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best level 4 mission running ship
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superdon
Confederation Navy Research
#121 - 2013-07-14 17:42:08 UTC
Best Mission ship? Depends Really.

Best ship for the money? Dominix or Typhoon

Best tanky ship? Rattlesnake or Navy Scorpion

Best overall? Machariel with the Navy Raven nipping at it's heels.

There are of course more categories with different ships being the best one for each.

The days of the Mach being the answer to every question posed in EVE are over. And that's a good thing.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#122 - 2013-07-14 19:01:42 UTC
superdon wrote:
The days of the Mach being the answer to every question posed in EVE never existed. And that's a good thing.

FTFY

The Machariel has always been good, it's still good, but the ultimate answer to every question ever posed about EVE? lol, no. It's the same as the Tengu, its a good ship, but its reputation far outweighs the reality.
Jaynen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#123 - 2013-07-14 19:34:51 UTC
TFI = Typhoon or Tempest Fleet issue? which is the one competing with the Machariel?
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#124 - 2013-07-15 15:27:22 UTC
I'm curious about the various fittings used for the Domi. Ugly as it is, I can use Garde II's and assorted other T2 drones, as well as fly the Domi, but I've never considered using it on level 4's. While gate to gate travel can be a little slow, I'm interested in what sort of investment a ship like that would take. I've been running L4's in a Loki, and while it does it's job decently, certain combinations like web + neut can result in a dead Loki rather quickly.

For someone that is tired of speed tanking, what are these L4 Domi fits?

Profit favors the prepared
Qalix
Long Jump.
#125 - 2013-07-15 16:58:59 UTC
I do just fine with both a Raven and Maelstrom, t2 fit, but meta guns/launchers. Dual boxing (actually alt+tabbing) with these two I put the Raven on the BS and the Mael on the sub-BS. I almost never have to use drones and only once have I gotten to low shields on either ship and that was an epic arc mission where I screwed up my ranges from the get go.

Don't obsess about your L4 ship. There really isn't any need for all the pimp mods, faction ships, etc. in L4s. You start talking about Incursions or Sanctums or whatever and then it makes more sense.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2013-07-15 22:31:35 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
I'm curious about the various fittings used for the Domi. Ugly as it is, I can use Garde II's and assorted other T2 drones, as well as fly the Domi, but I've never considered using it on level 4's. While gate to gate travel can be a little slow, I'm interested in what sort of investment a ship like that would take. I've been running L4's in a Loki, and while it does it's job decently, certain combinations like web + neut can result in a dead Loki rather quickly.

For someone that is tired of speed tanking, what are these L4 Domi fits?


[Dominix, mission]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, unscripted

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ancillary Current Router II


Garde II x5

812 DPS with my skills out to 86km

Art of Explosions
Jorma Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2013-07-15 22:52:23 UTC
I've seen the dominix take a swing in popularity, thanks to the Gallente Battleship skill improving tracking and optimal for drones as well as drone damage/hp. If you're relying on drones as your main damage source, I highly recommend training for sentry drones - you can switch from sniping to shorter range sentries (Bouncer II to Garde II).
Makra
Heodener
#128 - 2013-07-16 04:58:17 UTC
I like the domi, it can spider tank also but typically for solo content i would shield tank it
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#129 - 2013-07-16 07:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Evei Shard wrote:
I'm curious about the various fittings used for the Domi. Ugly as it is, I can use Garde II's and assorted other T2 drones, as well as fly the Domi, but I've never considered using it on level 4's. While gate to gate travel can be a little slow, I'm interested in what sort of investment a ship like that would take. I've been running L4's in a Loki, and while it does it's job decently, certain combinations like web + neut can result in a dead Loki rather quickly.

For someone that is tired of speed tanking, what are these L4 Domi fits?


See Tsukino's fit for the general gist.

I use 2x aux nano pumps to reduce resist mods by 1 to free up a low to get an extra damage mod (usually a magstab, but against sansha it might well be a 4th DDA).
I rarely fit 3 omnis, and I usually use racial sentries beyond 60km. I usually have tracking comp and sebo in the mids, or 2x eccm for gurista instead of the 3 omnis. Due to the way damage holes work, this is often not a trade off damage vs utility at all, its just free utility. I use an MWD, and I never MJD. I just kill everything then MWD to the next gate. If there is no gating required, then I do not bring a prop mod.
I usually use rails - 5x350mm. To get the control range for the drones right out to 99 (given my skills), I have a drone control rig and only 1 drone link aug.

