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Why nerf high sec?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#161 - 2013-07-19 10:21:04 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Unlike London, EvE doesn't have courts to properly prosecute (and execute) felons.
Actually, it does. Highly automated ones, even.

Quote:
And people don't hire mercs to "get even" in a lawful society (as that is P2W).
Sure they do. Depending on the merc's methods, it might not be entirely legal, though. Also, unlike in EVE, P2W actually exists in lawful societies.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#162 - 2013-07-19 11:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Didn't read thread, gunna assume.

"High Security" does not mean "You are Invincible", it means the Police are everywhere, and will assist you against hostiles. However if they kill you first, that's just how it is.

If someone gets shot in London, they still get shot, I'd say that's high security, yet doesn't make you invincible.


Unlike London, EvE doesn't have courts to properly prosecute (and execute) felons. And people don't hire mercs to "get even" in a lawful society (as that is P2W).


In lawful society mercs are called lawyers, and given the material losses they can inflict I think most people would prefer mercs.
Alicia Aishai
Perkone
Caldari State
#163 - 2013-07-19 11:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Alicia Aishai
deleted - wrong thread
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2013-07-19 12:02:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
My final comment on this topic is PvE null seccers who call for nerfing of high sec are biased and misguided. In calling for a nerf of high sec PvE they ignore their own easy mode style of play which provides more profit for much less risk.

They belittle high sec mission runners for easy mode profits in safe space while ignoring the fact that in high nowhere is safe, while refusing to undock unless their own space is completely clear of anyone capable of engaging them. All the while expecting or more accurately demanding, higher profits. Null PvE needs a serious nerf to bring it closer in line with high sec.

There should always be some chance of non consensual PvE (and nope,, getting scrammed by an npc and ganked before you can kill it so as to warp to safety doesn't count as risk)

Thank you for reading.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#165 - 2013-07-19 12:36:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Infinity Ziona wrote:
My final comment on this topic is PvE null seccers who call for nerfing of high sec are biased and misguided. In calling for a nerf of high sec PvE they ignore their own easy mode style of play which provides more profit for much less risk.

They belittle high sec mission runners for easy mode profits in safe space while ignoring the fact that in high nowhere is safe, while refusing to undock unless their own space is completely clear of anyone capable of engaging them. All the while expecting or more accurately demanding, higher profits. Null PvE needs a serious nerf to bring it closer in line with high sec.

There should always be some chance of non consensual PvE (and nope,, getting scrammed by an npc and ganked before you can kill it so as to warp to safety doesn't count as risk)

Thank you for reading.


The above is some of the most warped logic I've seen online or off.

I don't know who came up with the whole "high sec is more dangerous than null" BS as I have yet to see an entire high sec solar system dock up when one guy comes into local lol. I also have yet to see a ratting carrier killmail from high sec. The ONLY ways to kill someone in high sec are suicide, war or trickery. The way to kill in null (and the rest of the game outside high sec)? Find someone you don't like and shoot him

I mean it's just a stupid way to think. It's like people in Malibu, California believing with all their heart that their city is "more dangerous" than Compton, California because at least in Compton you can clearly see the gang members.

Lets not let anything like actual freaking evidence
 get in the way of a full blown psychotic break now.

Any safety that comes in null sec comes only from human effort, and even that effort fails sometimes.

I mean really, if null is so safe, where are the Null Incursion Communities at where you can X up in a random channel and get invited to a fleet of 5 bil isk machariels and vindicators? The mere existence of the incursion communities demonstrate the extreme safety of high sec

I know people troll and /or post with specific agendas and i'm fine with that. What I find disgusting is that these cracked people sometimes actually believe the BS they are spouting. High sec people actually believe that null is "safe" and everyone who PVE's there is rolling in the isk while they toil in the fields for pennies. It's like some kind of -High Sec Psychosis- that comes from being TOO safe in a spaceship game or something.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#166 - 2013-07-19 12:50:11 UTC
Bill Overbeck wrote:
I don't understand all this hate. Especially when it seems most of sov null sec seems to be high sec but with players as Concord. And it changes hands every once in a while.

the thing is that the main moto in eve, according to CCP, is more risk == better reward


in high sec, the risks are very low (wich is fine btw, this is highsec after all).

