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Please don't get mad if ship skins are on the NeX store

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Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#161 - 2011-11-09 18:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
As long as the skins are reasonably priced, and have a decent variety for selection, then I'm all for it.

And I'd so totally pay AUR to fly this, tooTwisted

E: Typing-fail.

Ni.
Solhild
Doomheim
#162 - 2011-11-09 18:59:53 UTC
This thread is beginning to impress me. Are we still in GD?
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#163 - 2011-11-09 19:48:20 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Richard Aiel wrote:
Yes, Ive watched that downward slide, personally, on the STO forums. It was "vanity only" at first, then they started introducing races you didnt have access to in game, then ships that had special abilities, then special xp enhancers etc etc etc.

It happens in every game with a microtransaction store. As soon as the developers/publishers realize that there are people out there willing to pay a bunch of rl money to win a computer game they become more than happy to accommodate.



you ask why we have an issue with NeX?

"If you fail to learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it"

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2011-11-09 20:08:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


Jacob cirth wrote:
Some arguments may be "reasonable", but the most reasonable thing to do of all would be to introduce ship skins outside of the NeX store. BPOs, drop down menus, and other normal ways to implement basic features.


And this is where the arguments against the NeX fall short, including (respectfully) Jade's.

A few facts, read closely:

ArrowThe Nex store is an intergal link between DUST industry and economy and EVE industry and economy. It is not going away. In fact, it is inevitable that it will expand.

ArrowRemember carefully why the Ishukone Scorpion was not offered through the NeX.

Players pointed out that it circumvented the player driven industrial base too much.

CCP replied "We know, this is just a test of the system as it is until we can properly implement either BPC transactions via the NeX or accept tangibles like ships, PI goods, whatever player produced items as part of the purchse price. However, since you object to this test we will cancel it until such time as we can implement the full system".

This effectively ends all arguments based on the NeX store undermining the player based industry in EVE. The only arguable points now are to what degree player industry will be involved, and will clothing items also be converted to this system (and yes, they should be).

We have already covered arguments based on "I shouldn't have to pay more than my subscription for this content", since you in fact do not. You can get your Aurum from ISK purchased PLEX, which helps the guy out thats trying to sell his cash bought PLEX for ISK, which helps out CCP by stimulating their PLEX for cash market.

So what do we have left to argue about?

Not much, other than the continual stream of people who don't understand the concept at all... but are highly upset about it. Smile


Too much assumption in your response, too much of this is a bad idea, and none of it refutes NeX being a bad idea. Double charging us for content is never ok.
Xorth Adimus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#165 - 2011-11-09 20:10:41 UTC
Ship + Aur = Vanity ship to kill and make someone lose (cry) more over = win for CCP = win for pilots

There is no rage here..
Raid'En
#166 - 2011-11-09 20:12:25 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Ships skins may be coming this winter, if the recent hints are anything to go by. The possibility that they'll be sold on the NeX store is very high.
.

they said on the 2nd video that they had finished HALF the ships on the new render needed to apply ships skins. and i don't see them finishing the other half in a few days.
so no, they won't come for winter. maybe next epansion however.
and yeah good chance it will be on new store... for bad or good.
Skorpynekomimi
#167 - 2011-11-09 20:15:31 UTC
**** vanity. If I can have shark jaws on all the hurricane hulls I want forever, then I'll happily scrape and save for it.

Economic PVP
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#168 - 2011-11-09 20:22:18 UTC
Quote:
Too much assumption in your response, too much of this is a bad idea, and none of it refutes NeX being a bad idea. Double charging us for content is never ok.


None of this is an assumption. Verify it yourself by watching the interviews during the last alliance tournament, Dev Blogs concerning the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, and the information released about the DUST economy and it's relationship with EVE.

None of this is a bad idea. It's just a different way to do what we already do, simply in a different interface that will also work with DUST.

All if it refutes the idea that the NeX is a bad idea.

That would be true, if you were being double charged. However since this is new content that you can (and most will) buy with ISK, just as you do with the new ships being introduced to the game, you are not being double charged. You simply have to option to pay for these items with cash... exactly as you have that option now... via a more direct interface.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2011-11-09 20:27:12 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Too much assumption in your response, too much of this is a bad idea, and none of it refutes NeX being a bad idea. Double charging us for content is never ok.


