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So why do people hate cloaking?

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Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#161 - 2013-07-19 18:56:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
This in sharp contrast to the supposed poor game design that hasn't been shown or explained at all since you can't articulate it.


I have articulated it. You just read it and decided to pretend I hadn't written anything. I don't know what your problem is to be honest.
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#162 - 2013-07-19 18:57:26 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:

I said in my post that I got hot dropped last night ( and died to it.)


Forgive me if I don't take your advice, then.



Heh - and I said why I died. I was not aligned to my safe. Simple as that. Am I here with you arguing to "fix" cloaking? No I am not. The responsibility is on me. I choose to live in null so it is on me to understand how life and death here goes.


> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#163 - 2013-07-19 18:57:56 UTC
You see what a tight hold these "defense mechanisms" have over people?

They will go to ANY length to not take responsibility for their gameplay choices and actions. It's always "the game is bad" not, "I'm a bad player, I should learn and get better".

It's very annoying.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#164 - 2013-07-19 18:57:57 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
I have articulated it. You just read it and decided to pretend I hadn't written anything.
Perfect! Then you can trivially answer the question with a simple link!

So… what is the problem, specifically? How is it bad game design?
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#165 - 2013-07-19 18:58:02 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/MAUxRy7.jpg

I like showing this pic off, it really shows my pro paint skills. I mean, I put 5 minutes of sweat and tears into this.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#166 - 2013-07-19 19:00:23 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:

*Your* inability to embrace new ways of doing things does not in any way, shape, or form constitute evidence of 'Bad Game Design.' On the other hand, your unwillingness or inability to change what you're doing *does* constitute evidence of 'Bad EVE-Playing.'


You are defending bad game design by pointing out the counters to it, which as we can see from the post above, aren't actually counters, they're just ways of dying slightly less frequently. Fix the poor game design in the way I've suggested and the stupid counters become reasonable counters, even fun-to-play counters for the other side, without gimping the ability to hot-drop in systems at all.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#167 - 2013-07-19 19:02:25 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:

I said in my post that I got hot dropped last night ( and died to it.)


Forgive me if I don't take your advice, then.



Heh - and I said why I died. I was not aligned to my safe. Simple as that. Am I here with you arguing to "fix" cloaking? No I am not. The responsibility is on me. I choose to live in null so it is on me to understand how life and death here goes.




Taking responsibility like you do is THE difference between success and failure. irresponsible people never learn that for some reason (IRL or ingame). They don't understand that making excuses HURTS them more than helps.

Taking responsibility is painful, and we react to pain by trying to prevent it's recurrence.

Making excuses is less painful in the beginning, which doesn't teach us anything and that means we'll be apt to repeat the mistakes we had to make excuses about in the 1st place, repeating the "cycle of stupid".

I just realized that talking to people like the anti-cloak folks is a lot like trying to explain life to my 16 year old. The difference is that there is a chance my 16 year old might listen and thus learn someday LOL.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#168 - 2013-07-19 19:02:44 UTC
Quote:
slightly less frequently


"never" is slightly less frequently.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#169 - 2013-07-19 19:03:26 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/MAUxRy7.jpg

I like showing this pic off, it really shows my pro paint skills. I mean, I put 5 minutes of sweat and tears into this.


You mean you figured out a counter to a threat rather than raging about it on the forums.

GET OUT, you no longer belong in EVE.....
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#170 - 2013-07-19 19:04:17 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Quote:
slightly less frequently


"never" is slightly less frequently.


I've never died to a hot-drop. When a hot dropper or cloaky AFK comes into system. I leave. Simple as that. The other guy said in his post he got hot dropped last night and died, right after giving me advice on how to counter hot-droppers. You couldn't make it up.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#171 - 2013-07-19 19:04:26 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/MAUxRy7.jpg

I like showing this pic off, it really shows my pro paint skills. I mean, I put 5 minutes of sweat and tears into this.


You mean you figured out a counter to a threat rather than raging about it on the forums.

GET OUT, you no longer belong in EVE.....


ok, I'll go play the secret world or something. Cry

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#172 - 2013-07-19 19:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Victoria Sin wrote:
You are defending bad game design by pointing out the counters to it, which as we can see from the post above, aren't actually counters, they're just ways of dying slightly less frequently.
Counters don't stop being counters just because they fail occasionally.

He's showing that the game has nice counters designed into it, which is still a sharp contrast to your inability to link, describe, explain, or in any other way show that this supposed bad game design you keep talking about exists.

Quote:
Fix the poor game design
Fix what? What is the problem you're trying to solve? You've suggested fuel to cloaks, which implies that cloaks are somehow a problem. In what way are they a problem? How does adding fuel to them fix it?

Quote:
I've never died to a hot-drop.
So what's the problem? It's obviously not hot drops, if they're that trivial to survive or avoid, and it certainly isn't cloakers since they can't do anything to you. AFK cloaker's are even less of a problem since they can't do anything twice over (once because they're AFK, a second time because they're cloaked).
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#173 - 2013-07-19 19:07:43 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Quote:
slightly less frequently


"never" is slightly less frequently.