The turrets aren't bonused anymore, so lasers are a perfectly reasonable fit too.
Kara Corvinus
United Caldari Navy
United Caldari Space Command.
#130 - 2013-07-16 11:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Corvinus
Just wanted to add my 2 cents,

Ive recently switched to a navy issue geddon, i absolutely love it , the dps is a solid 1.1k + and i get a good 712dps tank,

highs
7x pulse II 1x drone aug
mids :: 1x AB 1x TC 2x cap rech
lows :: 3x heat sinks / 4 hardeners / LAR
rigs ::nano pump + 2x ccc's
now i don't get the range of a NM / snake / mach, all ships ive used in the past, but it hits for 1.1k dps as mentioned ( 7 pulse & 5 sentry's is OP imo... ), at about 65km with scorch, more then you need for most missions, i have to slow-boat on a few tho ( 400ms with ab )

and your looking at 500m isk vs 1.5b isk + for ship + fittings.

imagine an abaddon with sentries = NI geddon :)

A seriously overlooked ship IMO.
Obron Mettlo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2013-07-16 21:17:35 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
I'm curious about the various fittings used for the Domi. Ugly as it is, I can use Garde II's and assorted other T2 drones, as well as fly the Domi, but I've never considered using it on level 4's. While gate to gate travel can be a little slow, I'm interested in what sort of investment a ship like that would take. I've been running L4's in a Loki, and while it does it's job decently, certain combinations like web + neut can result in a dead Loki rather quickly.

For someone that is tired of speed tanking, what are these L4 Domi fits?


[Dominix, mission]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, unscripted

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ancillary Current Router II


Garde II x5

812 DPS with my skills out to 86km


Would you suggest fitting some tracking beams (to bring loot in) and salvaging mod to make more $$$?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#132 - 2013-07-17 02:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Obron Mettlo wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


... MJD Domi ...



Would you suggest fitting some tracking beams (to bring loot in) and salvaging mod to make more $$$?


Its a cap booster domi - it starts missions with a full cargo - and its also an MJD fit which will kill stuff well beyond an unbonused tractors range., so you may not even have any space to loot/salvage with until you've done a couple of pockets, but you'll pay the penalty of less dps because of the missing guns anyway AND can't reach the loot. Marauders are better for loot/salvage as you go gameplay - they've got more cargo too.

If you solo and use a domi and want to salvage, do missions for 90 mins, bookmark all the pockets as you go, then head out in the noctis and clear them (preferably in order that you created the wreck pockets so that no wrecks desoawn). Note I've been trialling blitzing, and since the patch its now trivial for me to get an MWD onto a domi, its actually a lot better at it than it used to be, so you can get to well above 50mil isk/hr average if you don't salvage (LP presumed worth 1000 for sake of that figure).
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#133 - 2013-07-17 04:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
I'm curious about the various fittings used for the Domi. Ugly as it is, I can use Garde II's and assorted other T2 drones, as well as fly the Domi, but I've never considered using it on level 4's. While gate to gate travel can be a little slow, I'm interested in what sort of investment a ship like that would take. I've been running L4's in a Loki, and while it does it's job decently, certain combinations like web + neut can result in a dead Loki rather quickly.

For someone that is tired of speed tanking, what are these L4 Domi fits?


[Dominix, mission]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, unscripted

Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L
1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I, Proton L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ancillary Current Router II


Garde II x5

812 DPS with my skills out to 86km


My TFI is 1200 DPS at 75k. Ran it vs the Mach in the Assault back to back. On paper it should complete the mission 25% faster because of damage projection on paper. . In reality both completed it in just under 35 minutes. Bounty ticks were identical. The Machs certainly not the fastest ship @ every mission, but paper DPS lies IMHO. You just have to get a feel for each ship. So far the only 'top mission runner' I dont use is the NM.

