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Let's Play, l4, Vengeance, Angel Cartel

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Author
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-07-19 17:31:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Craig Bennett2th wrote:
I've basically explain in text and a video on why I was Using t1 drones. Anyways, I wouldn't say it is harassment when someone is only helping. I will say it's harassment when someone refuses to watch and listen to the parts that they are crying about. Then Picks parts out of a post to cry. Even more so when they have to attached lies to their parts (which is stupid since everyone can read or watch what I said) .

As far as my ship and fit. My ship can withstand several (9) bs hitting it at the same time. It's also omi tanked. So I can jump in almost any mission (giving there is no EM). Anyways, anyone that used a domi can tell you it's a very slow ship.


Well you clearly haven't explained it very well as I still don't understand why you would use T1 hobs over berserker IIs (or Is if you havent had them trained).

Also what lies? Everything I've been talking about appears in your video.

Your ship can withstand 9 battleships hitting it, great! Many competent PVEers will tell you this: your tank is your gank. This means the faster you can kill things on field the less tank you need because once you kill those threats your tank isn't as pressured. This is beneficial two-fold:

1. You complete missions faster
2. Your tank will hold

Omni tanking your ship is only really useful when you're chain running missions without returning to a station and the missions you've got are against different rats.

People commenting on your overview are probably talking about the fact you are using a default EVE profile and have LCS, wrecks and god knows what else on it.

It may be more efficient to have a missioning profile with only rats and then a separate loot profile for wrecks and containers.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#22 - 2013-07-19 23:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Donbe Scurred wrote:

Harassment? She is trying to help you but you take offence to everything she says. She is one of the most helpful around if you are not so thin skinned anyway.

One thing I think everyone agrees on is you should learn to fit your ships better before you give advice.


I still think that can be done in a fairly polite way, instead of bashing people to for no particular reason.

As a matter of fact I consider most of the stuff Tsukino posted about some hulls highly subjective and mostly as a opinion of somebody that just looked stuff up in eft. It is less practical ingame(you want a mwd on the Vargur, you don't want a cap booster on a amarr hull, since it is quite limiting at longer missions or chained missions).

Also nobody can hit stuff at 2km with garde II drones(I stack tipple 90% webs to get the job done reasonable good as sentry drone bunny in Incs, since damage application really matter once you are in control of 24 sentry drones...). Angel BS orbit at 5-7km and you need multiple webs or a 90% web to archive reasonable damage against them with sentry's(I did run angel missions for years in a Kronos).

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#23 - 2013-07-20 02:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Craig Bennett2th wrote:


A BS isn't a smaller ship. Also, I never seen a BS orbit 2k away.

Sentries have a hard time hitting anything like a frigate that is in a pretty close range. I've notice the sentries have to turn to hit their target. Like it takes 3 rounds before they hit something sometimes.
So I think it has to deal with the speed of the smaller ships orbiting me or the drones.

The problem with t2 drones, is cruisers tend to target t2 scouts and combat drones. But, the other problem is the sentry drones tend to take them out faster. So all I need is T1 drones to take out frigates. But, I will use it to keep up the damage while I move a short distance.



Next time you do an angel mission with a dominix, the drone load out is.

Bouncers
Berserkers
Warriors.

T2s if you can use them.

If in the future you find yourself surrounded by angel battleships and can't hit them because even if you have no idea what omni directional tracking links are for, then at least -have- the berserkers in your drone bay. A dominix with 3 faction omnis can currently bouncer II angel battleships orbiting (the domi is *that* good when used properly), but you'll have to stop double repping for that.

The side benefit of the berserkers, particularly for the 5 gate angel extravaganza mission is that once the last spawn is up, and the remnants have got close to your bouncers, you can deploy berserkers and move to the gate at the same time (ie run and gun). Angels are actually pretty good for letting you avoid downtime in the mission because of how close they come, and berserkers are actually pretty damn fast, so if you have battleships surrounding you, they'll go from target to target without much travel loss.

In practice you do everything wrong in your videos and it makes them very tiresome, long and lacking insight that would actually be helpful compared to just reading eve-survival.
Craig Bennett2th
Bennett Corp
#24 - 2013-07-20 05:59:45 UTC
Tauranon wrote:


In practice you do everything wrong in your videos and it makes them very tiresome, long and lacking insight that would actually be helpful compared to just reading eve-survival.


So my ship blow up or I quit in the middle of the mission?

BTW, you have no idea what you are talking about what T2 drones will do to my fit. There is 2 problems with t2 drones.

1. t2 drones takes more space. So I can fit way less of them on my ship.

2. t2 drones cost more.


