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Make Piracy have REAL consequences

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Kyperion
#21 - 2013-07-18 06:31:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
dexington wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Why?
Pirates shot him and he is unable to do anything about it, so now he wants ccp to punish them.
More accurately: pirates shot him and he refuses to do anything about it, so now he wants CCP to compensate for his incompetence.

…which is exactly what raises the question: why?

I see the unevolved neanderthals are online in force tonight.... a PVE fit will not do anything against a PVP ship.... which is the main problem, you PVPers don't want challenge, just target practice... what you do is LESS challenging than a LVL 4 mission.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-07-18 06:31:38 UTC
Kyperion wrote:

I chose to engage the -10 ninja salvager, in a situation I knew I would probably lose. But it doesn't make sense to me all these scumbags running around ganking people without consequences, and when you have to fit your ship or fly entirely DIFFERENT ships for PVE/PVP... a player shooting at you without getting concorded is NOT a meaningful consequence.... if the PVP crowd wants to engage PVE even if they don't want it, CCP should either make the NPCs maniacally hunt the pirates, or make PVP/PVE fitting and ships the same ergo, I could easily PVE AND PVP in the same ship with the same fitting.

well, salvaging and looting wrecks is a waste of time, anyway.

npcs nowadays actually will consider all the player ships they can see as targets, and may choose to target anyone. some ccp guys have said in the past they want to make pve and pve fits more like pvp, which is something i'm looking forward to as well.

shooting does have consequences, but not if you chose to shoot him first. which was silly.

you're overreacting.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-07-18 06:33:12 UTC
Kyperion wrote:

I see the unevolved neanderthals are online in force tonight.... a PVE fit will not do anything against a PVP ship.... which is the main problem, you PVPers don't want challenge, just target practice... what you do is LESS challenging than a LVL 4 mission.

no, mission gankers are looking for people who'll let themselves get killed. why do you have to be so insulting of people who just happen to play differently than you?
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-07-18 06:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
Kyperion wrote:
Tippia wrote:
dexington wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Why?
Pirates shot him and he is unable to do anything about it, so now he wants ccp to punish them.
More accurately: pirates shot him and he refuses to do anything about it, so now he wants CCP to compensate for his incompetence.

…which is exactly what raises the question: why?

I see the unevolved neanderthals are online in force tonight.... a PVE fit will not do anything against a PVP ship.... which is the main problem, you PVPers don't want challenge, just target practice... what you do is LESS challenging than a LVL 4 mission.


So your admitting you know you made a poor choice and you want somebody else to do something about it. And we are the unevolved?
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-07-18 06:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: dexington
Kyperion wrote:
1 v 1 I would have won, pirate was a multiboxer.... I took him to structure even though I was completely and ridiculously NOT fitted for a PVP engagement.


Learn to fly ships you can afford to lose, and maybe it would actually have been a good fight for you, even if you lost.

You are the one doing it wrong not the pirate, stop asking ccp to change the game because it's to hard with other players around.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2013-07-18 06:42:48 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
I see the unevolved neanderthals are online in force tonight.
So you agree, then, and can't think of a single argument to the contrary since you have to resort to ad hominems in an (ultimately failed) attempt at saving face.

The fact remains: you refuse to do anything about it and you want CCP to compensate for your choice.

Quote:
a PVE fit will not do anything against a PVP ship
…aside from, you know, do damage to it. The gankers you're complaining about want money, same as you. They just choose a more involved and difficult way of making it than the brainlessness of an L4 mission.
Chic Botany
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-07-18 06:44:10 UTC
Kyperion wrote:

I chose to engage the -10 ninja salvager, in a situation I knew I would probably lose. But it doesn't make sense to me all these scumbags running around ganking people without consequences, and when you have to fit your ship or fly entirely DIFFERENT ships for PVE/PVP... a player shooting at you without getting concorded is NOT a meaningful consequence.... if the PVP crowd wants to engage PVE even if they don't want it, CCP should either make the NPCs maniacally hunt the pirates, or make PVP/PVE fitting and ships the same ergo, I could easily PVE AND PVP in the same ship with the same fitting.


Aha, posting in a stealth "Ninja Salvaging should be concordable" thread :)

Salvage does not belong to you, salvage belongs to the person who activates the salvage modules. The loot inside the wreck does belong to the person who destroyed the ship, and if the salvager just salvaged then there was no crime committed.

If however the salvager took the loot inside the wreck at the same time, then you can rightly shoot at them, but a judgement process should be followed.

1) Can his ship assplode my ship?
2) Will he warp off as soon as I take the first shot, go fit in a more pvp geared ship
3) Has he got mates who will come in and gank you


If you're in doubt about any of the above 3, then ignore him, either warp out of your mission, let the rats persuade him to leave, or just let him get on with it.

By shooting him he got what he wanted, a kill and a laugh.

Don't say anything, don't convo him, don't rage in local, don't rage on the forum, just ignore him, if it happens on a regular occurrence then move your missioning set up from a major mission running hub.
Kyperion
#28 - 2013-07-18 06:44:40 UTC
Donbe Scurred wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Tippia wrote:
dexington wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Why?
Pirates shot him and he is unable to do anything about it, so now he wants ccp to punish them.
More accurately: pirates shot him and he refuses to do anything about it, so now he wants CCP to compensate for his incompetence.

…which is exactly what raises the question: why?

I see the unevolved neanderthals are online in force tonight.... a PVE fit will not do anything against a PVP ship.... which is the main problem, you PVPers don't want challenge, just target practice... what you do is LESS challenging than a LVL 4 mission.


