Assembly Hall

WH space is completely different to null, even if local was the same. You can't compare the two and that's not the point. The point is local IS the reason people AFK, but stating this fact doesn't also mean that some of us want any change. For we believe it is already balanced.

When people say that no one in WH space complains about AFK cloakers, it's true. For how would they even know they are there? That is the point and nothing more.

You are correct though, you simply do not know if they are AFK or not. This is the major flaw in that argument that Gunslinger keeps highlighting. This complaint isn't even about those AFK, it's about active play and reducing the uncertainty associated with cloaking and it's fuddling of local intel.
But your claim of 'no risk' is quite frankly ridiculous. If you wish to hand an enemy no risk, then you shoulder that fault completely. Because if you had accepted that he was most likely not AFK, you would have been ratting in a PvP ship, in a gang, or mining in a large group with protection. In other words, be prepared.

I couldn't comment on AFK missioning, as I find it boring as hell anyway and haven't heard if people still do it or not.

People keep saying AFK ice mining is gone, but I've yet to be told exactly what stops them activating the laser and going AFK. As before.

Also AFK freighting is still very much alive, but as always there are risks involved.

The final one. No one and I mean NO ONE, has ever ganked anyone AFK. To even suggest this is to be quite honest, ridiculous. What's next, comparing it with botting? Or would you like to also throw in the complaint, that it's an exploit? Please.

It's also bad gameplay when people can use a mechanic that provides them with instant and accurate intel on who is in a system at any given time without exerting any effort.

You want one type of bad gameplay gone? Work on fixing the bad game mechanic that it is trying to counter.


So basically... you want people to fight on your terms? If you are PvEing... no one should threaten you. If you are all ready to fight... then people can come at you.

Sorry... but my 5 to 10 man gangs have no interest in getting squashed by 50+ man fleets.

Besides... attacking an alliance shouldn't just be limited to fleet brawls and SOV. Attacking industry and PVE with small groups should be equally viable (currently AFK cloaking achieves this).

Also... lol @ "fair."


Good sir... that is the ENTIRE POINT of using PvP ships to do PvE. If you present yourself as too much of a threat, the cloaker won't engage and you can continue making money. Eventually the cloaker will get bored and either attack someone he/she shouldn't (and die) or just leave.


FFS... you do realize that this makes you seem more cowardly than high-sec miners... right?

The high-sec miner has to deal with the constant threat of all those neutrals being a possible suicide ganker. They have no idea who it might be or when such an action may come... even making themselves unprofitable isn't a guarantee that lol-gankers won't show up... and yet they still continue to ply their trade. Usually without support.

You are part of a 0.0 alliance made up of hundreds or thousands of people... many of them on at any given time... so you usually have support nearby. You always know who is and isn't a threat based on local (if it isn't blue, it's a hostile). Your gear in is system. You have bubbles that can make entry into a system very hard. You can put up special POS mods to mitigate the risk of certain things (ex. cyno jammer).

Explain to me how a high-sec miner can play EVE when he/she is under constant duress from unknowns with limited support and options... but a SINGLE. PERSON. presents such a threat that they can prevent hundreds or even thousands of other players from playing?

I'm sorry... but no person in the game has the ability (or should have the ability) to pick and choose any and all engagements. Even while PvEing or doing industry stuff. Not without paying penalties (which cloaking ships do by generally being more frail than their Tech 1 variants).

I suggest you live in high-sec or low-sec for awhile to learn how to live with and manage actual risk.

Local doesn't give us a list of who is good, ie defenders, miners, complex runners, sov holders and who is bad, trouble makers, gankers and lame ass pvpers. The rules set down by the sov holder does. Those welcome in the space and who follow rules are set as friendly, those who we don't want in the systems are set as unfriendly.

No intel from local would be the death of eve. all sources of isk and minerals outside of high sec and WH space would be shut down completely, null sec would be empty like low sec.



Well, sovereignty space is sovereignty space, if 50 online live in the system, and you invade their space with a 10 man fleet, expect 50 people to come out in pvp ships and blow your ass up. If you want "fair" pvp, go do faction warfare or something. Gankers are the lowest form of scum in the eve universe so they get treated as such.