Kara Corvinus wrote:
Just wanted to add my 2 cents,

Ive recently switched to a navy issue geddon, i absolutely love it , the dps is a solid 1.1k + and i get a good 712dps tank,

highs
7x pulse II 1x drone aug
mids :: 1x AB 1x TC 2x cap rech
lows :: 3x heat sinks / 4 hardeners / LAR
rigs ::nano pump + 2x ccc's
now i don't get the range of a NM / snake / mach, all ships ive used in the past, but it hits for 1.1k dps as mentioned ( 7 pulse & 5 sentry's is OP imo... ), at about 65km with scorch, more then you need for most missions, i have to slow-boat on a few tho ( 400ms with ab )

and your looking at 500m isk vs 1.5b isk + for ship + fittings.

imagine an abaddon with sentries = NI geddon :)

A seriously overlooked ship IMO.


That might be my next boat. Thanks.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#134 - 2013-07-17 11:40:40 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:


My TFI is 1200 DPS at 75k. Ran it vs the Mach in the Assault back to back. On paper it should complete the mission 25% faster because of damage projection on paper. . In reality both completed it in just under 35 minutes. Bounty ticks were identical. The Machs certainly not the fastest ship @ every mission, but paper DPS lies IMHO. You just have to get a feel for each ship. So far the only 'top mission runner' I dont use is the NM.


You can say this to "EFT warriors" till your avatar is blue in the face like some space chick Captain kirk would bang (lol), but it never quite gets through. This is not directed at anyone in this thread in particular, I'm speaking in General Terms.

Even though I 'knew' that, I have in the past fallen for the 'big numbers' I'd see in EFT and want to try things out. So a couple years ago I super pimped my Mach and used it for a couple days in an upgraded null system against Guristas rats. I only used it when no one else was in system late at night lol, I even docked when a CORP mate came into system because he was new and I didn't want to risk an awox that would get me in the news.

And it would have gotten me in the news, its was a 22 bil Mach. Yep, an officer fit Mach more expensive than a super-carrier.

And it made 2 or 3 mil more per tick than my regularly (faction and Tech2) fit machariel. After a disappointing couple days of using it and being scared to death, I shipped those officer guns, gyros and tracking mods right back to empire and sold them lol.

It's because there are sooooo many variables that affect performance in EVE, variables EFT and the like (great out of game tools that are) can't take into account. Like wasted damage (my officer 800mm Acs wasted a LOT of damage) or drone cycle times (sentries waste loads of damage when they shoot at ships that already have very few hitpoints left but the drones still goes through it's full "re-target" cycle).

The Fleet Phoon is awesome, I've experimented with it in Null and it compared favorable to the mach in isk generation but still can't match it overall (i won't be using a fleet phoon to tank a 10/10 like i do with my mach lol).

Before Odyssey there were some arguments about the Fleet Phoon vs the CNR and it was mostly an eft-warrioring argument that the CNR was useless against the fleet phoon. We know that'`s not totally true now, and I made the argument that a ship in EVE is sooo much more than it's paper DPS or even is "damage projection" ability. I put my isk were my space-mouth was and bought up a bunch of CNRs to sell post patch.

And i'm still laughing all the way to the bank on that one...the Bank of JITA lol.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#135 - 2013-07-17 15:21:36 UTC
Ok, I can see the different suggestions working in regards to dps, but how do you manage the sentry drones? Sitting still isn't exactly the best thing to do in a level 4, at least in my experience.

I am always hearing about running level 4's in these ships, but the methods always seem contrary to what makes sense in a battle (i.e. not sitting in one spot).

Profit favors the prepared
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2013-07-17 16:28:55 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Ok, I can see the different suggestions working in regards to dps, but how do you manage the sentry drones? Sitting still isn't exactly the best thing to do in a level 4, at least in my experience.

I am always hearing about running level 4's in these ships, but the methods always seem contrary to what makes sense in a battle (i.e. not sitting in one spot).


If you're sitting still 80km+ away it really doesn't matter. Rats cant shoot that far and the ones that do don't hit hard enough at that range.

As for the TFI: it's a faction ship compared to a regular T1 bs and also I don't have perfect skills or setup on it. There is a dominix fit with 1k+ dps at 73km ish and it's not reduced on smaller targets like the TFI will be.

Art of Explosions
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#137 - 2013-07-17 17:13:21 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Ok, I can see the different suggestions working in regards to dps, but how do you manage the sentry drones? Sitting still isn't exactly the best thing to do in a level 4, at least in my experience.

