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Market Discussions

 
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Financial Fraud, Cartels, Monopoly, API's and you.

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Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#241 - 2013-07-14 19:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhodopsin Pserad
arabella blood wrote:
OP is so afraid of unfair advantage...can someone tell him about T2 BPOs??? Or is that too risky?

The MD is kind of "dull" most of the time, maybe we can work to change it...what fun threads can we have? Anyone?


I know about the T2 BPOs - that's not really the same as - to my understanding - they were distributed by lottery (which I think is a lousy way to do things, but not quite the same at all as it only permits cornering one item in the market and still functions, for the most part, as an in game componant).

Regardless, it's become clear to me that this game probably isn't for me as there's a big difference for me between telling people, "here, go out in low sec and become a pirate!," or "we'll let to scam in local chat as much as you want," and stating, "here, extort this relatively personal (for an MMO) information out of everyone and we'll stream it through your third party software so you can assemble a database of peoples' transaction info and ensure they're buying PLEX for their money rather than making it through fair trade."

The whole thing lends a lot more credence to the "this is a sociological/economic experiment simulation" rather than a "solely for profit" company claim in my view. But they already told me there's a bit more to it with their literary and religious references in their symbols and naming techniques.

For example, I identify something in the game which is clearly a scam, mass distribution of API financial info, and everyone on the forums tries to lie to you that it's an inconceivably paranoid thing to say.

Like when you say it's odd that the Special Agent in charge of Counterterrorism who investigated the U.S.S. Cole bombing was fired from the FBI a month before 9/11 and ended up dead there on 9/11.

Anyway, I'm am distrusting of game mechanics which induce people to gang up on others to force conformity to privacy release. It's just not conducive to my style of play or my ethos. I am less trusting when a fully rational objection like "well, this info could be assembled and data mined" gets objections that it is impossible and provides no advantage to those who do it, which is fundamentally untrue. Eve's participants' virtual unanimous embrace of the "tin-foil hat" straw man either indicates to me that you guys are just too group-think oriented for myself in general, or are actively and knowingly employing nonsense propaganda in order to detract from a fully rational objection to the streaming of "private" data from players into third party programs.

Too much of a real life "learn to break down your inferiors through persistent pressure" simulation for me.

I think this game will end up being too "learn how to be Jimmy Hoffa and shoot RFK" for me...

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#242 - 2013-07-15 17:25:15 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
... before jumping into Rancher from high sec.


I have no idea what "Rancher" means... is that a corp or soverignty?

They meant Rancer. You'll have to work hard to find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. Or watch local when you jump to Jita on the weekend. If you can get in on the weekend, so I guess that still counts as working hard.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Sinq_Laison/Rancer#kills24

If it weren't Eve, I'd say they meant Jolly Rancher.

Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:

... but to bother stalking them down...


Some agents in the game offer locator services. Generally, a level 1 agent will only be able to find someone if they are in the same constellation. A level 4 agent will be able to tell you where they are, or last logged off in the game.

To see which agents are locator agents, pick "Yes" in the "locator" drop down at Eve-Agents.
http://eve-agents.com/

If you wardec folks, or get wardecked much, then you will want to learn where your local locator agents are, and use them to find where your war targets hang out. And when they log in, where in New Eden they are. To use the locator agent, start a conversation with the agent and instead of clicking "request mission" click the "locate" button. Not all agents can stalk folks for you.


Tydeth Gilitae wrote:
While we're on the topic of checking APIs, what are the usual softwares people actually use to DO that?

EveMon lets you check to see if they have the skills they claim. Or if they claim to be a 2 week old newbie but have 100M skillpoints. Or when you are checking their kills, you see that they tend to blow up their fellow corp members, which can be a bad sign most of the time. But usually, it gets used as a "hey, if you get skill X up to level Y, then you can fly ship Z with us" or "no wonder your DPS is low, these are some skills you ought to look at". But usually the emails I get are "hey Hutt, you have metallurgy 5, can you research these blueprints to ME X?"

Alliances tend to need more automated things and thus have to make their own custom software. Such as Test's auth system:
https://wiki.pleaseignore.com/wiki/Auth
I'm certain Goons have their equivalent.


Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
I finally figured out what "MD" means that you guys keep mentioning. You're talking about that guy with the 86 billion bounty, Marked Dragon or whatever.


MD = Market Discussions. The forum this thread is posted in.

Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#243 - 2013-07-16 01:42:21 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Zaxix wrote:
WTF? You haven't addressed the quote in which you contradict yourself. I was looking forward to it!


I only feed trolls that are entertaining. If you think that I think dragons are real, you're the dupe.

That sounds a lot like you're admitting to trolling. You either said the mind control thing because you believed it, or in spite of it. So you're either crazy or a troll. Maybe you're just a natural troll; you troll whether you want to or not.

I was serious btw. The post was a schizophrenic work of art. I was looking forward to an equally circuitous explanation. I can't decide whether to give you credit for all 13 pages or to reclassify them as particpatory art by the other posters. Or is it counter trolling? Or are you serious and you're getting trolled? Or maybe its just some good ole fashioned sock puppetry you're performing for entertainment value.

Two can play the paranoid game, sir.

Bokononist

 
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#244 - 2013-07-16 10:57:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhodopsin Pserad
Zaxix wrote:
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Zaxix wrote:
WTF? You haven't addressed the quote in which you contradict yourself. I was looking forward to it!


I only feed trolls that are entertaining. If you think that I think dragons are real, you're the dupe.

That sounds a lot like you're admitting to trolling. You either said the mind control thing because you believed it, or in spite of it. So you're either crazy or a troll. Maybe you're just a natural troll; you troll whether you want to or not.

I was serious btw. The post was a schizophrenic work of art. I was looking forward to an equally circuitous explanation. I can't decide whether to give you credit for all 13 pages or to reclassify them as particpatory art by the other posters. Or is it counter trolling? Or are you serious and you're getting trolled? Or maybe its just some good ole fashioned sock puppetry you're performing for entertainment value.

Two can play the paranoid game, sir.


Sir, don't blame me that you've failed to effectively research government projects in mind-control and psychological coercion. When I say "mind-control" I don't mean satellites which control your thoughts (other than media conglomerate ones which have intermediaries, like the TV: http://www.timemanagementhq.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tv-viewing-statistics.jpg), I simply mean programs intended to influence opinions of the mass populace or targeted operations against individuals in order to engender certain behaviors, false beliefs, emotional paradigms, etc..

The fact remains, if you do not believe governments and corporations in the real world do not employ tactics like this, both ethically (like making billboards), and unethically (like gangstalking, jury-rigging, criminal connections, etc.), then you are either a person who regularly participates in these activities, or you're an idiot, or both, as you can hardly be the former without the latter.

Mr. John Locke would have some highly literate words to say to a person such as yourself - if you are literate enough to process his writing style. He was an extremely erudite man and sometimes even I have to stop and read a sentence a few times to get his meaning. Orwell and Bradbury, of course, associated mass decline in literacy with the birth of totalitarian states centered around mass deception, but I'm sure you're going to tell me this is legible to the average member of western culture: http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/texts/locke/locke1/Essay_contents.html

Next thing you're going to be telling me is that media technology doesn't control peoples' minds...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7f/WOTW-Cartoon-Callan.jpg

Ask any advanced learner, one who has studied and learned for their entire life, any of sufficient knowledge will tell you "I don't know what I don't know" because that is the biggest concept that any person who has advanced in learning well enough will agree upon universally with the rest of the educated.

this is a game the revels in all these activities. Psychological harassment and manipulation, spying, gang behavior, propaganda, etc. so you are not only aware these things exist in the real world, you are an active participant in them, at the least, in a virtual world. This is one of the reasons CCP should not permit teens to play this game due to the fact that they do, and have, employed these tactics across multiple countries, to terrorize other youth to the point of death. It may be fun to join "The Third Wave" in a video game, but when people lose their understanding that such behaviors are both extant and unethical in the real world, then there is a problem.

I suggest you go ask Sen. John McCain whether or not psychological tactics can be used to cause severe thought pattern and emotional paradigm changes in people.

Regardless, I'm probably wrong. Nobody is mass brainwashing the populace into being half-wits. What truly progressive and educated person wouldn't rather consume this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrUvu1mlWco

Over this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I

It's just style, has no influence on the mind whatsoever...

Who wouldn't rather listen to Nirvana over Verdi? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVjDP0vlem4

Wouldn't want to tear down the Sistine Chapel to build a store for Apple?
Wouldn't rather buy a Rothko than a Rodin?

