Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I've had a think about what i'd actually expect a HAC to do in order for be to pick it over a T1 cruiser or BC for a close range PVP role and here's a list:

at least as much DPS as a BC.
~60-65k EHP on the HACs without a resist bonus.
fitting room to fit said tank with largest racial close range guns with at most 1 fitting rig.
comparable speed to cruisers. probably slightly slower is fine but probably 90% as fast at least.

as they are now and will be with these changes they do not meet any of those criteria.
they do a lot less DPS than BCs, have crappy EHP, are slower that cruisers by a lot, have terrible fitting room.

as a class, each race also needs a close range and a long range HAC.
the only ones that have this at the moment are amarr and gallente reasonably well.
minmatar and caldari dont have any up close options at all. yes, cerb and munin can fit close range setups but their state are a joke for that role.

eagle should be changed into a blaster boat, munin into a close range AC boat, while tweaking the vaga to make it more long range suitable rather than than just a kiter.

Are heavy assault cruisers supposed to be inferior to navy cruisers at heavily assaulting stuff? Assuming Navy ships are supposed to be improved "generalists" of T1 boats and T2 HACs are meant to be specialized in assaulting (killing stuff?), I would expect HACs to be at least slightly better at it.

they need more ooomph

The third rig slot on Hacs is not only needed but should even be the first thing they get on this balance.

Notice I'm not saying all T2 cruisers and for a reason:

-Logistics are already way too powerful and need a nerf bat

-Reccons can point stuff at stupid ranges with faction modules, yes those are weak tanks but since logistics are totally OP...

-HICs can already fit a huge nasty tank (active with uber ASB) bubble, infinite point and a web

These don't need a 3rd rig slot because logi/Ewar/bble are already far too strong but HACs clearly need it or if they don't then more slots more cpu and pg and better bonus.

Because the Vexor is T1 and the Ishtar is T2. Are you insisting that a higher tech ship should be better than a ship a noob can fly??!?

Right....

It's become clear to me that the great ship rebalancing has very little to do with ship balance or more to do with nerfing SP.

T1 ships got significant buffs. T2's get lip service buffs and some nerfs. T3's, getting nerfed. And BS's & BC's get adjusted to effectively force them into more simplified fits.....utility slots get removed or pg gets removed to make utility usage limited at best.


See the pattern? Every vet with a clue should be raging right now. Thanks CCP for giving me a Rubix cube and telling me to go F*** myself.

They're porting the clone-cost penalty over to ships - now you don't just have to pay more for your clones for being a loyal subscriber, you also get to fly the worse ships whilst paying 15x the price for them. \o/

Seriously - as with the BS rebalance, the changes are underwhelming. The main problem with HACs during the past few years has always been the fact that they're outperformed by BCs, especially since the introduction of Tier 3 BCs or being worse at their specified role than a supposedly 'more generalized' T3.

With these changes, I ca't see that change.

And the MWD bonus - great - the only viable HAC doctrines relied on AB sig tanking - so yeah - an MWD sig size bonus is totally what they needed...

I would not doubt if CCP began including clone costs in km's so the noobs can rejoice when they kill a 5 yr old toon in his highly skilled t2/BS/t3 with their velator.

I have outlined what is wrong with the HACs in my other posts earlier in this discussion.

The thing that CCP / Rise have to realize is that curently there is no overarching quick fix to the HAC problem. Each HAC needs to be looked at from an individual basis and it should be balanced upon its self / other fits competing in the same role.

Speaking about roles, the HAC's currently od not have a role.

So many people in this topic think that HAC's are supposed to be high damage high tank cruises. I feel that this is a horrible position to place them in. BC's play that role. Don't try and stuff HAC's into it.

What HAC's should be is the final word in kiting platorms. A cruiser hull that foces on speed and projection does not exsit in game as a class. A cruiser hull would fit perfectly into this position. Cruisers are fast, and should have no problem outpacing anything other than a frig. This way the HAC can be different from BC's slower / higher EHP / lower projection. Secondly the push to move HAC"s into a purely kiting role also makes sure that they are not being shadowed by ABC's. The HAC will be faster, have better / equal projection- but will be using med guns. This gives the HAC a unique advantage, because unlike the ABC's it can outrun other cruisers, and have an easier time shedding light tackle.

The HAC role bonus should reflect this kiting mindset. There are a few options you should give:

1. MWD Cap bonus
2. MWD / AB Speed bonus
3. MWD Sig bonus (would need to be more than 50% however)
4. Ability for webs / scram to not slow down the HAC as much as other ships
5. Icreased Long point range
6. Flat projection bonuses to optimal / falloff- I cannot stress this enough for blaster / ac / arty boats
7. Flat speed bonus

Lastly- if the HAC's are going to fufill a kiting role, give them more low slots for the addional space to throw in nanos / tracking enhancers / damage mods. 4 lows on a HAC is too little. Given them more low slots to help them really slip into a role as a kiting based cruiser.

Will CCP Frank make his debut?

God, please, change that Muninn completely. It's still a totally crap layout for a ship like this. How does another low slot make it a better sniper? You nerfed Tracking enhancers. Really you want another mid for another Tracking Computer.

I really feel like these changes aren't really addressing an overall issue with the HACs.

Exactly. QFT. :)

I'm actually fine with the Vaga not being able to fit each and everything. I'm more the type who'd want more special modules and traits/roles that would allow us to put different fits than the usual 2xLSE.
Giving it and other HACs way too much leeway in tank would just make the 0.0/pvp part of the game very dull. This "having everything" feature is the main reason why we see T3 fleet doctrines and other common ones be spammed around. Same why Supercarriers/Motherships were once so annoying.

Nonetheless, keeping things interesting should be main focus.