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Mining - Needs More Player Skill and Less AFKing
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#21 - 2013-07-16 16:02:54 UTC
Onquaber wrote:
There should be 2 options. Leave the afk mining and add a new mechanic where you need to actually play the game with maybe a new ship/module.

This.

It's the only way this idea will see the light of day.

There is a place for "low activity" mining, and a place for a more involved form of mining.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-07-16 16:04:53 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Are any of the people saying mining should be more active actually miners? Or is this a case of "I do not like the way you play a game, therefore the game should be changed"?


Can't speak for others but personally I own 3 Macks and an Orca, think that classifies me as a miner.
Dorrann
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-07-16 16:13:57 UTC
Personally, I dont mine, I can, but I dont. Because it is dull, to be profitable you have to use Strips, with long cycles and sod all to do in between changing roids. Its Dull. CCP made it Dull.
If PVP were as dull as mining is but turned the same steady profit we'd be having the same discussion aimed at a different activity.

Scrambling for Loot Spew isnt an improvement. Its just another reason to not train mining skills imo.

The ONLY suggestion i've seen so far that isnt idiotic and either from a troll or a complete moron is the Adjusting the Beam idea that bonuses the output. Have this happening every 30-45 seconds, with a reasonable bonus, now THAT would be interesting and profitable. Busy enough to fight the tedium, but not so distracting that you cant take the time to monitor local/d-scan/Help chat/whatever.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#24 - 2013-07-16 16:32:19 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Are any of the people saying mining should be more active actually miners? Or is this a case of "I do not like the way you play a game, therefore the game should be changed"?

Had you read my posts above, you'd have seen that I have been a miner. Past-tense. I stopped mining 'cause it was mind-killing boring. If some changes were made, I might reconsider.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#25 - 2013-07-16 16:35:55 UTC
I approve of EVE becoming more like a horrible dystopian space version of Puzzle Pirates.

... no, I'm not even trolling. More mini-games!
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#26 - 2013-07-16 16:37:58 UTC
Andrea Okazon wrote:
I approve of EVE becoming more like a horrible dystopian space version of Puzzle Pirates.

... no, I'm not even trolling. More mini-games!

Where the price of failure is seeing your space-stuffs blown up and scattered into the void?
I'm in!

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#27 - 2013-07-16 16:50:44 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Are any of the people saying mining should be more active actually miners? Or is this a case of "I do not like the way you play a game, therefore the game should be changed"?


I just phoned the verb police over the use of to play in connection to AFK mining.
Spurty
#28 - 2013-07-16 16:58:01 UTC
Make the asteroids kick out kill mails based on what was harvested.

Make them drop random loots in the middle.

Change mining barges so they are 1000% more hull and less armor / shields (armor and shields are for ships that go into harms way).

Create mods that affect the ore bay volume

Gosh, I can think of 10 ideas that are already possible in game with about 2 lines of code being changed (as I rush through the digests of EVE-O at lunch).

Imagine what a clever EVE pod pilot with time and a license to create game play could do!

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#29 - 2013-07-16 17:35:54 UTC
I have a miner.

While not technically AFK while I'm playing him, I do relegate him to another monitor while I'm doing stuff that is actually fun with one of my other characters. And for amount of income I get from him that's exactly how it should be.

He can make 4.5m to 8.5m per load which takes a long time in a Mack.

No one will ever sit over their miner and focus solely on that gameplay for such a pathetic amount of ISKies. No matter how you try to make it 'fun'. Ever.

Mr Epeen Cool
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-07-16 18:27:23 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


No one will ever sit over their miner and focus solely on that gameplay for such a pathetic amount of ISKies. No matter how you try to make it 'fun'. Ever.

Mr Epeen Cool


You are right, but making it more active (and thus more fun) you would increase the isk per hour significantly. It's not like you are mining isk from asteroids, you are mining ore that needs to be sold on the dynamic market. If the market wasn't so diluted by afk miners and people running 100 accounts using botting software you'd be making more than 8mil a haul. Mining will never be financially worth doing as long as everybody and their grandmother mines afk/quasi afk and one person controls an entire army of botted miners.
Arcelian
0nus
#31 - 2013-07-16 18:38:34 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:


No one will ever sit over their miner and focus solely on that gameplay for such a pathetic amount of ISKies. No matter how you try to make it 'fun'. Ever.

Mr Epeen Cool


You are right, but making it more active (and thus more fun) you would increase the isk per hour significantly. It's not like you are mining isk from asteroids, you are mining ore that needs to be sold on the dynamic market. If the market wasn't so diluted by afk miners and people running 100 accounts using botting software you'd be making more than 8mil a haul. Mining will never be financially worth doing as long as everybody and their grandmother mines afk/quasi afk and one person controls an entire army of botted miners.


Indeed. I long for the day of interactive mining.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#32 - 2013-07-16 18:58:43 UTC
Sure and lets fix afk cloakers also while were at it. Big smile
Null Slinger
College of Applied Knowledge
#33 - 2013-07-16 19:14:51 UTC
Personally, I'm fine with this change as long as PVPers get a captcha dialog everytime they fire their weapons - seems fair :)
Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#34 - 2013-07-16 19:21:32 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Maximillian German wrote:
While I am not a fan of the spew, I do think that a gameplay change to mining could make it more fun and remove the afk aspect from it. However, it takes quite a while to mine a decent profit's worth of ore in high sec which kinda lends itself to afk mining. Therefore: posting in a stealth nerf highsec thread.