None of this is an assumption. Verify it yourself by watching the interviews during the last alliance tournament, Dev Blogs concerning the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, and the information released about the DUST economy and it's relationship with EVE.

None of this is a bad idea. It's just a different way to do what we already do, simply in a different interface that will also work with DUST.

All if it refutes the idea that the NeX is a bad idea.

That would be true, if you were being double charged. However since this is new content that you can (and most will) buy with ISK, just as you do with the new ships being introduced to the game, you are not being double charged. You simply have to option to pay for these items with cash... exactly as you have that option now... via a more direct interface.


You're not very bright are you? NeX = aurum = plex = $$. Regardless of whether or not I pay ISK for it is irrelevant due to the fact it took real money to generate.

I already pay $15/month, why should I pay more? Time to face the fact that this is a failed experiment, and it deserved to fail.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#170 - 2011-11-09 20:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Jacob cirth wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Too much assumption in your response, too much of this is a bad idea, and none of it refutes NeX being a bad idea. Double charging us for content is never ok.


None of this is an assumption. Verify it yourself by watching the interviews during the last alliance tournament, Dev Blogs concerning the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, and the information released about the DUST economy and it's relationship with EVE.

None of this is a bad idea. It's just a different way to do what we already do, simply in a different interface that will also work with DUST.

All if it refutes the idea that the NeX is a bad idea.

That would be true, if you were being double charged. However since this is new content that you can (and most will) buy with ISK, just as you do with the new ships being introduced to the game, you are not being double charged. You simply have to option to pay for these items with cash... exactly as you have that option now... via a more direct interface.


You're not very bright are you? NeX = aurum = plex = $$. Regardless of whether or not I pay ISK for it is irrelevant due to the fact it took real money to generate.

I already pay $15/month, why should I pay more? Time to face the fact that this is a failed experiment, and it deserved to fail.


You don't pay the cash. The person that purchased the PLEX did. You are simply giving that person what he wants, namely your ISK.

To put it in your terms:

NeX = aurum = plex = ISK.

It's time to face the fact that NeX items will not cost you a penny over your subscription unless you wish them to, assuming you want to purchase those items off of the NeX at all. You could also simply wait until the item becomes available on the main market or the contract system.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#171 - 2011-11-09 20:36:43 UTC
Ranger would be correct if we werent paying a sub, methinks the NeX store was the first salvo towards making the game free to play, as as Hilmar has hinted at, the sub payment plan isnt feasible in the long run.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#172 - 2011-11-09 20:37:53 UTC
Let me quote myself in case you don't get the whole PLEX cycle.

Quote:

ArrowThe person that buys the PLEX with cash gets exactly what they want for their money. They get ISK.

ArrowThe person that buys the vanity item with and ISK purchased PLEX gets exactly what they want. The vanity item in question without spending their own cash to aquire it.

ArrowCCP gets exactly what they want. The get the income from the original PLEX purchase..

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2011-11-09 20:38:17 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Too much assumption in your response, too much of this is a bad idea, and none of it refutes NeX being a bad idea. Double charging us for content is never ok.


None of this is an assumption. Verify it yourself by watching the interviews during the last alliance tournament, Dev Blogs concerning the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, and the information released about the DUST economy and it's relationship with EVE.

None of this is a bad idea. It's just a different way to do what we already do, simply in a different interface that will also work with DUST.

All if it refutes the idea that the NeX is a bad idea.

That would be true, if you were being double charged. However since this is new content that you can (and most will) buy with ISK, just as you do with the new ships being introduced to the game, you are not being double charged. You simply have to option to pay for these items with cash... exactly as you have that option now... via a more direct interface.


You're not very bright are you? NeX = aurum = plex = $$. Regardless of whether or not I pay ISK for it is irrelevant due to the fact it took real money to generate.

I already pay $15/month, why should I pay more? Time to face the fact that this is a failed experiment, and it deserved to fail.


You don't pay the cash. The person that purchased the PLEX did. You are simply giving that person what he wants, namely your ISK.

