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Dev blog: Dual Character Training

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William Sedgwick Vyvorant
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#261 - 2013-06-10 15:33:05 UTC
Personally, I like it, I've got my main who has the queue almost all the time and my alt only rarely gets it (i.e when I go to a clean clone for going into Null etc.) so the ability to buy a plex from the market and get my alt 30 days of skill queue time to make him a better miner, salvager and hauler is great, heck I may even let him use T2 drones if there's time left over.

If you want to train a character long term then use Power of Two then pay/plex the account until you're done once it expires then move it to a spare slot on another account if you want. For short train alts like Miners, PI, haulers or cynos then this is a great feature.

Good job CCP
Susitna
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#262 - 2013-06-11 04:01:30 UTC
I like the idea. However, I will not use it by buying a plex. I would use it today if I could just by it at the same rate as a subscrition. .
Dargen Heluene
Pie Family Rock Farming INC
#263 - 2013-06-16 19:32:42 UTC
I did a quick search and was not able to find any information in this thread on one detail:
When you activate Dual Training, does your 30 days end at the same time of day that you started it, or does it end at the next server downtime?
Eric Agerwal
Cryosoft
#264 - 2013-06-28 14:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Eric Agerwal
Dual account is a nice addition - but like other suggest - why not allow 1 PLEX per alt - so if I want to spend 3 PLEX in a month on an account let it happen.
Also it would be nice to see an in game system channel called account- like local/region/constallation that gives notifications of either skill queue inactive - or skill queue ends in an hour for any alts on the account. This way if you are training alts up for R&D, Industry etc you can relog and tweak queue.. Since there are no visual cues as things stand we need this.
Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#265 - 2013-06-28 14:37:46 UTC
I am currently taking advantage of this Dual Character training feature. For years, I have had two empty slots on this account because it was my main & could never get myself to stop training it.

I bought a plex and started dual training, just finished my first cyno alt in 12 days, starting on my second cyno alt for 12 days. The week I have left after second cyno alt is trained, I will train each alt a few days in something that matters.

I will then be done, will not have to buy another plex. I will have two useful cyno alts for my cap pilots on other accounts.

The upside is never had to stop training on my main, didn't have to train cyno alts on another account & then waste four plexes to transfer both alts to this account. So, net saved is 3 plexes & no time lost on main (me).

Awesome feature that was needed for a long time, thanks CCP.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Tsopanaa
Surfers of the Apocalypse
#266 - 2013-06-29 06:54:55 UTC
Where is the remaining time of the Dual Character displayed?I cant find it in account managementSmile
Dargen Heluene
Pie Family Rock Farming INC
#267 - 2013-06-29 14:36:51 UTC
Tsopanaa wrote:
Where is the remaining time of the Dual Character displayed?I cant find it in account managementSmile


Yes, this is something I want as well. The only thing the Account page tells you is when you can add another plex for additional training, but it does not tell you how long your current dual training will last.
Tsopanaa
Surfers of the Apocalypse
#268 - 2013-06-29 14:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsopanaa
Dargen Heluene wrote:
Tsopanaa wrote:
Where is the remaining time of the Dual Character displayed?I cant find it in account managementSmile


Yes, this is something I want as well. The only thing the Account page tells you is when you can add another plex for additional training, but it does not tell you how long your current dual training will last.


The problem is worse .You get the message about the remaining days for re-activation until the last week.After that this info is not even available.
Transaction History shows nothing about a plex activated for dual training ,at least i would see when i activated the plex and what specific time and just add 30 days.
I hope the SP i trained in these 30 days on my alt will remain and not vanish since there is no proof of the activation of the dual character training aka "our logs show nothing" etc etc Ugh
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#269 - 2013-06-30 15:09:02 UTC
Yeah, that is really annoying. There should be at least a trace to find out how long that option is still active.

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#270 - 2013-07-05 12:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Taram Caldar
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I think I would consider using it if a plex bought me 2 months of alt training. As it stands, it seems like poor value to me because it's the same cost as funding 2 accounts, but with half the utility (I can only use one of the characters at once).



