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The sneee, to end all snitches.

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Author
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-07-17 10:27:06 UTC
Sir Dragon wrote:

to presume that each new player is an EULA expert,

Don't have to be an expert - just read it - it's pretty simple, really.


Quote:

or even literate to the point of being able to read such, is utter folly.

So...there shouldn't be a EULA because there might be people playing EVE who are illiterate? Huh... Actually...that might go some way towards explaining some of the forum stuff... :D
Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
Ankle Biter's
#22 - 2013-07-17 22:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Dragon
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Sir Dragon wrote:
Every single last on of ya, . . . . .


The people doing this have read your post. In your post, you say two particularly damning things:

1) everyone who has been banned should be unbanned;

2) if you just let people hack the game, they won't be so tempted to compromise and DDoS it.

Right off the bat, you're not talking about people . . . . . .

The implicit threat in #2 is a nice touch, by the way:

Sir Dragon wrote:
How, also, would it not release the utility of an % # of your crew that is fending of cyber attacks when 1/2 of those cyber attacks would be rended NULL by simply doing this.


Nice game you got . . . .



Great , yet again :D

How does it escape you that I am refering to CCP's joust with human nature.
How does it escape you that i am not refering to the worst case senarios.
And by human nature i am refering to players that are getting banned for doing what they do in all other mmorpg's yet when they play Eve, they bring that cyber social bias with them . . expecting this game's EULA to be the same as all the other games ... and thus get banned.

Ergo -> eve is hemoraging subscribers
Pantera Home Videos:    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/ck2ykdBrDRM/Pantera-Vulgar-Video-Full-Completo.html  ;  http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/xpma3u7OjfU/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD1.html ;    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/yyO9rAx8eoQ/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD2.html .
Frying Doom
#23 - 2013-07-18 00:20:12 UTC
Sir Dragon wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Sir Dragon wrote:
Every single last on of ya, . . . . .


The people doing this have read your post. In your post, you say two particularly damning things:

1) everyone who has been banned should be unbanned;

2) if you just let people hack the game, they won't be so tempted to compromise and DDoS it.

Right off the bat, you're not talking about people . . . . . .

The implicit threat in #2 is a nice touch, by the way:

Sir Dragon wrote:
How, also, would it not release the utility of an % # of your crew that is fending of cyber attacks when 1/2 of those cyber attacks would be rended NULL by simply doing this.


Nice game you got . . . .



Great , yet again :D

How does it escape you that I am refering to CCP's joust with human nature.
How does it escape you that i am not refering to the worst case senarios.
And by human nature i am refering to players that are getting banned for doing what they do in all other mmorpg's yet when they play Eve, they bring that cyber social bias with them . . expecting this game's EULA to be the same as all the other games ... and thus get banned.

Ergo -> eve is hemoraging subscribers

Ergo -> CCP is getting rid of scum that plagued this game for so many years and we don't want them back.

Also EvE is not a game for Morons, if you cant be bothered to read the EULA, you deserve to get what is coming to you or put another way.
Adapt or Die!!

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#24 - 2013-07-18 14:23:01 UTC
Sir Dragon wrote:

Ergo -> eve is hemoraging subscribers


Since EVE's subs are at an all time high, it seems that CCP are gaining more subs from people who are happy to see cheaters banned than they're losing from the cheating community.


Excellent trade off IMO

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#25 - 2013-07-18 15:12:00 UTC
Sir Dragon wrote:
How does it escape you that I am refering to CCP's joust with human nature.


So people are just completely helpless and incapable of setting boundaries. Cool! That must be why the overwhelming majority of EVE's famously cutthroat playerbase hasn't been banned for the behavior you're talking about, right?

The fact that threats and retaliation are an indisputable part of the human condition doesn't mean that everyone else should just roll over and let them happen.

Think, man. It's not hard.

Sir Dragon wrote:
How does it escape you that i am not refering to the worst case senarios.


You are calling for everyone who's been banned to be unbanned. That, by definition, includes all the worst case scenarios. So you're just flailing.

Sir Dragon wrote:
And by human nature i am refering to players that are getting banned for doing what they do in all other mmorpg's yet when they play Eve, they bring that cyber social bias with them . . expecting this game's EULA to be the same as all the other games ... and thus get banned.


That's what the first strike is for: "Hey, yo, we don't do that here. Have a slap on the wrist." Permanent bans are reserved for people who know that they're doing something CCP doesn't want them to do, and do it anyway.

Sir Dragon wrote:
Ergo -> eve is hemoraging subscribers


Ridiculous. In fact, the player base has been growing steadily despite the bans. You should probably start there and work backward until you are forced to conclude that your false conclusion follows directly from hallucinatory premises.