To put it in your terms:

NeX = aurum = plex = ISK.

It's time to face the fact that NeX items will not cost you a penny over your subscription unless you wish them to, assuming you want to purchase those items off of the NeX at all. You could also simply wait until the item becomes available on the main market or the contract system.


I could, but why should I? How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?

Simple answer, it's not, and no amount of logical gymnastics on your part will fix it.
Hallorin
Doomheim
#174 - 2011-11-09 20:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Hallorin
Jacob cirth wrote:


I already pay $15/month, why should I pay more? Time to face the fact that this is a failed experiment, and it deserved to fail.


This is more of the same Aur/Nex is AUTOMATICALLY bad crap that gets bandied about here too much.

Now don't misunderstand me here. I am not arguing that NeX is great or that CCP will make good on what I am about to suggest but I'll try to prove that Aur/NeX is not automatically bad and that it doesn't NECESSARILY amount to double charging.


Image, just for example, if some outside company or a modder created an add-on for EVE that contained, I don't know, some vanity items. Imagine CCP wasn't making these but a lot of players wanted them and they did not affect gameplay except in some vanity way.

Now imagine CCP said, sure we don't care, it's ok, not against the EULA - go ahead.

If outside company or modder charged for this service, nobody would say CCP was double charging them - because it would be money going to someone else entirely.

Now imagine if instead, CCP, who was busy pumping out new ships, engine trails, shots that miss, hybrid balancing, UI upgrades, Beautiful backrounds, etc said:

"Hey, why don't we create a new department that we can't really afford to pay, and they can create content that players like but these guys will sell it via MT. They will exist solely to provide the content that the players can pay for and support that department by buying"

In other words, Just like the outside modder, No MT = No ability to provide that content. CCP is busy providing the all the content that subs can pay for but this new department functions just like the outside modder. It generates content based on the ADDITIONAL influx of money.

So CCP isn't double charging in such a case -- not if they are busy providing all the actual content that subs can buy, which, it appears they are doing right now.

If it was otherwise, CCP would not have just laid a bunch of people off.

I swear some of you would be happier if CCP just said "You are right, We can't afford to make ship skins without MT so no ship skins for you."



Edit: I feel I should reiterate. I'm not saying this IS what's happening. I don't know. Maybe CCP could just give us all of this. But it COULD be happening, and it most definitely could happen more in the future.

I mean seriously, DUST is in some distant way a 'part' of eve. should they just give that away too so they don't 'double-charge' you?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#175 - 2011-11-09 20:45:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Jacob cirth wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Too much assumption in your response, too much of this is a bad idea, and none of it refutes NeX being a bad idea. Double charging us for content is never ok.


None of this is an assumption. Verify it yourself by watching the interviews during the last alliance tournament, Dev Blogs concerning the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, and the information released about the DUST economy and it's relationship with EVE.

None of this is a bad idea. It's just a different way to do what we already do, simply in a different interface that will also work with DUST.

All if it refutes the idea that the NeX is a bad idea.

That would be true, if you were being double charged. However since this is new content that you can (and most will) buy with ISK, just as you do with the new ships being introduced to the game, you are not being double charged. You simply have to option to pay for these items with cash... exactly as you have that option now... via a more direct interface.


You're not very bright are you? NeX = aurum = plex = $$. Regardless of whether or not I pay ISK for it is irrelevant due to the fact it took real money to generate.

I already pay $15/month, why should I pay more? Time to face the fact that this is a failed experiment, and it deserved to fail.


You don't pay the cash. The person that purchased the PLEX did. You are simply giving that person what he wants, namely your ISK.

To put it in your terms:

NeX = aurum = plex = ISK.

It's time to face the fact that NeX items will not cost you a penny over your subscription unless you wish them to, assuming you want to purchase those items off of the NeX at all. You could also simply wait until the item becomes available on the main market or the contract system.


I could, but why should I? How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?

Simple answer, it's not, and no amount of logical gymnastics on your part will fix it.


So you won't be buying the new BC''s or their BPO's with ISK?

