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removal of the one-man corp anti-wardec exploit and wardec dodging in general.
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Laendra
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-07-17 19:41:31 UTC
I see the solution as this. When someone leaves a corp with an active wardec, they get a 1 week kill right against them from the corp that wardec'd them. Anyone in that corp can claim and exercise that kill right, but it cannot be sold.
xxBLACK SKULLxx 929
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS
#42 - 2013-07-17 20:01:06 UTC
Apologizes OP I thought this was a carry over from Minerbumping.com .

Black
929

As for who I'm am. All you need to know is that I gank in High-sec.
But lets try to stay on topic.

Psychotic Monk for CSM!  If it flys it dies.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-07-17 20:45:28 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
The funny thing is, James 315 started bumping from an NPC corp. But carebears said he was hiding in the NPC corp and was too afraid of their mighty wardec's to join a player corp. So he did, because unlike almost the rest of hisec, he actually knows the game mechanics. Since then it has been one huge outpouring of glorious tears when carebears find their own weapons used against them. I consider this thread a part of that continuous deluge of salty goodness.

Fix wardecs by all means. Its easy peasy. Anyone in the corp on either side of the wardec carries the war with them for the remaining duration of the war regardless of them dropping corp or not. The New Order would fully support that change. As I'm sure Whores in Space, The Marmite Collective, Somali Bootcamp, Shoulda Checked Local, etc... would.


Please stay on topic. If you think my fix won't work, say what you think will instead of simply trolling.

Edit: Apologies, didn;t see that you had already.

However, this thread is not meant to tear extraction, its meant to bring such solutions to CCP's attention so they can potentially impliment them.


You should check out the "Join the ISD" threads if you want to be a forum cop. I bet reading comprehension is on the requirements list though.

tl;dr you're not the boss of me.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#44 - 2013-07-17 20:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Lynch
xxBLACK SKULLxx 929 wrote:
Apologizes OP I thought this was a carry over from Minerbumping.com .

Black
929

As for who I'm am. All you need to know is that I gank in High-sec.
But lets try to stay on topic.


Agreed. Please stay on the topic if you do not have an idea or counter arguement to contribute.

Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Capt Lynch wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
The funny thing is, James 315 started bumping from an NPC corp. But carebears said he was hiding in the NPC corp and was too afraid of their mighty wardec's to join a player corp. So he did, because unlike almost the rest of hisec, he actually knows the game mechanics. Since then it has been one huge outpouring of glorious tears when carebears find their own weapons used against them. I consider this thread a part of that continuous deluge of salty goodness.

Fix wardecs by all means. Its easy peasy. Anyone in the corp on either side of the wardec carries the war with them for the remaining duration of the war regardless of them dropping corp or not. The New Order would fully support that change. As I'm sure Whores in Space, The Marmite Collective, Somali Bootcamp, Shoulda Checked Local, etc... would.


Please stay on topic. If you think my fix won't work, say what you think will instead of simply trolling.

Edit: Apologies, didn;t see that you had already.

However, this thread is not meant to tear extraction, its meant to bring such solutions to CCP's attention so they can potentially impliment them.


You should check out the "Join the ISD" threads if you want to be a forum cop. I bet reading comprehension is on the requirements list though.

tl;dr you're not the boss of me.


Keep on topic please. I never said I was the boss of you and I definately didn't say I was a 'forum cop'. I just do not want to see this forum descend into a thread of trolls and insults.

My misread of your first one was a mistake, one many people make on forums

Do you have any ideas to make it so NPC wardecs wouldn;t be abused?

Laendra wrote:
I see the solution as this. When someone leaves a corp with an active wardec, they get a 1 week kill right against them from the corp that wardec'd them. Anyone in that corp can claim and exercise that kill right, but it cannot be sold.


That is the sort of idea this thread needs. Well done, Laendra.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#45 - 2013-07-17 23:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Imagine the tears from the risk averse baddies if their ability to quickly and cheaply avoid wardecs was removed

this will never happen, unfortunately

Might as well make like James and use it to our own advantage. The carebears made this bed, now they can lie in it.