but the rewards are AT WORSE equals to low and null, and most of the time, BETTER than the other 2 sec areas.

the low and null however, put way more risk on the players, so according to CCP, bigger risk shall grant bigger rewards, and as of today's situation this is just not true.

hence why ppl ask for a rebalance of earnings between null / low and high (and not especially a highsec nerf)
SmokinDank
Horizon Research Group
#167 - 2013-07-19 12:53:19 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
My final comment on this topic is PvE null seccers who call for nerfing of high sec are biased and misguided. In calling for a nerf of high sec PvE they ignore their own easy mode style of play which provides more profit for much less risk.

They belittle high sec mission runners for easy mode profits in safe space while ignoring the fact that in high nowhere is safe, while refusing to undock unless their own space is completely clear of anyone capable of engaging them. All the while expecting or more accurately demanding, higher profits. Null PvE needs a serious nerf to bring it closer in line with high sec.

There should always be some chance of non consensual PvE (and nope,, getting scrammed by an npc and ganked before you can kill it so as to warp to safety doesn't count as risk)

Thank you for reading.


The original owner of this character was a lot cooler What?

...
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2013-07-19 12:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
SmokinDank wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
My final comment on this topic is PvE null seccers who call for nerfing of high sec are biased and misguided. In calling for a nerf of high sec PvE they ignore their own easy mode style of play which provides more profit for much less risk.

They belittle high sec mission runners for easy mode profits in safe space while ignoring the fact that in high nowhere is safe, while refusing to undock unless their own space is completely clear of anyone capable of engaging them. All the while expecting or more accurately demanding, higher profits. Null PvE needs a serious nerf to bring it closer in line with high sec.

There should always be some chance of non consensual PvE (and nope,, getting scrammed by an npc and ganked before you can kill it so as to warp to safety doesn't count as risk)

Thank you for reading.


The original owner of this character was a lot cooler What?

Lol. I don't buy or sell my characters in any game. If I ever decide to dispose of Infinity or any of my other characters they will be biomassed.

P.S I have never been cool :)

Edit: Also it may seem I'm advocating for high sec carebearism but I'm not. I have had to grind L4s for what seems like an eternity to get all my locator agents and doing them is pretty aweful,, crap isk and loot. I'm just more against the ridiculous loot piñatas doing the same crap in null in complete safety and getting paid in loot and isk on the scale they do. You can't kill them because they're impossible to catch with their instant local intel and that annoys me.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#169 - 2013-07-19 13:15:34 UTC
Someone mentioned that the players who are skewed too far toward being risk averse, will always stay in highsec, even if you offered them triple the reward at only double the risk, etc.

That's why you FORCE them to accept it. They truly do not know what is in their own best interest. If they don't want to accept risk, there are plenty of people who will happily bring the risk to them (and people like me, who will pay to make sure it happens), which is why highsec ganking is a thing.

Being so absurdly risk averse like a lot of the highsec crowd are is playing the game wrong. That's it. There will be no Felucca and Trammel in New Eden, whether they like it or not. This isn't a single player game, and you'll never be immune to other people. If they don't like it, then they can go fit some guns and come kill me for it.

Either way, we win.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#170 - 2013-07-19 14:11:01 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
SmokinDank wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
My final comment on this topic is PvE null seccers who call for nerfing of high sec are biased and misguided. In calling for a nerf of high sec PvE they ignore their own easy mode style of play which provides more profit for much less risk.

They belittle high sec mission runners for easy mode profits in safe space while ignoring the fact that in high nowhere is safe, while refusing to undock unless their own space is completely clear of anyone capable of engaging them. All the while expecting or more accurately demanding, higher profits. Null PvE needs a serious nerf to bring it closer in line with high sec.

There should always be some chance of non consensual PvE (and nope,, getting scrammed by an npc and ganked before you can kill it so as to warp to safety doesn't count as risk)

Thank you for reading.


The original owner of this character was a lot cooler What?

Lol. I don't buy or sell my characters in any game. If I ever decide to dispose of Infinity or any of my other characters they will be biomassed.

