These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What is PVP to you and why do you like it?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#61 - 2013-07-13 15:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Saint
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
But Open world and freedom is pretty much the fundamental basis for the whole game. I don't know why you would play if you disagreed with that aspect?


Well Seven, you're right 100% regarding the PVP in this game. So, that is exactly why I don't play the PVP part of this game. That's okay though, since I do enjoy the High Sec game play which includes missioning and selling toons on the bazaar. I personally just feel there is no PVP for me in this game, since I pretty much need a consensual combat scenario to enjoy that part of the gaming experience. It's a bit frustrating that much of the new content that CCP puts out is only in PVP areas, but I just don't get to play that part... Ships are cool though. To me, if there is no fairness or balance to it, it is a pointless activity.

In RL, my son (19) and two of his friends got jumped by a group of 15 guys who where having a drunken party. He did pretty well considering the odds and all three fought back - gave as much as they could, but my son looked like "rocky balboa" when I saw him after the battle. I wish so much that I was there to help him, but he remembers that day with his friends like it was Normandy, and actually loves the memories of the glory in battle. He was a hero to me for defending his friends, but the guys who jumped him on St. Patricks Day were "ALL COWARDS" period!!! Does Gaming life model Real Life mentality? Why did those 15 party guys feel it was acceptable. Sorry friends if there is no honor in gaming, then there is no point to play that part of it...

I love all the answers though in this thread, it's turning out to be great!!!!

Everyone is so different, in what they think is playing against other players...

I don't think anyone is really wrong, just some are a little too specific.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-07-13 22:21:56 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
anyone who says that any player activity that can be described as being against or opposed to another player is not pvp is objectively wrong

In the context of MMOs its not a correct statement. Since everyone is competing for resources one could then say ice mining is PvP which is obviously fallacious.

The generally accepted definition in the gamer community is combat.

other games offer a more limited variety of pvp activities. this does not change the meaning from 'player versus player'

(that's what pvp stands for just fyi)

this ~generally accepted definition~ [citation needed] is wrong
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-07-13 22:22:18 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
anyone who says that any player activity that can be described as being against or opposed to another player is not pvp is objectively wrong


Considering how PvP is so borked, yeah, I can see how PvPers can consider anything PvP.

I mean they gank. That's the sum of MMO PvP. Everything must be PvP then!

At least in a FPS game there's some objective to fight for. A cause.

Guy asleep at a gatecamp for 8hrs only objective is having a ship when he wakes up. Lol

People are putting too much into PvP being "harder" and more "challenging". Even in WoW you can see the difference of an average raider vs an average PvPer...

Raider -- gemmed/enchanted/stats optimized and farms for better gear to get into HM raids.

PvPer -- No gems. No enchants. Never learned to optimize stats. He only wants to farm BGs. PvE is too hard.

Had an arena partner that was a great example that's even seen in EvE. 15 year-old kid. Naga mouse. Got every macro known programmed on it. Learned all of the tricks to look kewl among peers. But in arena, couldn't close...and he's DPS. Blamed everyone else, would even heal me (a healer) because he wasn't playing as a partner anyway -- but the basic arena strats, too hard to learn. He jumped into the BGs and that's all he knows and how he plays. To this day, does the same thing. All that talk and even macros, couldn't get past 1800 rating.

It's not PvP vs PvE. It's about applying yourself to be the best in things that you do. To have that self-respect to be an asset in a group, not just an ass.

wtf
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2013-07-13 22:42:23 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
other games offer a more limited variety of pvp activities. this does not change the meaning from 'player versus player'

(that's what pvp stands for just fyi)

this ~generally accepted definition~ [citation needed] is wrong


And EvE is no different.

Hiding under the skirt of "sandbox" doesn't excuse the definition: PvP is non NPC combat.

It's human PLAYER vs human PLAYER.

It's not fighting through the market.

It's not ship spinning in a PvP game.

It's not building ships in a PvP game.