I am always hearing about running level 4's in these ships, but the methods always seem contrary to what makes sense in a battle (i.e. not sitting in one spot).


1000 dps simply reduces the NPCs incoming dps as to make tank irrelevant half the time. I'd suspect that a 500 dps ship would receive 4x as much total damage dealt to it over the course of an L4 mission compared to a 1000 dps ship, due to the damage being dealt to you being an area of time vs number of high damage npcs left.

Also sometimes you get lucky with sentry aggro, and you get battleships on them, and battleships do a terrible job of hitting sentries. I did a blitz smash the supplier the other day, and I didn't actually break shields on an armor tanked domi.

Note I fight from the beacon, and I accept periods of my buffer being eaten into, knowing that I'm reducing the damage dealt to me very quickly - ie users of thinly tanked ships tend to exercise their buffers.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2013-07-17 17:58:42 UTC
Golem and that is it.

you can think of whatever you want.. in the end it's golem for now.
stoicfaux
#139 - 2013-07-17 23:51:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

The Fleet Phoon is awesome, I've experimented with it in Null and it compared favorable to the mach in isk generation but still can't match it overall (i won't be using a fleet phoon to tank a 10/10 like i do with my mach lol).

Before Odyssey there were some arguments about the Fleet Phoon vs the CNR and it was mostly an eft-warrioring argument that the CNR was useless against the fleet phoon. We know that'`s not totally true now, and I made the argument that a ship in EVE is sooo much more than it's paper DPS or even is "damage projection" ability. I put my isk were my space-mouth was and bought up a bunch of CNRs to sell post patch.

Can you speak more to your TFI experience? The few times I've used it in level 4s, I found myself waiting for things to get into my 80km missile and/or ~60km drone range. You're not having any problems with range? or drone tracking? any micromanagement issues?



Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Toria Nynys
Surly Dinos
#140 - 2013-07-18 01:23:35 UTC
Having built and test driven a bunch of BSes here's my 2c. Keep in mind I never fit more than ~150M worth of faction gear (these are pure t2 fits more often than not), and prefer the 'kill all BS' to a blitzing style. I cherrypick salvage/loot mercenaries, sansha and bloods. Having BS5 for Amarr, Caldari and only BS4 for Minmatar & Gallente does color my outlook a bit. I did not switch clones for gun-specific damage implants, though I did have some cheapie cruise missile 3% RoF and DPS ones in my skull for the missile boats. That said, here are my favorites:

1. Rattlesnake. I like this one the best. The missile spam keeps aggro off drones, and the tank means my ship will still be there if I nod off in a mission. It's inexpensive (got a rigged one for 500m), easy to fit, and easy to fly. Fits my style very well even though I'm getting sub-1k DPS out of it.

2. Paladin. I prefer this to a Nightmare. Way more. When using only t2 the Paladin has a better tank, and just feels like it kills faster. There are many missions I take the Paly over the Rattlesnake, it just melts things faster and further. The 48km tractor range means on the fly looting.

3. CNR. Flew this for years, but meh. Just doesn't do it for me any more. It's not that awesome with just t2, IMO. Requires being made into a loot pinata to truly shine. I did not have a Golem to test drive, but I suspect it's not that different.

4. TFI. This feels like a better bang for the buck than the Rattlesnake with mostly T2 fit, but only having Minmatar BS IV cut into my DPS (missile variety fit) quite a bit. The tank was a quite scary with only t2 and inability to move, but for the price it's very sexy.

Now, I overlooked the Armageddon Navy Issue but will definitely be giving it a spin. I suspect it may underperform the Paladin in the situations where dishing out EM/Therm damage is called for, but I could be pleasantly surprised. Being 1/3 the price and not requiring Marauders V doesn't hurt.

Honorable mentions:

Apocalypse. Incredibly hard to fit and without the range of the Dominix, it gains 5 unbonused missile launchers (compared to Rattler's 4) at the expense of tank. Range and tank are also lackluster compared to a Domi, but for missions like Extravaganzas it's not a terrible choice for those lacking Gallente BS V.

Dominix. For the price this can't be beat. Teleporting sniping potato is fantastic for the newer mission runner doing things solo.