Thanks, I'll keep the tinfoil hat on, it keeps the retards running the megacorps from telling me our culture is superior to those that came before.

Though it is a really compelling argument when people tell me "Who let the Dogs Out?" is the best thing since Shostakovich's Piano Concerto I, I do think you should examine the general decline in cultural quality in the last 50 years and ask yourself whether or not I'm right. After you do that, you should ask yourself why the British called Lady Liberty the "Super Tramp of Babylon" in the 70's and said that they're going to punish the United States... http://www.metacafe.com/watch/9621469/supertramp_child_of_vision/

http://www.coverart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/breakfastamerica911.jpg

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#245 - 2013-07-16 12:14:24 UTC
Here's my API, minus all the stuff I consider mostly private info. Nothing special about it, haven't been blowing up anyone. Been blown up once by a player when I thought it would be fun to mine in a wormhole on my second time in the game (knowing ahead of time I would likely get blown up). I suspect my skill queue will look very noobish as well because I haven't really been dedicated solely to anything specific yet because I really don't know what all there is to do in the game and I'm trying to sample it to some extent...

2385576
OHwThIz6LpUQYYmzgunvWEq4l8vznDodm7V74bJCK2CfsniW04qAh669VjqqskMT


"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#246 - 2013-07-16 13:22:47 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Here's my API, minus all the stuff I consider mostly private info. Nothing special about it, haven't been blowing up anyone. Been blown up once by a player when I thought it would be fun to mine in a wormhole on my second time in the game (knowing ahead of time I would likely get blown up). I suspect my skill queue will look very noobish as well because I haven't really been dedicated solely to anything specific yet because I really don't know what all there is to do in the game and I'm trying to sample it to some extent...

2385576
OHwThIz6LpUQYYmzgunvWEq4l8vznDodm7V74bJCK2CfsniW04qAh669VjqqskMT




Why are you posting this? What are we supposed to do with it?

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#247 - 2013-07-16 13:27:42 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
Here's my API, minus all the stuff I consider mostly private info. Nothing special about it, haven't been blowing up anyone. Been blown up once by a player when I thought it would be fun to mine in a wormhole on my second time in the game (knowing ahead of time I would likely get blown up). I suspect my skill queue will look very noobish as well because I haven't really been dedicated solely to anything specific yet because I really don't know what all there is to do in the game and I'm trying to sample it to some extent...

2385576
OHwThIz6LpUQYYmzgunvWEq4l8vznDodm7V74bJCK2CfsniW04qAh669VjqqskMT




Why are you posting this? What are we supposed to do with it?


I was addressing API info about finances, people thought I was attacking the full API. I was just illustrating that there is a great deal of information in it that I think is of little concern to release, though it is not particularly valuable. Additionally, some people were questioning whether I was actually a noob or just pretending to be one. My guess is there's probably more than a few things in my API that a more experienced player wouldn't do, but I really don't know, being an inexperienced player.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#248 - 2013-07-16 13:29:11 UTC
We've gone from "you can have my API over my dead body" to "hey let me publish my API in the public domain."

Delicious.

Bokononist

 
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#249 - 2013-07-16 13:34:09 UTC
You are just traying to get attention. Sad troll.

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

SencneS
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2013-07-16 15:00:46 UTC
You can always look at your API Log anyway..

For example - I happen to know someone in Kansas has my full API key and every day looks at my Account Balance, nothing else, just looking at my balance. Probably Ray seeing if all of a sudden I get billions deposited into my account from some unknown source...

Personally I always find that those paranoid have something to hide, but also those that freely give it out also have something to hide, but are only giving it out because they've been extremely smart about hiding their alts.

The only possible thing API has to offer anyone any benefit is market transactions. However, if you're doing so much market activity it fills the 1,000 line item buffer in a day, you're not really at any risk. I had EMMA (the app) pull market transactions every hour, because my market activity would be over 5,000 transactions a day of over 250 individual items.

No one is going to run filters on that to find out how I made money because it's insanity to even try, the information is useless because it's masked in a massive amount of items all generating no more than a 13.37 % profit (Yes, that is what I mark everything up as, regardless of what I could sell it for).

On the flip side, if you're making billions on a single item, it's likely that anyone interested already know and may already be doing the same thing anyway.