This is basically a summary of how it is now:

PVP corp war dec industrial corp
Industrialists all drop / reform corp
Industrialists happy with their ability to avoid war

PVP corp annoy industrial corp in other ways
Industrialists war dec PVP corp
PVP corp drop / reform corp
Industrialists angry at someone having ability to avoid war

bears want one set of rules for themselves, and another set for everyone else
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-07-17 23:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
Laendra wrote:
I see the solution as this. When someone leaves a corp with an active wardec, they get a 1 week kill right against them from the corp that wardec'd them. Anyone in that corp can claim and exercise that kill right, but it cannot be sold.


A one time killright the guy can burn off at Planet X in a velator with a friend is no solution. Even if it is only towards the corp that made the wardec, a one time kill isn't "fair" either. Just cruise around doing your business in a venture or atron until you get popped once. Who cares.

Someone had to pay to wardec the corp, the wardec should follow those players until the time expires.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#47 - 2013-07-18 00:00:32 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Laendra wrote:
I see the solution as this. When someone leaves a corp with an active wardec, they get a 1 week kill right against them from the corp that wardec'd them. Anyone in that corp can claim and exercise that kill right, but it cannot be sold.


A one time killright the guy can burn off at Planet X in a velator with a friend is no solution. Someone had to pay to wardec the corp, the wardec should follow those players until the time expires.


I think even a more limited timer (why not go with the often used 24 hour one, for example) in which they are still valid targets is enough.

The penalty for trashing an entire corp and starting again should be high though - bump the cost of forming a corp up to 50m at the very least so it's in line with war decs
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-07-18 03:25:13 UTC
Sorry Gunslinger, I thought I got the edit in before anyone had even seen it. I don't think it changes your point, but I kind of feel bad.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#49 - 2013-07-18 04:20:52 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
bears want one set of rules for themselves, and another set for everyone else



some bears....


OP is not representative of the bear population.


Some would trade in sec status to kill the bumper for giggles and grins.

Others would counter bump him with another ship.


And the really smart bears learned mining sucked ass and went to mission running, exploring, etc.



Also industrialists is a bad example. Those who whine would be idiots that don't represent the indy profession. Smart ones have the trade hub alt perma docked in the trade hub, inventors/builders permadocked in station/pos and the haulers are neut or straight npc corp. This would not be a empire trademark either. I had a neut hauler take my 0.0 goodies to jita. this is also how most corp/alliance moon goo stuff gets to jita as well. Not many want to feed the 4-4 nutswingers fat multibliion isk moon goo kills for some odd reason...
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-07-18 06:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Iudicium Vastus
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:


...

Someone had to pay to wardec the corp, the wardec should follow those players until the time expires.


Maybe deccing corps should be a bit less reckless in picking names to dec. Even in other threads, mercs have mentioned researching target corps and pilots, making sure they're not the type or likely to drop/disband to avoid the dec before paying out. Don't [wardec] what you can't afford to [miss].

In addition, It's been said before and gets repeated in threads of this nature. Wardecs are against the corp, not the members or players.
If that was the case, then ways to keep selected individuals perma-harassed/griefed would be abused.

Repeated even more than anything else on these wardec threads, you cannot force your methods or vision of playing onto someone else. If you really have it out for some pilots, there have been suggested ways to still inflict pvp on them, such as suicide gank. But you cannot force someone to undock to fight, or lock them into corps to stay under an unwanted dec.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Soelent
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-07-20 20:52:12 UTC
why dont we simply employ the laws of physics into this.. its a simple fix (more or less) for CCP..


if a small object running at high speed hits a large object traveling slowely, laws of conservation of momentum, etc..


Similar to the analogy of you running into a train (end on)... you would not impart enough energy to move the train very much.. if at all.. but you would bounce off..


now imagine a little frigate or cruiser hitting a huge mining ship, and liken it to the above analogy of you, running into a train.. (retriever 20millionkg, vs say, a catalyst at 1.5..)


dont need to fix the wardec, just refine the bumping physics he would have to rock up in a carrier with 5 MWDs from 500kms away to get anywhere near enough momentum to bump the ship...



now isnt that a better idea - screwing over the kiddies doing the bumping, without screwing over the wardec system (completely)

i would like to see it refined tho, maybe adding a "cooldown timer" to the player, like was suggested, a 24 or 48hour killright on said player leaving corp, or a 24hour name restriction for new corps (ie you cant make a corp with the same name for 24 hours after disbanding your old corp)
Daniel Jackson
Universal Exos
#52 - 2013-07-20 21:04:51 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Capt Lynch wrote:
DrysonBennington wrote:
The way I see it if a One Man Corp wants to war dec an Alliance then more power to them. If the Alliance can't handle one little troublesome gnat then maybe they shouldn't be in an alliance to begin with.