If you want an arbitrarily customizable environment, Second Life is that way ---->.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-07-18 17:17:50 UTC
OP, your initial call was amnesty for ALL those who have been banned. By that inclusion you opened the door for people to counter with arguments of botters and code hackers as they are in that group.

The justification of 'It is allowed in other games' does not fly, either. If I am pulled over for speeding I do not try to excuse myself by saying that other cars were doing it as well. I honestly wonder if players in WoW complain, if caught cheating other players, that "Eve lets us do that so so should you."

Ignorance is not innocence. If it were then a lot of us would be saints. Complaints that you signed a EULA without reading it means that you were willing to put up with whatever rules they had, not that you considered yourself exempt from them because they were tl;dr

In the end . . . no. Blanket amnesty would be bad for the game. Some of them DID do bad things, KNEW they were doing bad things and did them anyway. No

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
Ankle Biter's
#27 - 2013-07-18 23:39:11 UTC
Thank you all for your excelent feed back and perception points.
The essence of the "idea" has been moved onwards to
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=260201

now if you could all stop talking about your [sensored] fealings; i could become a little less green in the face.
Pantera Home Videos:    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/ck2ykdBrDRM/Pantera-Vulgar-Video-Full-Completo.html  ;  http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/xpma3u7OjfU/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD1.html ;    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/yyO9rAx8eoQ/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD2.html .
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#28 - 2013-07-19 00:36:57 UTC
A post with a modified quote has been removed.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL

Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-07-24 18:54:02 UTC
oO worst idea EVER!

they got banned for a reason,and good riddance. your thinly veiled threats just makes me wish you get banned as well.
Harry Karri
Shattered Illusion
#30 - 2013-07-25 07:58:31 UTC
Break the rules, get burned for it, start whine thread. Got it but NO!
Tarfol
Exigent Circumstances
CAStabouts
#31 - 2013-07-26 09:28:23 UTC
You really should read every EULA you thoughtlessly click through. We all should. Most people don't. But everyone ought to realize that violation of a EULA can and will lead to enforceable sanction. It doesn't sometimes. Here it often does.

If you play the game, you opt in to the rules by accepting the EULA. If you subsequently violate those rules, you can't try and claim blamelessness based on some perceived psychosocial contextual argument. Complaining on that basis about the enforcement of sanctions for said violations is, frankly, bizarre.

If you think it's all horribly unfair, go play a different game.

As Heinlein once wrote, "TANSTAAFL."

I usually post with my main...but not this time...

Baler Noban
#32 - 2013-07-28 14:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Baler Noban
Just like all mmo, CCP is allowed to close your account for what ever reason they see fit.

From Section 5, A
"CCP may, in its sole discretion, cease to provide any or all of the services offered in connection with EVE (including access to the System and any or all features or components of the Game), terminate the EULA, close all Accounts and cancel all of the rights granted to you under the EULA."

For what ever reason they see fit to close your account it is covered by the EULA.
Upon installation of their product you agree to the EULA even if you did not read it and by clicking accept. The only way to use their product and service is to agree to these terms.
This is common in all mmo EULA, it is to cover the companies butts in case their EULA does not cover something specifically enough thus entitling someone to a lawsuit.

Look for yourself,
http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-08-01 08:58:35 UTC
Beyond all the dumb, dumb things in your post, I'm just going to go ahead and say:

Anyone who signs/agrees to anything with their name and credit card attached WITHOUT reading it, is a moron, I mean holy crap, i dont read word for word, but i at least skim every EULA/ToS i agree too (especially sine i've found many of the things allowed in EVE are bannable for being "too mean" in other MMO's).
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
Villore Accords
#34 - 2013-08-12 00:34:58 UTC
as a newbie to EVE forums im gradually learning that 90% of threads on this website are thinly veiled tear threads about personal interests.

OP got banned for cheating and feels the need to ramble on and on in language so unnecessarily purple its funny. No, none of us want you to get your character back. No, none of us feel bad that you cheated. And, no, none of us believe that you didnt read or know of the content in the EULA.

this is how the OPs first post should actually read:

"HI i used to use addons in WOW all the time but when i tried to use them in EVE i got banned and now im sad. is anyone else sad for me?"

thats pretty much the only argument hes made so far.

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#35 - 2013-08-12 20:23:00 UTC
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
as a newbie to EVE forums im gradually learning that 90% of threads on this website are thinly veiled tear threads about personal interests.



True.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-08-13 09:15:50 UTC
Sir Dragon wrote:
...
I am saying that we are fighting the nature of the regular "Joe".
Where our example pilot "Joe" is socially inclined to disregard E.U.L.A. reading and to get as many addons on its screen as possible.