It's actual non-NPC combat.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2013-07-13 22:55:17 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
other games offer a more limited variety of pvp activities. this does not change the meaning from 'player versus player'

(that's what pvp stands for just fyi)

this ~generally accepted definition~ [citation needed] is wrong


And EvE is no different.

Hiding under the skirt of "sandbox" doesn't excuse the definition: PvP is non NPC combat.

It's human PLAYER vs human PLAYER.

It's not fighting through the market.

It's not ship spinning in a PvP game.

It's not building ships in a PvP game.

It's actual non-NPC combat.

no, 'versus' does not mean combat

anyone who says that any player activity that can be described as being against or opposed to another player is not pvp is objectively wrong
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2013-07-14 00:17:38 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
other games offer a more limited variety of pvp activities. this does not change the meaning from 'player versus player'

(that's what pvp stands for just fyi)

this ~generally accepted definition~ [citation needed] is wrong


And EvE is no different.

Hiding under the skirt of "sandbox" doesn't excuse the definition: PvP is non NPC combat.

It's human PLAYER vs human PLAYER.

It's not fighting through the market.

It's not ship spinning in a PvP game.

It's not building ships in a PvP game.

It's actual non-NPC combat.


Incorrect. Any time I can get the advantage of you (oh baby) I have PvPed. You have as well, even if you lost. I broaden that definition to it being PvP whenever you knowingly risk your ship and pod (or isk, reputation, ect) in whatever situation. If you take your retriever into 0.4 space to mine rocks, you can be owning peeps just by denying them a kill by being smart (and a bit lucky).
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-07-14 01:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Benny Ohu wrote:
no, 'versus' does not mean combat

anyone who says that any player activity that can be described as being against or opposed to another player is not pvp is objectively wrong


Anyone who can't distinguish what is played in a solo game ISN'T PvP needs to see a neurologist. Lol

Manfred Hideous wrote:
Incorrect. Any time I can get the advantage of you (oh baby) I have PvPed.


Missioning in EvE with NPCs is PvE.

Trading in EvE is PvE.

Mining in EvE is PvE.

Hauling goods in EvE is PvE.

Why?

Because it has nothing to do with another human fighting. It's activities you'll find in PvE games as well (can't be PvP in a solo PvE game, there isn't another human ingame to fight).

When fighting occurs with another human being during those activities, then, it's considered PvP.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2013-07-14 02:39:38 UTC
The reason I play this game, and have for a few years now- is specifically because of the core pillars that Eve stands on.
1) Non-consensual PvP
2) real consequence for loss
3) it's hard

No other game offers that like Eve, and it makes PvP have real impact. Who cares about death in a game where the only consequence is a boring run as a ghost from a graveyard? Or where 200 deaths a night in an FPS game means nothing at all?
Why bother putting any effort into anything so meaningless?

All the videos on YouTube about causality and one player making a real impact on possibly the entire game's population, are pretty much true. You just have to DO IT, actually undock and do it., but it's right there. This entire Fountain war came down to a few individuals and their personalities, but all of Eve is affected to some degree.

Fleet warfare in Eve is amazing. It scales incredibly well and rewards flying in fleets with other people. Specialized roles have enormous depth and variety.
There is a big difference between being ABLE to do something in Eve, and being GOOD at it.

PvP is why I even log in. I do the absolute minimum PvE required to fund PvP. I made PvP my 'job' by flying for a sov alliance with an SRP. By flying alot and dying for the cause.
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2013-07-14 02:41:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Robert Saint wrote:
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Any gameplay element, combat or otherwise in which the skills, experience and abilities of one player are pitted against another and one emerges the benefactor or victor.



Verunae, I agree with your above statement.

Do you feel that it is more rewarding to win in a PVP matchup if the odds are somewhat technically equal, and your skill was the deciding factor? Or are you perfectly comfortable being part of a gang that defeats a solo player that didn't have a chance?

Which is more rewarding to you? Or are they the same value?





[Edit: Also, I reject the concept of equality as far it goes to "fair fights". No fights are fair and equal, except things like chess. And chess is boring as hell. Things being mixed up, different capabilities across the board, that's what make thing interesting.


