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Is there a point? (wh mining is now just throwing away isk)

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Ronce
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#1 - 2013-07-17 01:23:44 UTC
For a single pilot eve player wanting to wh mine, is there a point? I seriously feel like I would be more satisfied sitting in jita holding my ankles. At least there, someone MIGHT refuse.

Does CCP really honestly want to drive people out of WH's? Do they just not give a flying shot at intercourse with a rolling doughnut? WHO THOUGHT THIS **** THROUGH!?

I'd rather sit bouncing off a warpgate in a titan, because there's a chance I could get away!

Good GOD CCP. WHY?! What is the motivation? I'm not screaming for the sake of being a jerk, I really really honestly want to know why you would turn miners into even more of a f'n porkchop and THEN give a pack of rabid hungry dogs; directions, fuel, and a f'n warp in point with NO EFFORT AT ALL.


Scenario goes like this: I'm in a pos, and hop into a mining ship (venture, whatever). Oops, someone's already cloaked at the grav site.


Scenario two goes like this: Scout ship with disruptor scan's into system and sees mining ship on scan, warps directly to grav site, locks you down, and you go boom.

Scenario three: You say eff it, hop in a warship and decide to go commit cannibalism by eating your own kind (I enjoy killing my own kind now and then.) Nobody is out mining because it is certain death to anyone with half a brain cell (that probably matches the idiot that thought grav sites as insta warps was a good idea).

Reality, I can't mine. I can't kill miners, W T F???????

Give WH's instant local intel, just like null. Or roll this back and say "my bad, we dumb"
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#2 - 2013-07-17 01:41:45 UTC
Ronce wrote:

Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.


I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space.

(If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.)
Ronce
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#3 - 2013-07-17 01:47:29 UTC
Tisisan wrote:
Ronce wrote:

Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.


I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space.

(If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.)

Stupidy? Nope. sorry try again.

Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan.

Desire for effort free isk? No, I work for my isk just like everyone else. I've put in my time in null, pirated in low, carebear'd in high.


If the risk is the same, why should there be any difference. Why is it wonderful? Effort free kills cause they can't see you?

In null: I jump into a system and see miners on scan, I warp to belts.

In wh's: I see miners on scan, I warp to belts.

Only difference? No intel channels, and no local flash.

Why bother with the difference if there is barely any distinction?



Troll on brother ! I'm right there with ya!
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#4 - 2013-07-17 01:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisisan
Ronce wrote:
Tisisan wrote:
Ronce wrote:

Give WH's instant local intel, just like null.


I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space.

(If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.)

Stupidy? Nope. sorry try again.

Lazy? I'm doing 3 jobs while mining. Mining, Watching for new spans, and spamming d-scan.

Desire for effort free isk? No, I work for my isk just like everyone else. I've put in my time in null, pirated in low, carebear'd in high.


If the risk is the same, why should there be any difference. Why is it wonderful? Effort free kills cause they can't see you?

In null: I jump into a system and see miners on scan, I warp to belts.

In wh's: I see miners on scan, I warp to belts.

Only difference? No intel channels, and no local flash.

Why bother with the difference if there is barely any distinction?



You clearly implied that is you are mining with open holes. That is stupid. No other way around it.

(edit: You also implied you are mining at the warpin. That is stupid. You implied you don't have probes out. That is stupid. You can't align a venture, a ship with 2 free warp core stabs, a built in long lock time, and a not insignificant speed, in the time it takes a cov ops to decloak, sit out its delay, then target and point you... and yet you want us to believe you are not afk. That is stupid.)


You want wormhole ore without wormhole risk and wormhole effort. That is lazy.

The lack of local IS the difference. (See point above regarding "stupid.")

Go back to high sec.
vizax vonkoffer
Space Pirates Under Duress
#5 - 2013-07-17 01:59:16 UTC
Tisisan wrote:

I'm sorry but No, your stupidity, laziness, and desire for effort free isk does not justify removing the single most wonderful thing there is about wormhole space.

(If you are mining with opened holes, without probes out (or at very least watching for a new sig to pop up, though there seems to be a slight delay on that so probes are better), you deserve to get podded over and over and over again, till you move back to high sec.)