Technically it's a 'higher' cost than running 2 accounts since, as you said, you have no functionality on the plexed character other than training while a 2nd account can be fully accessed, played, used, etc. Not to mention the one training uses it's plexed time whether it's actually training or not. Doesn't benefit from 'power of two' deals or 'buddy code' deals, etc.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.  He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
Ole Volan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#271 - 2013-07-05 21:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ole Volan
The last line on CCP Quant's Devblog, "Dual Character Training", dated May 15th. says,
Quote:
"For improved visibility, please note that activated and remaining Dual Character Training time may be seen at any time in the Account Management page."


This is not the case!

If your character has over 7 days of dual char training left, then you get a date when you can add another 30 days. Add 7 days to that and you can figure out your expiration date.

But if you have less than 7 days left, there is no reference as to when your dual char training expires.

And this is when you need this information the most!!

I don't care where this information is shared. The account management page is fine. That is where you promised it was going to be.

But this critical information is not displayed anywhere. NOT ANYWHERE!

Is this an oversight? Or do you want our skill plans to fail so we are forced to buy another plex?
Dargen Heluene
Pie Family Rock Farming INC
#272 - 2013-07-11 11:49:24 UTC
Well, my 30 days of training ended. It seems that the training ends at exactly 720 hours. So I guess it is possible to keep track of when the training will end, if you remember the exact time that you started it, but it still makes sense to have that date and time listed in some way.
Twikki
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#273 - 2013-07-11 21:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Twikki
Some interesting posts here. I will apologise in advance if i repeat anything that has been prevouisly said. These forums just send my eyes all funky.

Ok Duel Character Training, its a great thing About Time.

However, it is too expensive! You are paying over the odds for a character you can use at the same time.

I have however, used it twice. And i now realise it would have been cheaper to create a new account train the character to how i want him, then transfer him.

Arrow I agree with a previous post it should be free!
Arrow The above is not going to happen. So there should be a cheaper option.

For example, 1 plex will allow 60 days off duel character training or even 90. (i prefer the 90 day option myself Big smile)

After all you cant use both characters at the same time, and CCP will still make there money. Proberly more to be fair as more people would use this service.

Just my 2 pennies worth
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#274 - 2013-07-14 20:04:58 UTC
This is ridiculous, I want to know how many days I have left and this information is not available anywhere. Not in the character sheet, not in Account Management, not in Evemon (so probably not available via API).

I cannot even calculate if from purchase date because it is not listed in the account transaction history! Although other payments via PLEX are listed there.

.
Danyrd
Gone Krabbing
#275 - 2013-07-31 11:29:36 UTC
Twikki wrote:
Some interesting posts here. I will apologise in advance if i repeat anything that has been prevouisly said. These forums just send my eyes all funky.

Ok Duel Character Training, its a great thing About Time.

However, it is too expensive! You are paying over the odds for a character you can use at the same time.

I have however, used it twice. And i now realise it would have been cheaper to create a new account train the character to how i want him, then transfer him.

Arrow I agree with a previous post it should be free!
Arrow The above is not going to happen. So there should be a cheaper option.

For example, 1 plex will allow 60 days off duel character training or even 90. (i prefer the 90 day option myself Big smile)

After all you cant use both characters at the same time, and CCP will still make there money. Proberly more to be fair as more people would use this service.

Just my 2 pennies worth
It is a shame 1, Devs pretty much stop monitoring threads after the 1st page of replies. So the good suggestions and ideas remain just that, suggestions and ideas. 2., That it really doesn't matter what the paying customer thinks. The thinking seems to revolve around short term high gain, rather than long term gain but at a slightly lower rate.
$20 / 550+mil isk for 30 days training is not really something the average player will be using more than once or twice, due to cost. Twikki's suggestion of 60 or 90 days would in fact probably see the use of dual character training taken up by a lot more.
CCP Quant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#276 - 2013-07-31 16:46:03 UTC
Danyrd wrote:
Twikki wrote:
Some interesting posts here. I will apologise in advance if i repeat anything that has been prevouisly said. These forums just send my eyes all funky.

Ok Duel Character Training, its a great thing About Time.

However, it is too expensive! You are paying over the odds for a character you can use at the same time.