Honestly API doesn't offer a window into the soul of your EVE finances, the effort has to be worth the reward to begin with, and more likely than not anyone that looks into APIs to steal your secret ISK printing activity is either desperate and will not understand why you're printing ISK. Or already has loads of ISK and already knows how to do what you're doing.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2013-07-16 15:37:18 UTC
It is very simple OP.

1. Most corps in eve are utterly useless and you might as well stay in a noob corp or make your own corp as join them.

2. If you find a corp that doesn't require API or do any real backround check DO NOT join it. Corps like that are a magnet for awoxers and thieves.

3. Corp security is a big deal. The most powerful alliance in the history of EvE was destroyed by one person. (was called BoB look it up it is a cool story).

4. Many people in EvE are indeed trying to scam you or blow up your stuff.

5. Almost everything worthwhile about the game is hard or impossible to do solo.

It is therefore highly desirable to find a group of people to play with in whom you can trust and who will gradually trust you.
My current corp has given me PvP training , skill books and free ships.
I have traded many ships over to corp mates so that they can transport them for me. So far they have always given them back.
The API i gave them if they have studied it in detail will show i buy ships and my income is from a high sec alt who transfers isk often so i can keep losing ships in glorious explosions.
I only really do exploration and pvp. i care nothing for market trading but i do know this. If i wanted to manipulate/exploit the market your API would be the last resource i would use. The ideal resource would be to listen to the financial planners from the large null sec alliances and find out what way they are planning to tip the market next and get in on it before they send out their 35 thousand members to enact it.

Tl:dr. Corps require API's as one part of their security screening and joining a corp that doesn't even do the very basic level of security will put you at much greater risk than any imagined harm from looking at your market trades.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#252 - 2013-07-16 15:50:19 UTC
This thread is like a Regression of human achivments..we keep going back to the start...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#253 - 2013-07-16 16:35:46 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
This thread is like a Regression of human achivments..we keep going back to the start...

It's a logistical nightmare

Bokononist

 
RAW23
#254 - 2013-07-16 17:07:59 UTC
SencneS wrote:
Probably Ray seeing if all of a sudden I get billions deposited into my account from some unknown source...



For some reason I imagined Ray was South African. Perhaps it was something to do with his contempt for large sections of humanity.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#255 - 2013-07-16 17:28:09 UTC
Zaxix wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
This thread is like a Regression of human achivments..we keep going back to the start...

It's a logistical nightmare


It's more of a Long Jump...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Molic Blackbird
Orion Faction Industries
Orion Consortium
#256 - 2013-07-16 17:43:27 UTC
This thread just refuses to die. My theory is Rhodopsin is controlling everyone's mind making them post. His denial that true mind control exist only proves that he is in fact the one doing it.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#257 - 2013-07-16 17:56:17 UTC
Molic Blackbird wrote:
This thread just refuses to die. My theory is Rhodopsin is controlling everyone's mind making them post. His denial that true mind control exist only proves that he is in fact the one doing it.



Its actually a social experiment to test what levels of stupidity you need to have in order to get to max pages without a single "like" Big smile

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Rhodopsin Pserad
Ho Theos Geometrei
#258 - 2013-07-17 01:00:55 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
Molic Blackbird wrote:
This thread just refuses to die. My theory is Rhodopsin is controlling everyone's mind making them post. His denial that true mind control exist only proves that he is in fact the one doing it.



Its actually a social experiment to test what levels of stupidity you need to have in order to get to max pages without a single "like" Big smile


"Brevity is the soul of wit." - Polonius the Fool

Clearly I am not here to entertain anyone. You pay CCP for your entertainment, not me. I'll tell you a tale of bawdry for a half billion ISK if that's what you prefer.

"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit, Or wilt thou go ask the Mole? Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod, Or Love in a golden bowl?"  "Above all, you can believe in Providence in either of two ways, either as thirst believes in the orange, or as the ass believes in the whip."
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#259 - 2013-07-17 03:37:59 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
"Brevity is the soul of wit." - Polonius the Fool


Brevity is... wit.

Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:
I'll tell you a tale of bawdry for a half billion ISK if that's what you prefer.

You're going to tell us a tale of obscenity in speech? Or were you going to tell us a bawdy tale? I much prefer tales of ribaldry.

Bokononist

 
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#260 - 2013-07-17 03:41:23 UTC
Rhodopsin Pserad wrote:


"Brevity is the soul of wit." - Polonius the Fool



i believe it should be quoted by Shakespeare, but nvm.

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.