I've never died to a hot-drop. When a hot dropper or cloaky AFK comes into system. I leave. Simple as that. The other guy said in his post he got hot dropped last night and died, right after giving me advice on how to counter hot-droppers. You couldn't make it up.


And he pointed out he wasnt aligned, which is one of those points of advice we've been trying to hand to you.

It's also worth pointing out that you leave system when any afk cloaker comes in, not just hot dropping ones. Unless you know the history of the person in question, which is like a big gee eye go moment, knowing is half the battle. Maybe stay in system and pretend to be a dumb ratter or miner and bait the dude? Have some fun and some balls.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#174 - 2013-07-19 19:08:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
You are defending bad game design by pointing out the counters to it, which as we can see from the post above, aren't actually counters, they're just ways of dying slightly less frequently.
Counters don't stop being counters just because they fail occasionally.

He's showing that the game has nice counters designed into it, which is still a sharp contrast to your inability to link, describe, explain, or in any other way show that this supposed bad game design you keep talking about exists.


This counter wasn't "designed into it". Players develop counters (like just going somewhere else) themselves. CCP didn't put much thought into it at all. I've been in game since Beta. I know how it works around here. Things are found to suck or not and then they're either nerfed or changed or left as they are. That is all you need to know.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#175 - 2013-07-19 19:10:04 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:


This counter wasn't "designed into it". Players develop counters (like just going somewhere else) themselves. CCP didn't put much thought into it at all. I've been in game since Beta. I know how it works around here. Things are found to suck or not and then they're either nerfed or changed or left as they are. That is all you need to know.


And what was afk cloaking a player developed counter to?

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#176 - 2013-07-19 19:13:51 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:

*Your* inability to embrace new ways of doing things does not in any way, shape, or form constitute evidence of 'Bad Game Design.' On the other hand, your unwillingness or inability to change what you're doing *does* constitute evidence of 'Bad EVE-Playing.'


You are defending bad game design by pointing out the counters to it, which as we can see from the post above, aren't actually counters, they're just ways of dying slightly less frequently. Fix the poor game design in the way I've suggested and the stupid counters become reasonable counters, even fun-to-play counters for the other side, without gimping the ability to hot-drop in systems at all.

Once again, you misinterpret. You do so with such consistency that it must be deliberate - you're too articulate to be as dim as you would need to be to do so inadvertently.

It seems clear that you think the game owes you safety and comfort of mind. It does not, in fact, owe you any such thing. Your desire for protection does not a bad game make - It means that you simply want something you're not going to get. Calling such 'bad design' is not a truth. It is a falsehood based on your own self-centered desires and wishful thinking.

EVE is not 'fair.' It's not meant to be 'fair.' If you want something that resembles 'fair,' you need to take responsiblity for creating that condition for yourself.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#177 - 2013-07-19 19:13:58 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:

And he pointed out he wasnt aligned, which is one of those points of advice we've been trying to hand to you.


You say you mine with reds in local and that's OK because you're aligned? Absurd. I don't know anyone who does that. When a red comes into local, they GTFO if they're mining or running an anom. How can you come out with the above and keep a straight face?

Now I know you're just trolling me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#178 - 2013-07-19 19:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Victoria Sin wrote:
This counter wasn't "designed into it".
Being aligned so you can warp out is very much designed into the game.

Quote:
I've been in game since Beta.
…and yet you're so unfamiliar with basic mechanics and apparently have problems that newer players have long since solved. Fancy that.

You're also being less and less clear about what this supposed problem and bad game design actually entails. You can't answer a straight question even though you say that the answer is readily available. You can't even give a simple yes or no when one is suggested to you.

So… what is the problem, specifically? How is it bad game design? We've established that it's not hot-dropping, it's not cloaking, it's not being AFK… what's left? And how does adding fuel to cloaks — the “solution” you're suggesting — address this undefined problem?

Quote:
You say you mine with reds in local and that's OK because you're aligned? Absurd. I don't know anyone who does that.
Maybe that explains why you misidentify it as a problem, whereas he doesn't since he has already solved it?
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#179 - 2013-07-19 19:18:00 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/MAUxRy7.jpg

I like showing this pic off, it really shows my pro paint skills. I mean, I put 5 minutes of sweat and tears into this.
There it is again!
The simple illustration of how to mine safely and at GTFO velocities.
Lol
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#180 - 2013-07-19 19:18:24 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:


This counter wasn't "designed into it". Players develop counters (like just going somewhere else) themselves. CCP didn't put much thought into it at all. I've been in game since Beta. I know how it works around here. Things are found to suck or not and then they're either nerfed or changed or left as they are. That is all you need to know.


And what was afk cloaking a player developed counter to?


Nullbears acting under a false sense of security.







☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.