Pretty much what I taught my kids. No fight outside a ring is fair, so do what you have to do to win conclusively and as fast as possible.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-07-14 03:26:01 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
No other game offers that like Eve, and it makes PvP have real impact. Who cares about death in a game where the only consequence is a boring run as a ghost from a graveyard? Or where 200 deaths a night in an FPS game means nothing at all?
Why bother putting any effort into anything so meaningless?


Because you don't play responsible roles. If you did, it isn't meaningless.

You're used to dying because if you die, so what? YOU need the challenge of what a tank or healer in those games get by default, and are blamed if anything goes wrong. YOU have the luxury to sit back and just fight without care.

Without responsibilities you can be carefree. Nice isn't it?

Turn that around, yeah, you'll learn that dying is easy but if you die, all the rest dies. That's not fun.

See I play both sides of the coin. Be it a raider or a PvPer. But I'm not blinded to see PvP is carefree. It's not designed to have responsibilities, and for the most part, objectives. When I PvP it's about fun, it's about chilling. All of the work that is needed for a successful raid for example isn't needed. I still play a responsible role, but PvPers die so readily and healers are #1 targets, they hardly complain. If that's the players daily diet they would want something more challenging. But when I PvP it's to relax. The pressure isn't there in PvP.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2013-07-14 06:37:08 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Alaric Faelen wrote:
No other game offers that like Eve, and it makes PvP have real impact. Who cares about death in a game where the only consequence is a boring run as a ghost from a graveyard? Or where 200 deaths a night in an FPS game means nothing at all?
Why bother putting any effort into anything so meaningless?


Because you don't play responsible roles. If you did, it isn't meaningless.

You're used to dying because if you die, so what? YOU need the challenge of what a tank or healer in those games get by default, and are blamed if anything goes wrong. YOU have the luxury to sit back and just fight without care.

Without responsibilities you can be carefree. Nice isn't it?

Turn that around, yeah, you'll learn that dying is easy but if you die, all the rest dies. That's not fun.

See I play both sides of the coin. Be it a raider or a PvPer. But I'm not blinded to see PvP is carefree. It's not designed to have responsibilities, and for the most part, objectives. When I PvP it's about fun, it's about chilling. All of the work that is needed for a successful raid for example isn't needed. I still play a responsible role, but PvPers die so readily and healers are #1 targets, they hardly complain. If that's the players daily diet they would want something more challenging. But when I PvP it's to relax. The pressure isn't there in PvP.


Perhaps you should tell people that your PVP experiences is from WoW and not EVE.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-07-14 11:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Call Rollard
PVP in EVE is a challenge. It's mostly about the tactics you use and ships etc. Especially if you go to FC fleets you take responsibility for the ships and members of your fleet and you need to decide what to do next fast.

I've PVP'd mostly in 0.0 which is where I prefer it most, usually medium sized and small fleets I've flown in. i'm not really a fan of massive scale PVP.

You also have limited supplies, you can't just keep attacking with all your Battleships all the time for example otherwise you'd eventually run out of ISK etc.
Velarra
#73 - 2013-07-14 13:37:07 UTC
1. Logging in.
2. Because of Eve.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-07-14 14:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
Alpheias wrote:
Perhaps you should tell people that your PVP experiences is from WoW and not EVE.


I will tell them that I play or have played...

WoW
EvE
EQII
RIFT
DDO
A lot of F2P MMOs
Assortment of MuDs
Deus Ex
Battlefield series (and quite well)
Quake/Quake II
Hexxen
Homeworld series
Elder Scroll series (from Morrowind)
Age of Empires series
Commandos series
Silent Hunter series
And yeah, even The Sims and Motorhead (good COMPUTER game music!)

And still have the DOS games on 5.25" from the old days of computer gaming with a computer that still works that can play them as is.

So I play WoW and damn proud of it.

Your excuse again? Scared of some goblins?