You misread...it was Black legion who wardecced after James 315 harassed their high sec training corps industrial operation and James 315 who instantly used the exploit to didge the wardec in literally a minute and continued.

What exactly was he able to do?

Did he figure out a way to avoid sec status penalties?

I seriously don't play enough in high sec to know the details of his harassment.



James 315 is that minerbumper idiot who thinks he controlls High sec. He bumped all their ice miners away mid cycle and tried to extort them...when they wardecced him, he simply carried out the exploit, avoiding the wardec, keeping his corp and costing Black Legion 50 million isk...all in the space of 1 minute...and he can carry this exploit out as many times as he wants if he is again wardecced

how about a way to Anchor our ships o-o, we already can anchor cans so why not ships

I Vote YES! for Downloadable HI-RES Textures!!!!
Laendra
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-07-24 18:57:42 UTC
Daniel Jackson wrote:
how about a way to Anchor our ships o-o, we already can anchor cans so why not ships


I had posted that feature/suggestion at least once before. Where the mining ship can "deploy" like a rorqual, basically multiplying its mass and changing velocity to 0. Putting it on a cycle timer would increase your risk to suicide ganks, but would prevent the harassment of the bumping by these idiots.

As a side note, I find those idiots doing the bumping rather amusing, in that they have found a way to ruin the enjoyment of others in the game, completely within the defined mechanics of the game, and have been gathering many m³ of tears in the process. If they weren't highsec wusses that won't pvp, I'd say they were goon material.
WindRode
Kairiola's Legacy
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#54 - 2013-07-25 09:56:59 UTC
You cannot stop a player leaving a corp. or stop a corp being wound up, but the simple fix is that a Wardec should also be attached to a corp's members. Any player in a corp that has been wardec'd should remain a valid War Target untill the wardec is dropped by the corp that declared the war.

If the player leaves the Corp and goes to a NPC Corp, then the player takes the WD with them, but it does not affect the rest of the NPC corp unless they fleet with the player holding the Wardec. Additionally, make it so that you can Wardec and individual Alt.

Simple and fixes the exploit
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-07-25 10:19:10 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:
This is a problematic exploit that was no doubt requested by players sick of getting wardecced, which is a way of life in EVE.

However, it is getting out of control as several characters, most famously James 315 (his employment history is proof of this exploit if compared against wardecs sent against his character and the corp named) use it to avoid the concequences that is boasted all over EVE.

For people using this exploit, predominantly one-man corporations they are able to harass, grief and gank without the worry of a wardec thanks to the ability to simply close and instantly open an identical corp, therefore nullifying the wardec and costing the deccer 50 million isk and then continuing with the actions that caused the wardec.

This exploit needs to be removed or modified so players cannot instantly close and reset their corp without some kind of penalty that would actively discourage such action. Players that anger other playermade corps need to take their medicine and equally must also be able to attack other corps without the annoyance of their target simply resetting their corp and avoiding the dec.

This exploit's removal may make high sec a little more dangerous for the corps that are just beginning, but thats EVE for you. People will always want to kick over your sandcastle or burn your corp, be you just a small time mining corp or James 315 himself.




My suggestion always was. When you are at wardec.. and you want to close your corp.. you need to pay 100M isk to the part that started the war upon you.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#56 - 2013-07-25 10:33:25 UTC
Its hilerious who mich Impact James 315 does have...

Hey, People listen quitting a Corp while in War is just a stupid mechanic, CCP should change this. The End.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#57 - 2013-07-25 12:15:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


My suggestion always was. When you are at wardec.. and you want to close your corp.. you need to pay 100M isk to the part that started the war upon you.


doesnt really help because of alt CEO's

War decs aren't useful for attacking individuals, u war dec the corp not the player. try ganking his stabber, at least with his bounty u'll get small payments for it lol.

its widely regarded that many ice miners are botters and afk miners, so each one that is griefed helps my own mining toon. Cool

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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