the way people can't answer a straight question.. it tells you a lot about someone



I told you four times that drones are fine, hull bonuses or not.

I also pointed out that tracking isn't what makes gardes dangerous, its the native SIGNATURE RADIUS that makes them lethal, you skipped over that part too.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1138 - 2013-07-21 21:39:45 UTC
Onictus wrote:
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all i said was gardes are OP combined with domis bonuses.... you kicked up the fuss mate



How many full fleets of done ships have you fought?

As it pertains to this topic, the Ishtar is still going to be far from OP because of fitting. This is a ship that basically can't fit turrets because it is so hosed by its fittings.

For Domis, just get into the drone field with smartboms, or bomb them, NO battleship can carry more than 4 full flights.


you're kind of missing the point here..... gardes are tracking like autocannons but with Artie range on Domis... this is clearly wrong and unbalanced.
stop making this about dronebays and losing drones .. that is a different issue altogether



But that is what its about so no matter how much unicorn riding you do drones have serious disadvantages and DESERVE some unique advantages. Jeez AT comes around, teams use domis so by defacto there OP lol...herd mentality



By people that have never fought a slowcat fleet.



Thats more due to something that costs that little and has that much EHP being able to do that much damage.

Thats more of a carrier problem then a drone one. Sentries are pretty much fine as a powerful but gimpy weapon, they are just really good with a ton of carriers or in a locked up arena.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

raawe
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1139 - 2013-07-21 21:41:53 UTC  |  Edited by: raawe
Major Trant wrote:
I really don't get the Sacrilege changes

I've got one which I've fitted up with a full rack of HAMs, Dual Prop and 1600mm plate. I've got bags of PG to spare without any fitting mods and it is cap stable.

So you are given it 120 more PG - what for? Especially now that you have removed the option of guns. It needs CPU not PG.

As for Cap, that cap bonus is completely useless.

So after acknowledging that it is sub par to the other HACs, all you've really done is give it a fair-average drone bay. Not counting the MWD bonus that they all get.


Indeed. I really like the ship and got some 20fits for it and on each and every one i got PG to spare while cpu is at 100%. It's an unique ship and only thing it needs is 1 more low slot and maybe some cpu and changed cap bonus for either rep bonus or missile damage bonus. But the main thing it needs is one more low.
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#1140 - 2013-07-21 21:49:38 UTC
Who would like to see HACs (High EHP) reduced to one ship for each race and the others relegated to a new class of skirmish cruisers (High speed, lower sig)?