P.S I have never been cool :)

Edit: Also it may seem I'm advocating for high sec carebearism but I'm not. I have had to grind L4s for what seems like an eternity to get all my locator agents and doing them is pretty aweful,, crap isk and loot. I'm just more against the ridiculous loot piñatas doing the same crap in null in complete safety and getting paid in loot and isk on the scale they do. You can't kill them because they're impossible to catch with their instant local intel and that annoys me.


I highlighted what I see as you problem (or a major part of it). You're thinking emotinally rather than rationally. If you were thinking rationally the actual evidence (the is readily available and just a google search away) would have swayed you long before you posted any of the crazy stuff you posted.

That's why many thought you were trolling or lying, because no rational person could belive what you typed in this thread.

Like in other threads you display this HUGE biased dislike of local, it's like local touched you in a bad place as a child or something, and EVERYTHING that has any connection with local gets the same hate.

Couple that with your poor PVE ability (you could have gotten access to locator agents much more easily lol) AND your false belief in the idea that null PVe players are somehow flying pimpmobiles that never get caught (which I know is a lie and I have the Machariel lossmail to prove it) and you end up with your outlandish "500 mil in null sec" belief.

In short, your thought process is really really messed up Infinity. I honestly advise you to take a look at that, you might learn soemthing if you do.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#171 - 2013-07-19 14:17:28 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Didn't read thread, gunna assume.

"High Security" does not mean "You are Invincible", it means the Police are everywhere, and will assist you against hostiles. However if they kill you first, that's just how it is.

If someone gets shot in London, they still get shot, I'd say that's high security, yet doesn't make you invincible.


Unlike London, EvE doesn't have courts to properly prosecute (and execute) felons. And people don't hire mercs to "get even" in a lawful society (as that is P2W).


This absolutely does happen, even in London.

Still, have some light reading:

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#172 - 2013-07-19 19:28:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Being so absurdly risk averse like a lot of the highsec crowd are is playing the game wrong. That's it.


Welcome to the sandbox where there is a good and a wrong way to play.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#173 - 2013-07-19 19:32:15 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:

in high sec, the risks are very low (wich is fine btw, this is highsec after all).

but the rewards are AT WORSE equals to low and null, and most of the time, BETTER than the other 2 sec areas.

the low and null however, put way more risk on the players, so according to CCP, bigger risk shall grant bigger rewards, and as of today's situation this is just not true.



The potential for better reward is there but was NEVER garanteed by CCP. Maybe it's too hard to achive but saying it is impossible is stupid. Yes everything is at a much higher risk in low/null but the potential is still there to earn more than in High. It require more effort on top of the bigger risk but CCP enver said higher risk would not give higher reward directly. Unless you can find quotes from CCP saying there should not be additionnal work over the high risk, then it's still working as intended.

The risk is higher and the potential for higher reward is there.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#174 - 2013-07-20 05:46:18 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:

in high sec, the risks are very low (wich is fine btw, this is highsec after all).

but the rewards are AT WORSE equals to low and null, and most of the time, BETTER than the other 2 sec areas.

the low and null however, put way more risk on the players, so according to CCP, bigger risk shall grant bigger rewards, and as of today's situation this is just not true.



The potential for better reward is there but was NEVER garanteed by CCP. Maybe it's too hard to achive but saying it is impossible is stupid. Yes everything is at a much higher risk in low/null but the potential is still there to earn more than in High. It require more effort on top of the bigger risk but CCP enver said higher risk would not give higher reward directly. Unless you can find quotes from CCP saying there should not be additionnal work over the high risk, then it's still working as intended.

The risk is higher and the potential for higher reward is there.


The reality is that most people will earn around the same in high sec as in null/lowsec. Everyone has known that levels 4 missions give too much reward and high sec incursions even more so dispite the heavy nerf it got. CCP have started to correct this imbalance over the last year but there is still much to be done.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#175 - 2013-07-20 06:12:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:

in high sec, the risks are very low (wich is fine btw, this is highsec after all).

but the rewards are AT WORSE equals to low and null, and most of the time, BETTER than the other 2 sec areas.

the low and null however, put way more risk on the players, so according to CCP, bigger risk shall grant bigger rewards, and as of today's situation this is just not true.