Something that isn't obvious but wasn't explain before, and I didn't think it needed to be pointed out. I didn't point it out because I didn't use my t1 drones in many ways I can.

1. bait. If at any reason I feel my ship has a risk of getting blown up, I can release my t1 drones and use a MJD or warp. (or MJD then warp since there is no turning in a MJD)
Also, I can use them as bait in missions like the blockade. I can use some t1 drones to bring everyone where I want them, then I can pull out my sentry. It makes most missions stupid easy.

2. T1 drones cost less. T1 hob cost about 5k, so really 1 bad guy gives me that back many times over. This is to include small ships.

3. I can fit more t1 drones in my ship than t2. This means I can use more as bait, or as a throw away drones. Basically drones that are going to die, but doing what I need them to do.

4. To hold some damage on something. Kinda like what I was doing with the BS when I was moving to the gate. Like I had 2 things I could've done there. Sit there and take them out with my sentry drones. Or get closer to the gate then use my sentry drones.

Something that is obvious. T1 drones are great for taking down small ships. That's the biggest reason why I have them, so why should I fix that if it's not broke.


As far as the BS and angel extravaganza. My sentries are great in that missions. In fact, I use to do exactly what you said a year back. And it takes a lot longer.

_______________________________________________________________

I am only saying this so people start thinking about what they are going to say. People have seen my ship, and cry about the 2 guns I have. Saying I shouldn't mix guns, I don't know what I am doing with them, and so on. I don't know why people don't look at the obvious and say that may not be for killing. Anyone who thinks I was using T1 hobs to take out the BS are complete morons. T1 hobs will never take out a BS. In fact, it's questionable at times if it's going to take out a cruisers on L4.
Seriously, where is the common sense.

Hell is around every turn. It's your choice to go in it or not. Please check out the Rookies in EVE video playlist. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLioOFeHwQV5yNk2vpz8wX9hihLVQEIKLt

Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-07-20 10:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme more Cynos
Craig Bennett2th wrote:
Tauranon wrote:


In practice you do everything wrong in your videos and it makes them very tiresome, long and lacking insight that would actually be helpful compared to just reading eve-survival.


So my ship blow up or I quit in the middle of the mission?

BTW, you have no idea what you are talking about what T2 drones will do to my fit. There is 2 problems with t2 drones.

1. t2 drones takes more space. So I can fit way less of them on my ship.

2. t2 drones cost more.


Something that isn't obvious but wasn't explain before, and I didn't think it needed to be pointed out. I didn't point it out because I didn't use my t1 drones in many ways I can.

1. bait. If at any reason I feel my ship has a risk of getting blown up, I can release my t1 drones and use a MJD or warp. (or MJD then warp since there is no turning in a MJD)
Also, I can use them as bait in missions like the blockade. I can use some t1 drones to bring everyone where I want them, then I can pull out my sentry. It makes most missions stupid easy.

2. T1 drones cost less. T1 hob cost about 5k, so really 1 bad guy gives me that back many times over. This is to include small ships.

3. I can fit more t1 drones in my ship than t2. This means I can use more as bait, or as a throw away drones. Basically drones that are going to die, but doing what I need them to do.

4. To hold some damage on something. Kinda like what I was doing with the BS when I was moving to the gate. Like I had 2 things I could've done there. Sit there and take them out with my sentry drones. Or get closer to the gate then use my sentry drones.

Something that is obvious. T1 drones are great for taking down small ships. That's the biggest reason why I have them, so why should I fix that if it's not broke.


As far as the BS and angel extravaganza. My sentries are great in that missions. In fact, I use to do exactly what you said a year back. And it takes a lot longer.

_______________________________________________________________

I am only saying this so people start thinking about what they are going to say. People have seen my ship, and cry about the 2 guns I have. Saying I shouldn't mix guns, I don't know what I am doing with them, and so on. I don't know why people don't look at the obvious and say that may not be for killing. Anyone who thinks I was using T1 hobs to take out the BS are complete morons. T1 hobs will never take out a BS. In fact, it's questionable at times if it's going to take out a cruisers on L4.
Seriously, where is the common sense.


The thing is, common sense says "Gank over Tank". Not only because it works pretty damn well, it also increases your isk per hour.

Noone cares about the fact that you can tank 9 BS's for hours, because most people will kill those 9 BS's in less than 5 minutes.

Take my CNR as an example = it tanks 380 dps sustained, which is barely enough for 3 BS and some cruisers - I can't tank them for hours, but there's no need for it anyway. They are all dead in less than 2 minutes. Simply because I shoot them fast :)

The thing is, you are a special snowflake as a mission runner. You want to have it as save as possible - while most other peeps want to kill them fast. This creates the conflict :)

Not saying it's a bad thing, but.. not much players will agree with you.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-07-20 10:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
Craig Bennett2th wrote:
BTW, you have no idea what you are talking about what T2 drones will do to my fit. There is 2 problems with t2 drones.