Nifty, I didn't realise that my subscription entitles me to having everything in the game without paying ISK for it. Smile

Edit: Sorry, it's after the fact by a few minutes.

It requires no logical gymnastics to understand that any content in the game that you can own (in game) is purchased either with ISK or with Cash currently. This is not changing, only the interface is... so that it can also form a common interface with DUST.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#176 - 2011-11-09 21:04:59 UTC
Richard Aiel wrote:
Ranger would be correct if we werent paying a sub, methinks the NeX store was the first salvo towards making the game free to play, as as Hilmar has hinted at, the sub payment plan isnt feasible in the long run.


This. Didnt Hilmar make referrence to this payment model not working over time? (This payment model being the $15 a moth one)

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2011-11-09 21:06:12 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


So you won't be buying the new BC''s or their BPO's with ISK?

Nifty, I didn't realise that my subscription entitles me to having everything in the game without paying ISK for it. Smile

It's ok, not everyone was blessed with good genes for reading comprehension and common sense. Ask a parent, guardian, or teacher to break it down for you.

Here's a hint: You dont need extra real life money to create a Tier 3 BC. You do with any NeX item.

Ranger 1 wrote:

It requires no logical gymnastics to understand

Followed by..

Ranger 1 wrote:
logical gymnastics


There is literally zero good reason that I, as a customer already paying for an account, should accept content in the NeX store.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#178 - 2011-11-09 21:07:29 UTC
My Little Pony ship skins would add to the dark atmosphere in the game. Knock it up a few notches to "deeply demented" even.
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2011-11-09 21:08:35 UTC
Hallorin wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


I already pay $15/month, why should I pay more? Time to face the fact that this is a failed experiment, and it deserved to fail.


This is more of the same Aur/Nex is AUTOMATICALLY bad crap that gets bandied about here too much.

Now don't misunderstand me here. I am not arguing that NeX is great or that CCP will make good on what I am about to suggest but I'll try to prove that Aur/NeX is not automatically bad and that it doesn't NECESSARILY amount to double charging.


Image, just for example, if some outside company or a modder created an add-on for EVE that contained, I don't know, some vanity items. Imagine CCP wasn't making these but a lot of players wanted them and they did not affect gameplay except in some vanity way.

Now imagine CCP said, sure we don't care, it's ok, not against the EULA - go ahead.

If outside company or modder charged for this service, nobody would say CCP was double charging them - because it would be money going to someone else entirely.

Now imagine if instead, CCP, who was busy pumping out new ships, engine trails, shots that miss, hybrid balancing, UI upgrades, Beautiful backrounds, etc said:

"Hey, why don't we create a new department that we can't really afford to pay, and they can create content that players like but these guys will sell it via MT. They will exist solely to provide the content that the players can pay for and support that department by buying"

In other words, Just like the outside modder, No MT = No ability to provide that content. CCP is busy providing the all the content that subs can pay for but this new department functions just like the outside modder. It generates content based on the ADDITIONAL influx of money.

So CCP isn't double charging in such a case -- not if they are busy providing all the actual content that subs can buy, which, it appears they are doing right now.

If it was otherwise, CCP would not have just laid a bunch of people off.

I swear some of you would be happier if CCP just said "You are right, We can't afford to make ship skins without MT so no ship skins for you."



Edit: I feel I should reiterate. I'm not saying this IS what's happening. I don't know. Maybe CCP could just give us all of this. But it COULD be happening, and it most definitely could happen more in the future.

I mean seriously, DUST is in some distant way a 'part' of eve. should they just give that away too so they don't 'double-charge' you?

Correct, they shouldn't charge us twice for content we've already paid for. I don't care if it's some sub department "they can't really pay for". That's their poor business decision, but in no way entitles them to double charge me. End of story.
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2011-11-09 21:09:27 UTC
Richard Hammond II wrote:
Richard Aiel wrote:
Ranger would be correct if we werent paying a sub, methinks the NeX store was the first salvo towards making the game free to play, as as Hilmar has hinted at, the sub payment plan isnt feasible in the long run.


This. Didnt Hilmar make referrence to this payment model not working over time? (This payment model being the $15 a moth one)


Because Hilmar hasn't been wrong beforeRoll