Fair point, still not valid, complex rats are immune to ewar, so that is pointless, webbers and warp disrupters are just wasted slots, and pvp type ship, like assault ships and destroyers are useless at pve. Mining barges are impossible to fit for pvp. Point is also invalid that the pve ships are usually tanking the rats as well, making it easy for a ganker to come in a bomber and get a free kill.



Yes, pvpers like yourself hate high sec miners, some who mine in the more popular systems get ganked, so what, they have local too, it isn't to hard to find a system that isn't so overpopulated and get to know the locals and do the same checks we do in null sec.

In high sec, yer you can loose your ship, but gankers are restricted to cheap ships, like destoryers, have a time limit to destroy the ship in and more importantly can't hot drop. Also high sec is for everyone, it isn't owned by anyone.

Industrial, Mining and pve players aren't interested in a fair fight, if u threaten our activities, we want to jump in defence ships and blow your ass clean back to your home station, we want to destroy every ship that is hot dropped in and not let a single pod get out alive. And we want to do it fast, so we can get back to why we play the game, ie industry, mining and pve.

Pvpers are just there to use up and destroy the ships we make that they buy from us and fly, so we can make more, buy us free game time with the PLEXes they love to sell us and take a good beating when they misbehave like long term camping cloaked in "hostile" space.

You want to allow Cynos in WH?

This. The problem isn't with AFK cloaking itself. It's that an AFK cloaker by his presence is impacting on other players while not needing to be at the keyboard, or even in their mum's basement for hours on end. All this without the AFK cloaker running any risk to his ship whatsoever.

There should be risks to AFK cloaking. Right now there are none.

It ought be be possible to scan down AFK cloakers with the right skills and equipment.

Yes it should be a package of changes. You'll find even those of us that like the status quo, would agree to that. A difficult way to find cloaks within that package.
But no change or nerf to cloaks should happen until or without, that package containing a removal of intel from local. This would mean you have to work for intel and not get it handed to you on a plate.

Although I'm not sure the poster you quoted would agree to that.

The "Nullbear" can dock up in a station that's protected by 4 sets of timers...

1. Local is fine how it is. Gankers just whine about seeing expensive ships safe-ing up when they enter a system where they aren't welcome. Of course people aren't just going to let you kill their pride and joy.

2. Cynos need a rethink. Spooling up is a good idea. At the moment people are scared of being hot dropped, hence the needs for huge defensive fleets of super cheap ships just to take out a single threat.

3. Being long term AFK in hostile space needs to go. Yer, scouting in a cloaked covert opps ship is a valid tactic, but leaving your character online while you aren't even home, just because you know it frustrates defensive fleets and stops normal operations inside that system is an abuse of that mechanic. CCP is all about cracking down on systems and ways setting things up so machine code can't play the game for you, and stopping people from only minimally being at the keyboard like old school ice mining or auto clearing mission rooms with domi drone boats. Lets see them do it for PvP too.

4. Maybe make special faction scan probes that can scan down cloaked ships. Require very high levels of scanning skills to use them effectively and give them long cycle times. Let the players take control of there own space, after all that's the whole point of sovereignty. Sov holders taking the place of concord and NPC factions to control their own bit of space and lives in it and who doesn't.

PvPers carry on about what they call "nullbears", but lets not forget when PvPers carry on about special favors for them like removing local channel intel because it's too "scary" for them, they are being carebears themselves. CCP has given PvPers lots of things like covert hot drops, bombers, tier 3 battlecruises, black opps battleships and even more destroyers to make pvp more easy, none really have any real use outside of pvp and ganking. Time to give something back to the rest of the people who play eve.

Cynos are related to cloaking. Cloaking is related to local and AFK. All these issues are interconnected

Right now 0.0 in friendly alliance space is too secure. It's almost same level of security as high sec, if not MORE secure if you take into account war decs. This is simply unacceptable.

0.0 has to become less secure, the way it was when the game started

Without covert cynos being able to be used in their current form, ie warp a bomber or T3 on top of the person you want to gank, lock, set warp disrupter, hot drop a fleet of alts in, kill, hot drop them straight out again, a cloaky camper in system is a lot less of an issue.

Cloaky camping isn't an issue in ether WH or high sec because they lack the possibility of hot drops, not because of the lack local channel intel.