1. t2 drones takes more space. So I can fit way less of them on my ship.


No they don't.

T2 drones are exactly the same size as their T1 counterparts. 5m3 for lights, 10m3 for mediums, 25m3 for heavies and sentries. You can fit exactly the same number of T2 drones into your drone bay as T1s, you can launch exactly the same number of T2 drones as T1s.

Yes, they're more expensive. T2 light drones are around 400k each, hardly bank-breaking for someone doing L4 missions.

Are you thinking of T2 mining crystals which are indeed larger than the T1 variants?
Craig Bennett2th
Bennett Corp
#27 - 2013-07-20 10:12:44 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Craig Bennett2th wrote:
BTW, you have no idea what you are talking about what T2 drones will do to my fit. There is 2 problems with t2 drones.

1. t2 drones takes more space. So I can fit way less of them on my ship.


No they don't.

T2 drones are exactly the same size as their T1 counterparts. 5m3 for lights, 10m3 for mediums, 25m3 for heavies and sentries. You can fit exactly the same T2 drones into your drone bay as T1s, you can launch exactly the same T2 drones as T1s.

Yes, they're more expensive. T2 light drones are around 400k each, hardly bank-breaking for someone doing L4 missions.

Are you thinking of T2 mining crystals which are indeed larger than the T1 variants?


Yes. Sorry about that.

Hell is around every turn. It's your choice to go in it or not. Please check out the Rookies in EVE video playlist. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLioOFeHwQV5yNk2vpz8wX9hihLVQEIKLt

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-07-20 11:20:18 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Donbe Scurred wrote:

Harassment? She is trying to help you but you take offence to everything she says. She is one of the most helpful around if you are not so thin skinned anyway.

One thing I think everyone agrees on is you should learn to fit your ships better before you give advice.


I still think that can be done in a fairly polite way, instead of bashing people to for no particular reason.

As a matter of fact I consider most of the stuff Tsukino posted about some hulls highly subjective and mostly as a opinion of somebody that just looked stuff up in eft. It is less practical ingame(you want a mwd on the Vargur, you don't want a cap booster on a amarr hull, since it is quite limiting at longer missions or chained missions).

Also nobody can hit stuff at 2km with garde II drones(I stack tipple 90% webs to get the job done reasonable good as sentry drone bunny in Incs, since damage application really matter once you are in control of 24 sentry drones...). Angel BS orbit at 5-7km and you need multiple webs or a 90% web to archive reasonable damage against them with sentry's(I did run angel missions for years in a Kronos).


So what i post is subjective and opinions based off EFT, so when you comment about sentrys' ability to hit things at close range you're speaking from experience then? I would like to see how you fit your domi because mine has ABSOLUTELY no trouble hitting a battleship orbiting at 5-7k with no webs, painter, nothing.

pot calling kettle black. good job.

Craig once again proving his flawed knowledge (do you ever even check things before you talk about them?)

Aside from that: yes t2 drones are more expensive but they are MUCH more durable than t1. Following the gank=tank line of thought since they do more damage as well they take less damage because they clean things up faster, that combined with the fact that they are faster and more sturdy means that you will rarely lose a tech 2 light scout unless you aren't paying attention.

Furthermore your point 4:

"To hold some damage on something. Kinda like what I was doing with the BS when I was moving to the gate. Like I had 2 things I could've done there. Sit there and take them out with my sentry drones. Or get closer to the gate then use my sentry drones."

What's stopping you from using heavy drones?

"T1 drones are great for taking down small ships"

Yes they're great, guess what t2 drones are even better!

"Anyone who thinks I was using T1 hobs to take out the BS are complete morons."

Go to 7:40 on your own video. Are you, or are you not, using T1 hobs to "holding off the battleship from losing whatever damage as best as I could" (doesn't even make grammatical sense but whatever)?

Why not use heavy drones? Also T2 warriors are quite capable of eventually killing a battleship if you have the proper drone skills and a decent fitting (1 DDA on a domi, really?)

And I still don't understand your choice of guns, you never use them in any video you make with your domi.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-07-20 19:22:20 UTC


One reason it takes him so long is low DPS.