I agree with Ronce, same corp or not. If the WH is open, fine I understand the risk involved, but I completely agree with the fact that having free-grab warps to the grav site is complete crap. *Everything else* in the WH requires effort to find, why make this different.

HS/LS/NS belts have warp locations, why? Because its *known space*. In the unknown space of the unknown wormhole with unknown sites, why in the world would you grant a known site?!
Ronce
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#6 - 2013-07-17 02:00:08 UTC
Ya know what I find amusing?

You've assumed I've been mining, and that I'm complaining about no free isk.


I have not mined since the patch. I have not lost any ships personally to the patch changes. I'm livid because a newbie (rare, few and far between) lost my mining ship due to the patch changes. The ship isn't a big deal, I make enough to replace that no problem.

The problem is the injustice of a system that from a miners perspective is a direct assault on their ability to generate isk. If you look at the changes to mechanics, you should note from a non-biased perspective that wh mining has NEVER been safe. I lose barges quite often even while mashing d-scan for probes.

It just got a heap ton easier for any idiot with a blaster to take advantage of learning individuals, by making it lamentably easiy for a moron to get kills with less than manageable notification. (aka, probes/local spike) Yes, in a wh it's probes only.

What I am getting at, is that null mining is now easier than wh mining.
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#7 - 2013-07-17 02:06:10 UTC
vizax vonkoffer wrote:

I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.


Ronce:

Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37
Elite-Force 2010/09/05 06:56 2011/10/20 13:07
Dark Ashes 2007/04/01 01:18 2008/03/27 02:42
SolidLine Industry 2006/08/21 06:17 2007/04/01 01:17


vizax vonkoffer:

Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2013/01/16 17:48
Elite-Force 2010/05/28 02:00 2012/02/18 08:30
Dark Ashes 2007/04/01 01:18 2008/03/24 17:25
SolidLine Industry 2006/08/13 14:17 2007/04/01 01:17



Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that.

Go back to high sec.
vizax vonkoffer
Space Pirates Under Duress
#8 - 2013-07-17 02:08:20 UTC
Tisisan wrote:
vizax vonkoffer wrote:

I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.


Ronce:

Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37
Elite-Force 2010/09/05 06:56 2011/10/20 13:07
Dark Ashes 2007/04/01 01:18 2008/03/27 02:42
SolidLine Industry 2006/08/21 06:17 2007/04/01 01:17


vizax vonkoffer:

Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2013/01/16 17:48
Elite-Force 2010/05/28 02:00 2012/02/18 08:30
Dark Ashes 2007/04/01 01:18 2008/03/24 17:25
SolidLine Industry 2006/08/13 14:17 2007/04/01 01:17



Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that.

Go back to high sec.




Imagine that, friends who like to play together. its amazing!

Stop being a jerk about someone's legitimate opinion, just because you don't like it.
Ronce
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#9 - 2013-07-17 02:08:45 UTC
Tisisan wrote:
vizax vonkoffer wrote:

I agree with Ronce, same corp or not.


Ronce:

Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2012/10/15 13:37
Elite-Force 2010/09/05 06:56 2011/10/20 13:07
Dark Ashes 2007/04/01 01:18 2008/03/27 02:42
SolidLine Industry 2006/08/21 06:17 2007/04/01 01:17


vizax vonkoffer:

Kleinrock Heavy Industries 2013/01/16 17:48
Elite-Force 2010/05/28 02:00 2012/02/18 08:30
Dark Ashes 2007/04/01 01:18 2008/03/24 17:25
SolidLine Industry 2006/08/13 14:17 2007/04/01 01:17



Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that.

Go back to high sec.




are your alts separate people too? *glazed over look* Go back to wow!
vizax vonkoffer
Space Pirates Under Duress
#10 - 2013-07-17 02:11:51 UTC  |  Edited by: vizax vonkoffer
Tisisan wrote:


Bet most of my alts would agree with me too... funny that.

Go back to high sec.




Tisisan

CURRENT CORPORATION
Hard Knocks Inc. [HRDKX] from 2011.10.24 23:32 to this day
PREVIOUS CORPORATION(S)
...
Federal Navy Academy [FNA] from 2007.05.26 16:27 to 2007.05.27 06:31.