Yes, very many people cannot read, [yet] that [fact] seams to escape allot of people...
If an individual can't read, they shouldn't be playing EvE. If an individual refuses to read, they should also not be playing EvE. The EULA is clear on a few issues, and if it isn't... you can ask.

What you seem to be arguing with "socially inclined to disregard" and "fighting the nature" is that people want to gain an advantage... regardless of what the EULA states. The rules say don't do it, but they choose not to care... they choose to break the rules... they choose to cheat.

Just because some people might be "socially inclined" or by "nature" cheaters... doesn't mean it should be condoned.



EULA

2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.

3. You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game

-------------------------------------
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-08-14 09:19:32 UTC
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
as a newbie to EVE forums im gradually learning that 90% of threads on this website are thinly veiled tear threads about personal interests.

OP got banned for cheating and feels the need to ramble on and on in language so unnecessarily purple its funny. No, none of us want you to get your character back. No, none of us feel bad that you cheated. And, no, none of us believe that you didnt read or know of the content in the EULA.

this is how the OPs first post should actually read:

"HI i used to use addons in WOW all the time but when i tried to use them in EVE i got banned and now im sad. is anyone else sad for me?"

thats pretty much the only argument hes made so far.


For a forum newbie you learn fast.

OP: I know you apparently can't comprehend things you read, since not a single sympathetic post has appeared so far. Please don't let the door hit you where Minmatar god's split you. If you need a quick and effortless influx of ISK in this game, buy a PLEX and support your fellow pilots and CCP at the same time. Botting/Hacking ruins the game by wrecking the in-game economy for people who actually can read and follow the EULA. Not one ounce of sympathy. Before you quit...can I has your stuffs?
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
#38 - 2013-08-26 04:10:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rosewalker
Malcanis wrote:
Sir Dragon wrote:

Ergo -> eve is hemoraging subscribers


Since EVE's subs are at an all time high, it seems that CCP are gaining more subs from people who are happy to see cheaters banned than they're losing from the cheating community.


Excellent trade off IMO


There was a paper done by Professor Edward Castronova of Indiana University in 2006 that found that the 3rd party RMT sites probably cost MMO companies possibly over a million dollars a year per 100,000 players. Earlier this year he revisited the question and he still maintains 3rd party RMT sites cost game companies money. So getting rid of the ISK sellers who work outside the approved PLEX to ISK system is good for business as games with less of the activity are more likely to hold onto players.

And before Malcanis asks for links, here they are...

To download the original paper...
A Cost-Benefit Analysis of Real-Money Trade in the Products of Synthetic Economies

Professor Castronova's update...
Question: Why is 3rd Party RMT Evil?

The Nosy Gamer - CCP Random: "hehe, falls under the category: nice try, but no. ;)"

Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-08-27 02:41:40 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sir Dragon wrote:


We are not comprehending all the other cases that are absolutlly not deserving of a perminent bans; thus, we have spawned an entire base of unethically banned players...


I disagree. They chose to cheat. They chose to ignore the rules. They deserve to be banned.

I have zero sympathy.



Completely agree, I am tired of people thinking they deserve a warning or a second chance.
Sir Dragon
Einherjar Yggdrasils
Ankle Biter's
#40 - 2013-09-14 10:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Dragon
Yi-Ming Gren wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Sir Dragon wrote:


We are not comprehending all the other cases that are absolutlly not deserving of a perminent bans; thus, we have spawned an entire base of unethically banned players...


I disagree. They chose to cheat. They chose to ignore the rules. They deserve to be banned.

I have zero sympathy.



Completely agree, I am tired of people thinking they deserve a warning or a second chance.



Thank you . . .
What about designing an "Ravenloft" . . .
or the concept of Níðhöggs Chamber (hell) . .

So lets say a person can't stop the offenses due to its simple Evil nature . . .
so instead of "banning" all the Evil people . . . and inveitabbly as the curve reaches infinity . . . having a player base of [censored] up good goody two shoes that don't know [censored] . . . all the Evil people would be in an private "Níðhögs-Chamber" / Hell / Ravenloft . . . Duking it out or forming alliances . . .

Hey maybe when all you [not u Ming Gren] evolve outof your [censored] egoes and see the forest for the BARKING . . . this post will make senece.

Edited for clarity :
A curve reaching infinity is a math concept . . . i am pointing out that the continued action of banning people for their "Ebil" nature will inevitably "given time" give us a player base of "goody goody two shoes".
Pantera Home Videos:    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/ck2ykdBrDRM/Pantera-Vulgar-Video-Full-Completo.html  ;  http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/xpma3u7OjfU/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD1.html ;    http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/yyO9rAx8eoQ/Pantera-Watch-It-Go-Full-Completo-CD2.html .
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