So your admitting you know you made a poor choice and you want somebody else to do something about it. And we are the unevolvedQuestion

I'm not talking about my specific choice, I'm talking about the overarching PVP/PVE player base... being a pirate in highsec is ridiculously easy, its where the players who either have no experience or limited/no interest in PVP are... therefore they will either not engage said pirate, or they will be easy prey.

It is made even easier by the fact that a PVE fit will die horribly against PVP fits.... and PVE fits are generally way more expensive.

if PVE fits could compete against PVP fits, you'd see a lot less epeen pirates in the game AND on the forums... the PVP crowd isn't nearly as good at this game as they think they are.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#29 - 2013-07-18 06:45:39 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Security status once it drops to 0 should always be negative and merely jumping into a high sec system should get a pirate killed, the same way the U.S. Navy and British Navy before terminated with extreme prejudice pirate scumbags.


When was the last time you attacked someone with a criminal flag?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Cecil Montague
PCG Enterprises
#30 - 2013-07-18 06:45:58 UTC
Kyperion wrote:

I chose to engage the -10 ninja salvager, in a situation I knew I would probably lose. But it doesn't make sense to me all these scumbags running around ganking people without consequences, and when you have to fit your ship or fly entirely DIFFERENT ships for PVE/PVP... a player shooting at you without getting concorded is NOT a meaningful consequence.... if the PVP crowd wants to engage PVE even if they don't want it, CCP should either make the NPCs maniacally hunt the pirates, or make PVP/PVE fitting and ships the same ergo, I could easily PVE AND PVP in the same ship with the same fitting.


Long term I believe CCP does intend to make PvE content that forces you to use PvP fittings and tactics. In the mean time there are several things you can do to mitigate the danger of being ganked.

1) Don't over pimp your ship.
2) Don't mission in or near market/mission hubs. Find a quiet system 5 or more jumps away.
3) Don't sit on the entry beacon to a site. Move off it and keep moving, where possible stay aligned to something.
4) Have insta undock BM's on any station you use especially if it's a kick out station, though if you undock and there are half a dozen guys in Nado's sitting outside milling about you ctrl-space, wait out your 10 seconds then redock and go do something else.
5) Have local open and in a seperate viewable window at all times. If you see a bunch of outlaws enter system dock up and wait (or better yet switch to a PvP ship and try and get some kills)

Other than that the best thing you can do is accept the fact that you are never safe and sooner or later you will get blown up. Plan accordingly.

"There is no such thing as an effective segment of Totality" - Bruce Lee: The only man with a Chuck Norris killmail.
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-07-18 06:46:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
But you chose to PVP in a fit that is for PVE, how is that anyone's fault but your own. CCP didn't make you engage.

He couldn't do anything with out you engaging. How is that easy? He has to rely on the poor choice of another.

Again, try it out before you continue on about how easy it is.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2013-07-18 06:50:26 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
its where the players who either have no experience or limited/no interest in PVP are... therefore they will either not engage said pirate, or they will be easy prey.
In other words, there are real consequences. People just choose not to enforce them. This makes it a people problem, not a game problem, and as such is not something the game should (or can) compensate for.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#33 - 2013-07-18 06:55:07 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
Pirates should be instantly banned from EVE.

how did you ever come up with such a genius proposal?

You must be declared the CEO of CCP right away!
Kyperion
#34 - 2013-07-18 07:12:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
its where the players who either have no experience or limited/no interest in PVP are... therefore they will either not engage said pirate, or they will be easy prey.
In other words, there are real consequences. People just choose not to enforce them. This makes it a people problem, not a game problem, and as such is not something the game should (or can) compensate for.

A new player or player in a PVE fit does NOT have a choice to engage only to die... also, since the pirates are generally well established players, the new/pve players cannot afford to lose as much... the SYSTEM creates the problem, not the players
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#35 - 2013-07-18 07:18:13 UTC
Errrm no OP, don't agree with that sorry.

A better idea would be to make people with a positive standing immune to bounties. Only the low security pirate scumbags should have bounties. Thats about as close to "real consequences" as we'll be able to get i think.

Certainly better than the current catch-all worthlessness of the current bounty system.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2013-07-18 07:19:33 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
A new player or player in a PVE fit does NOT have a choice to engage only to die.
A new player will also not be targeted because he has nothing valuable to take. If he's ganked, then he can bring in help to get his comeuppance, same as everyone else.
Kyperion
#37 - 2013-07-18 07:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyperion
Tippia wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
A new player or player in a PVE fit does NOT have a choice to engage only to die.
A new player will also not be targeted because he has nothing valuable to take. If he's ganked, then he can bring in help to get his comeuppance, same as everyone else.

And a new player will most likely not have any help to bring in, and even if he does it'll be far to late for most engagements.

There is absolutely zero justification for the turkey shoot that is high sec pirating/ganking.

ESPECIALLY from the likes of people who want all money making ability nerfed out of high sec.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2013-07-18 07:26:41 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
And a new player will most likely not have any help to bring in
Sure he will. He'll be in a whole corp full of them. He also has 30 days to do it, so “too late” would only be the case if he suffered catastrophic hardware failure.

Quote:
There is absolutely zero justification for the turkey shoot that is high sec pirating/ganking.
Yes there is: because that's the environment the highsec players willingly create.
Nuglord
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2013-07-18 07:45:15 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
dexington wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Why?


Pirates shot him and he is unable to do anything about it, so now he wants ccp to punish them.


.... 1 v 1 I would have won, pirate was a multiboxer.... I took him to structure even though I was completely and ridiculously NOT fitted for a PVP engagement.

Post your lossmail.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2013-07-18 08:14:24 UTC
Just how I want my coffee; black and with tears from a carebear.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.