I have however, used it twice. And i now realise it would have been cheaper to create a new account train the character to how i want him, then transfer him.

Arrow I agree with a previous post it should be free!
Arrow The above is not going to happen. So there should be a cheaper option.

For example, 1 plex will allow 60 days off duel character training or even 90. (i prefer the 90 day option myself Big smile)

After all you cant use both characters at the same time, and CCP will still make there money. Proberly more to be fair as more people would use this service.

Just my 2 pennies worth
It is a shame 1, Devs pretty much stop monitoring threads after the 1st page of replies. So the good suggestions and ideas remain just that, suggestions and ideas. 2., That it really doesn't matter what the paying customer thinks. The thinking seems to revolve around short term high gain, rather than long term gain but at a slightly lower rate.
$20 / 550+mil isk for 30 days training is not really something the average player will be using more than once or twice, due to cost. Twikki's suggestion of 60 or 90 days would in fact probably see the use of dual character training taken up by a lot more.



We love getting feedback and you guys have already pointed out some really good improvements to the current implementation. I assure you the lack of feedback from us here has more to do with the summer vacation period than anything else Big smile Rest assured, there will be iterations on this feature in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#277 - 2013-07-31 17:03:58 UTC
CCP Quant wrote:

We love getting feedback and you guys have already pointed out some really good improvements to the current implementation. I assure you the lack of feedback from us here has more to do with the summer vacation period than anything else Big smile Rest assured, there will be iterations on this feature in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later.


This post contained no information or actual feedback whatsoever.

Specifically which comments have you taken in to account, and exactly what iterations will you be making, and where are they on the development plan?

Please don't insult your players with politician-like waffle. It damages the relationship between me (us) and you.

Thanks in advance.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#278 - 2013-07-31 17:16:37 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
CCP Quant wrote:

We love getting feedback and you guys have already pointed out some really good improvements to the current implementation. I assure you the lack of feedback from us here has more to do with the summer vacation period than anything else Big smile Rest assured, there will be iterations on this feature in the future, hopefully sooner rather than later.


This post contained no information or actual feedback whatsoever.

Specifically which comments have you taken in to account, and exactly what iterations will you be making, and where are they on the development plan?

Please don't insult your players with politician-like waffle. It damages the relationship between me (us) and you.

Thanks in advance.


Waffles, you need more, with blueberry syrup and sugar and stuff.

He did not give you an answer, he is bad.

Half of CCP on vacation, they are still looking at it, he felt compelled to actually instigate a reply to this thread, and he let ya know there is a "iteration" incoming "though when a person says "Hopefully", it probably means "pipe dream".

Good enough answer for the moment. We would like to know what there thinking, they aren't prepared to say so yet, and thats because the moment they do, expect a threadnaught (good or bad), to follow it.

Yaay!!!!
Sarmatiko
#279 - 2013-07-31 18:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Specifically which comments have you taken in to account, and exactly what iterations will you be making, and where are they on the development plan?

What they should respond to generic feedback like "whaaaa, CCP, I cant afford Dual Training and this is some strong evidence that no one else can afford it! So make it free or super cheap because I'm very important"?
If you looking for reasoning behind necessity of dual-training - then you don't know what you want and shouldn't use this feature.
If you know why you really need dual-training alt on single account- then you will pay the current price without any doubt.

Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I think I would consider using it if a plex bought me 2 months of alt training.

Why only two months for one plex? Let's ask four months per plex and wait for CCP response to this "great" suggestion \o/
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#280 - 2013-08-02 12:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mournful Conciousness
Lets be intellectually honest about what dual character training is.

There is currently a glut of plex available. It's market price is very low compared with the effort required to make the money to buy one and its utility value to a regular player.

CCP management and shareholders would prefer to see less plex in the market because this would increase subscriptions.

Allowing people to burn them up in alt training is one way to make money for free for CCP. The other is to make plex moveable and destructable (remember that?)

When people buy a plex, they are in effect paying someone else's subscription fee early. When you buy one in game, you're getting your account subbed by someone else who has already put up the money.

Eliminating plex's without increasing play time allows CCP to remove the liability against the pre-paid money and post it as a profit.

I think it's a little cynical actually.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".