Hey, look, I was in Federal Navy Academy [FNA] too. Are you my lost alt? Must be, since we were in the same corp.
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#11 - 2013-07-17 02:13:13 UTC
vizax vonkoffer wrote:

Stop being a jerk about someone's legitimate opinion, just because you don't like it.


I am stating my opinions. Wait, what's that? Only you can do that?

Go back to high sec.
Ronce
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#12 - 2013-07-17 02:16:49 UTC
OK, in an effort to turn this away from just a flaming ball of troll spit...

Look. I'm venturing a point that what happened to miners in wh's...

is equally repulsive as local channel being populated automatically in wh's...

WITH THE DIFFERENCE

that miners really did take one up the ass.


I would be right there with you complaining about local in a wh being like null, if it happened.

However, the point remains, that it DID happen to miners in wh's, with just a different channel of the mechanics.


You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"
Ronce
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#13 - 2013-07-17 02:18:20 UTC
Ronce wrote:


You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"



I'm now going to refer to wh's as "Omni-sec"
vizax vonkoffer
Space Pirates Under Duress
#14 - 2013-07-17 02:21:45 UTC
Ronce wrote:

I'm now going to refer to wh's as "Omni-sec"


WH = OS

OS... hmmm, maybe the problem is that this "OS" is turning out kinda like Windows Vista. Nice try, but didn't think it through all the way?
Craggus
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-07-17 02:21:56 UTC
Can we just change grav sites to only be able to be scanned down by mining ships? Also, when you start pve stuff, can the wh connections automatically close? While we are at it, can d-scan spam itself and if anything new pops up, your ship auto-warps?

I'm just kidding. I like the tears too much.
Ronce
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#16 - 2013-07-17 02:24:13 UTC
Wait, tears? Where?


I'm bitching, not crying. Crying implies loss. Bitching = pissed at the shift in mechanics
T0SHI KONI
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-07-17 02:25:39 UTC
The real question should be why would you mine in WH in the first place when it is one on the least lucrative parts of the hole. I live in a C1 and make more shooting red crosses and mining gas than punching ark.
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#18 - 2013-07-17 02:25:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tisisan
Ronce wrote:
OK, in an effort to turn this away from just a flaming ball of troll spit...

Look. I'm venturing a point that what happened to miners in wh's...

is equally repulsive as local channel being populated automatically in wh's...

WITH THE DIFFERENCE

that miners really did take one up the ass.


I would be right there with you complaining about local in a wh being like null, if it happened.

However, the point remains, that it DID happen to miners in wh's, with just a different channel of the mechanics.


You respond with "go back to HS" and I say "why bother, ccp is turning wh's into highsec, lowsec, nullsec anyways"



Ok. Can anyone else make out what he's saying here? He agrees with me. But he's making a point. Miners got ******. He would agree with me if wormholes turned into null. But it already happened.

Wut? I'm lost.

Look. Miners got a disadvantage from the last patch, people don't have to scan down sites any more. Yup. They also got an advantage. New sigs pop up automatically. Your solution to all of this is to give wormholes instant local. So it's like null sec. But you don't want it to be...

God, I'm lost again.

But you don't mine and don't lose ships mining, but you always dscan/check for sigs.. wut? Lost again...

I have a headache.

I am going to find alcohol.

You and your 'friend' who also really likes typing random phrases and words in all caps and using "..." should just, you guessed it, go back to high sec.

I hear they have local there.
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#19 - 2013-07-17 02:29:19 UTC
T0SHI KONI wrote:
The real question should be why would you mine in WH in the first place when it is one on the least lucrative parts of the hole. I live in a C1 and make more shooting red crosses and mining gas than punching ark.


Damn, I had meant to add that to my list of stupid I put in the earlier post, but it got lost in the crowd :(
Ronce
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#20 - 2013-07-17 02:30:35 UTC

alright.

For clarification: I said I wasn't mining since the patch.

I said I'd ***** with you if wh's got local population instantly.

The point I was trying to make was this:

If you are going to screw over one aspect of the game, punish everyone equally.

New sigs popping up instantly is ok, but I've never seen one pop instantly.

I've got scotch! We can troll at each other over a drink.

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