No guns I can understand due to skills but that poor Domi needs more than one DDA. It has two LAR's and a MJD?? From my understanding a MJD is to get range to reduce DPS so why the two LAR's? It needs at least two and preferably three DDA's and two tracking links.
Jaycobben delgato
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-07-20 19:53:40 UTC
here i thought he was going to be doing the mission IN a vengeance, which would've been much more of an interesting topic.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#31 - 2013-07-20 21:50:39 UTC
I have removed a personal attack. Please people, keep the discussion civil! That goes both ways btw.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#32 - 2013-07-21 03:17:34 UTC
IIshira wrote:


One reason it takes him so long is low DPS.

No guns I can understand due to skills but that poor Domi needs more than one DDA. It has two LAR's and a MJD?? From my understanding a MJD is to get range to reduce DPS so why the two LAR's? It needs at least two and preferably three DDA's and two tracking links.


That is largely the point yes. If he was missioning in a ship with less tank, he'd understand and point out the important parts of the missions when he got around to doing a vid, and the only important thing is how to manage the aggro and tracking to npc's in that particular mission so as to allow yourself to use a single rep, high damage fit.

One of the great things about the dominix is how well it performs now with all level "4" skills. You can run 3 DDAs, you can avoid a T2 tank with faction resists and a faction rep, and the worst of the problems with navy gardes vs garde Iis is now wallpapered over by the tremendous hull bonus.

Its particularly irritating to watch a dominix do less dps than a single rep myrmidon that could in fact just stand at the beacon and orbit a drone and sig/orbit tank enough fire to not actually die anyway...
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-07-21 08:40:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
It takes a long time if you do what you're doing yes....for anyone else who's competent it's doable in a bounty tick.

I skipped to the end and it almost took you TWO HOURS to do this mission.

That's......... I don't even.

Just to clarify on what I said: you can clear the mission in one bounty tick and come back in a noctis and loot/salvage in 15 minutes


Your Domi isn't much faster either.

If you want to blitz properly use Tengu.

These videos aren't meant for people who know every mission forward and backward and can do them blindfolded.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-07-21 10:04:50 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
It takes a long time if you do what you're doing yes....for anyone else who's competent it's doable in a bounty tick.

I skipped to the end and it almost took you TWO HOURS to do this mission.

That's......... I don't even.

Just to clarify on what I said: you can clear the mission in one bounty tick and come back in a noctis and loot/salvage in 15 minutes


Your Domi isn't much faster either.

If you want to blitz properly use Tengu.

These videos aren't meant for people who know every mission forward and backward and can do them blindfolded.


can you stop following everything I post attempting to make a counter to it?

Of course my domi is much faster, I have 4 DDAs on it, use my guns and don't use T1 hobs to "keep up damage" while I move.

Also you just discredited anything you say about missions with that comment, blitz with a tengu, honestly.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-07-21 10:25:40 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Of course my domi is much faster, I have 4 DDAs on it, use my guns and don't use T1 hobs to "keep up damage" while I move.


Maybe isk/h isn't important for some players?

If you think his isk/h is bad then you don't want to search videos of AF or Dramiel doing level 4s.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-07-21 10:38:25 UTC
Those videos are because it's a challenge, his videos are using a domi (generally accepted level 4 hull) and he's salvaging and looting which means hes clearly doing them for profit.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-07-21 10:58:02 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Those videos are because it's a challenge, his videos are using a domi (generally accepted level 4 hull) and he's salvaging and looting which means hes clearly doing them for profit.


When you're salvaging and looting with your mission ship you're not doing it for max isk/h.

Why would I ever bother salvaging level 2s and 3s with drones(!) when I have max skilled Noctis pilot, who also has maxed leadership skills, in same fleet?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-07-21 10:59:22 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Those videos are because it's a challenge, his videos are using a domi (generally accepted level 4 hull) and he's salvaging and looting which means hes clearly doing them for profit.


When you're salvaging and looting with your mission ship you're not doing it for max isk/h.

Why would I ever bother salvaging level 2s and 3s with drones(!) when I have max skilled Noctis pilot, who also has maxed leadership skills, in same fleet?


I'm not going to comment on isk/hour because I never said that was the purpose of the video, you're the one who brought it up. However as a video "guide" it's not telling someone how to run this efficiently.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-07-21 11:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I'm not going to comment on isk/hour because I never said that was the purpose of the video, you're the one who brought it up. However as a video "guide" it's not telling someone how to run this efficiently.


If there's demand for guides for how to be efficient in level 4s then you or someone else should do those.

It could be just video guides or in-game training by showing them how it's supposed to be done, watch them doing it and tell them what they did right and what they should do better.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-07-21 11:06:41 UTC
The purpose of the video was to show someone how to run this mission, however because it's done in such a terrible way I cannot categorise this as a "guide" since it's doing so many things wrong. I don't think there's demand for this kind of content anyway since even if these guides are horrible they should have more views than they currently do just from people searching and clicking on it out of curiosity.
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