This isn't a nerf highsec thread quite the opposite, this is a buff high-sec thread for 99% of players. With all the afk miners gone and all the bot miner armies gone there will be more profit left for the real miners. A change like this may even require a secondary change to the yeilds of mining modules, more yield per cycle to prevent the mineral market from skyrocketing.

Maximillian how many times have you experienced loot spew? I didn't like it first but it grew on me as I got good at it. I went from getting <30% of containers to getting >70% of containers (and 100% of the good containers by using a cargo scanner)



A bit of clarification. If miners were forced to be active and ore supplies/prices were left the same, then mining in highsec would not be worth the time. Why would I want to spend my 'active' time mining when I could doing something more fun and more profitable? Thus, the only people who would spend their 'active' time mining would be those who can mine valuable asteroids that do not exist in highsec. Therefore: posting in a stealth nerf highsec thread, even if it wasn't intended ;)
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#35 - 2013-07-16 19:32:10 UTC
Spew mechanics were already proven to be an atrocious concept back when Elite did it. I prefer a more tactical approach.
(read my goddamn signature)

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#36 - 2013-07-16 19:33:42 UTC
It would be really dumb (and easy for it to happen) if they fell victim to

1) the New Coke example.

Using taste tests, the Coca Cola company found more people enjoyed Pepsi so they came up with a new formula that tasted like Pepsi. That backfired because, well the taste people sought of drinking full glasses of coke wasn't always the same as in the taste test environment.

In the end the "debacle" ended up being a lot of free publicity about the "Classic" nature of coke, which they brought back as their main stay, while also keeping "new coke" around which sold well for a while and actually did draw some incremental fans.

i.e. what people enjoy more in a 20 minute test might not be what people enjoy for hours a day afterwork ... and they might find those hours mining ( while half watching tv with their wife and visiting a bit) a far more enjoyable part of their game play than they'd own up to in a customer survey.

--

2) asking the wrong people what they liked better.

They test a new mining system on people like me. I tell them I like the new system FAR FAR more than the old system, (and we're assuming here that I'm being honest)

after the change comes out.... guess what ? even though it was kind of fun, and a lot better than it was... I still don't want to mine at all... I've got other interesting things I'd rather do.

Changing the system with people in mine who don't really want to mine -- the notion of collecting ore isn't much of a pull whether the process is challenging or not.-- is really really dumb if it means encompassing game play elements that reduce the pleasure of people who now like to log on with a few accounts an put on the "foreman" hat for a few pleasurable low stress hours after work.

.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#37 - 2013-07-16 21:29:20 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Somebody mentioned this in another post briefly and I thought it was legitimately a great idea, it's an idea that would end afk mining, make the activity not entirely brainless, and add a bit of strategy and player skill to the mix. By now I am sure most people have done a new data or relic site by now and have experienced Lootkakke. Well we need Roidkakke!

When a miner or strip miner ends it cycle instead of having the ore magically teleport to your cargo hold, 3 or 4 giant chunks of ore go floating off into space in different directions. It should be possible with proper attentiveness, ship positioning, and ship fitting to get all the floating ore before it floats off into the abyss. It should also be somewhat difficult to get all the floating ore per cycle, requiring near perfect positioning, most times most people should lose one or two floating ores.

Since most people will not get all the ore every cycle, it will allow those talented miners who do to earn better income. ISBoxer fleets of 100 miners will no longer be feasible. People will need to decide if they want to play EVE online or watch TV/do homework, instead of doing both simultaneously. And best of all legitimate miners that don't run 100 accounts can actually turn a profit from mining.


I think a combination of this and normal mining would be a perfect combination. Lower (very very slightly) the overall yield if your afk, and have random rocks fly off of the asteroid from time to time, so that an attentive miner can earn that little bit more. It would be nice if mining could have an income that was competitive with running level 4s.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#38 - 2013-07-16 22:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
So basicly kill mining right? You do realise there are a ton of players out there that don't have the time in their busy lives to do the majority of the time-intensive things in EvE right? Semi-AFK mining is there for a reason, a niche activity that allows people to passively play EvE whilst similtanously dealing with their kids / portfolio / job / wife / other. Sure, people love to moan about those damn afk miners, but lets face it, the trade-off is an extreme vunerability. They can be ganked at leasure!

Your idea boils down to, yet again, attempting to force your opinion of how the game should be played onto those that play it for completely different reasons.

EvE is great for exactly the reason that it allows people from all walks of life to play it for a whole host of different reasons.

If you don't like how a particular person likes to spend his time (and cash!) playing EvE, then i suggest you express it in the time honored EvE-sandbox method. Explode them! Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#39 - 2013-07-16 23:21:22 UTC
Before complaining about "AFK mining" you should actually go and do some mining yourself.

Mechanics such as the loot spew do not add interest to an activity, they only add tedium.

And as always if you don't like mining, don't do it.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2013-07-16 23:28:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Xen Solarus wrote:
If you don't like how a particular person likes to spend his time (and cash!) playing EvE, then i suggest you express it in the time honored EvE-sandbox method. Explode them! Cool

Nerf ganking. If it's still possible to gank people in highsec, it needs to be nerfed more.

This is not a way people should be able to spend their time in EVE ONLINE, a harsh and cold game.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?