The potential for better reward is there but was NEVER garanteed by CCP. Maybe it's too hard to achive but saying it is impossible is stupid. Yes everything is at a much higher risk in low/null but the potential is still there to earn more than in High. It require more effort on top of the bigger risk but CCP enver said higher risk would not give higher reward directly. Unless you can find quotes from CCP saying there should not be additionnal work over the high risk, then it's still working as intended.

The risk is higher and the potential for higher reward is there.


The reality is that most people will earn around the same in high sec as in null/lowsec. Everyone has known that levels 4 missions give too much reward and high sec incursions even more so dispite the heavy nerf it got. CCP have started to correct this imbalance over the last year but there is still much to be done.

lol so much wrong with this. null has far greater reward for PvE, WH greater than null discounting moons. the average bear in null does no pvp. i know since this is where a couple of my carebear spies / isk generators reside. with pi alts and anoms and almost never seeing a nuetral its vastly superior to highsec where Infinity now resides.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#176 - 2013-07-20 06:12:46 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The potential for better reward is there but was NEVER garanteed by CCP. Maybe it's too hard to achive but saying it is impossible is stupid. Yes everything is at a much higher risk in low/null but the potential is still there to earn more than in High. It require more effort on top of the bigger risk but CCP enver said higher risk would not give higher reward directly. Unless you can find quotes from CCP saying there should not be additionnal work over the high risk, then it's still working as intended.

The risk is higher and the potential for higher reward is there.

This is true on paper and as long as we only discuss shooting red crosses. In reality, with the unavoidable interruptions and the inherent risks, the margin shrinks sharply.

If we're talking about industry, however, the exact opposite is true: the risks are higher, and the rewards are mechanically locked at much lower levels. Investing billions (or even trillions) will only ever yield something that is much worse in every way than what you get for free (both ISK-free and risk-free) in highsec.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#177 - 2013-07-20 06:21:47 UTC
Highsec hate is a strawman.

The real isk to be ground is in nullsec, but people who are just as bearish as they claim people in highsec are.


Nullsec sells the same things to their people that people in highsec are sold on.


Meanwhile, people are told they cannot leave highsec unless they join into the power structure of nullsec. "You'll get blobbed! You will die in a gate camp!". The propaganda campaign is ongoing and deliberate.


People are also told they need a lot of ISK and SP "before they go". This too is deliberate. Those who spread that lie are the ones who then recruit new players, acting like they are nice to new players and helping them, when all they want is numbers and cannon fodder.


Lies. The "way nullsec works" is built on lies. You don't need to be a slave. You don't need to wait.

Highsec has the power to destroy nullsec and make Eve the PVP game it was intended to be.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#178 - 2013-07-20 06:30:17 UTC
Bill Overbeck wrote:
I don't understand all this hate. Especially when it seems most of sov null sec seems to be high sec but with players as Concord. And it changes hands every once in a while.



So useless bads can can more easily convince themselves that they matter again.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#179 - 2013-07-20 06:45:04 UTC
I dont even imagine all those tears if all hisec bears invade null if hisec gets nerfed too much.

you think you'll get some sort of fun pvp? the reality is that this hisec loot pinjata target will be your corp or alliance member in no time with ship thats not worth ganking anymore and he be stealing your null pve soon enough and then what?


what will you ask to be nerfed next then?
nerfbat planted against your head maybe makes you think further indeed... or not.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#180 - 2013-07-20 07:04:49 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
It really makes no sense that the galactic Empires would allow perrenial pariahs in their midst. A negative security status should be a choice a player makes, and there should be the same level of risk involved as a solo miner/missioner... right now the people who like to ruin other people's game experience have FAR FAR more freedom and play with far less consequences than the solo missioner/miner... A pirate can destroy what it took a PVE player MONTHS to acquire, and grind back the status, ships lost (IF they even lose a ship) without ANY CONSEQUENCE WHATSOEVER.... so becoming a scumbag is actually the SAFEST way to play this game.... that is dumb.



You're right, that is pretty dumb.

So it's also fortunate that that is completely frigging wrong.

EVE, much more so than most other games, gives you many, many, very simple tools that you can use to see the Big Bads(TM) coming from miles away, and simply vanish long before they ever even land on-grid.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.