LolPirateBig smile

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-07-14 14:39:32 UTC
to me it's a matter of semantics
and there are a vast, vociferous hoard of players in eve who play the semantics card most frequently


pvp is blowing up stuff, that is owned/controlled or operated by another player
everything else is merely aggressive competitive play

on the market, you compete with other players
in ships you fight other players
(this is where the semantics fanbois get there jollies)

I enjoy pvp, because fighting against another real person is so much more challenging than fighting against a scripted npc ship
but i'm not very good at it, which can get a little frustrating, but it's still good entertainment
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2013-07-14 15:48:49 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
[quote=Ace Uoweme][quote=Alaric Faelen]

Perhaps you should tell people that your PVP experiences is from WoW and not EVE.


And that presumes that WoW PVP even *is* PVP. There's no consequence to losing in 99% of MMOs. That's why I continue to play this terrible game. :)
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#77 - 2013-07-14 16:19:15 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Perhaps you should tell people that your PVP experiences is from WoW and not EVE.


I will tell them that I play or have played...

WoW
EvE
EQII
RIFT
DDO
A lot of F2P MMOs
Assortment of MuDs
Deus Ex
Battlefield series (and quite well)
Quake/Quake II
Hexxen
Homeworld series
Elder Scroll series (from Morrowind)
Age of Empires series
Commandos series
Silent Hunter series
And yeah, even The Sims and Motorhead (good COMPUTER game music!)

And still have the DOS games on 5.25" from the old days of computer gaming with a computer that still works that can play them as is.

So I play WoW and damn proud of it.

Your excuse again? Scared of some goblins?

LolPirateBig smile


No excuse. Just saying that if you if you want to engage people in a conversation about PVP, you should just say that your experience is based only on previous MMOs, like WoW, where you have PvPed if you want to contribute.

To say anything else would just be dishonest, I think.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2013-07-14 23:48:59 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
no, 'versus' does not mean combat

anyone who says that any player activity that can be described as being against or opposed to another player is not pvp is objectively wrong


Anyone who can't distinguish what is played in a solo game ISN'T PvP needs to see a neurologist. Lol

noone was talking about solo games
Mark Androcius
#79 - 2013-07-15 00:20:25 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
So EVE is a difficult game to figure out, as I try to balance my personal understanding of what Player Vs Player is.

Although, I have my personal view of what PVP, I would very much like to hear what anyone who is brave enough to post in GD.... as would others who read these threads.

Post with your MAIN, otherwise you're missing the point.

1) What is PVP to you?
2) Why do you like it?


Many options.
1: you live somewhere and somebody wants to take that away from you or make it unsafe, so you kill the dude.
2: You live somewhere, but you have so many friends, that the amount of space you occupy is not big enough anymore, so you try to take some away from someone else and that someone else will take option 1.
3: I build a LOT of ship components and modules and ammo, if i or my friends or anybody else for that matter, didn't kill each other often enough, who's gonna buy those?
4: I like your space, 2 people can not occupy the exact same space.
5: Making ships go boom makes me.... i dunno, it just makes me feel good.
6: the new podding scene..... WOW
7: You build the same things i do, DIE COMPETITION DIE!!!!! :P
8: If your corporation can't mine that ice, it will be worth more iskies to me ( seeing as i now can, if i wanted to )


O btw, when i say you, i do not specifically mean you, just whoever i or we are up against.

https://androcius.wordpress.com
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#80 - 2013-07-15 00:39:21 UTC
PVP to me is a lot of fun, but unfortunately something I have to make time for. Lately, thanks to incursions highsec is making into nullsec, I do more of that.

The problem is, I like a good encounter and not "stupid ship loss", so when I die, I want to get into another ship, and fight again. But I also like to look into why I lost - and that takes time I don't have.


So it's like the high-hanging fruit that tastes real good, but you really gotta reach for it.


Note that there's no sleep being lost over this situation, nor am I bleeding out my butt from the pain of not being able to do PVP for every moment I'm logged in. But it does make me reserved, asking "Do I have time for this tonight or should I just update the skill queue and log out?"


Oh well. It's a happy problem. Merely a game and all in good fun.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!