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Why some people in Eve cant do PvP

Author
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#41 - 2013-07-13 20:13:02 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
I been playing 4 1/2 years. Never kiiled a ship yet.....

I gave up even trying 3 1/2 years ago. Got tired of not knowing what to do, being ridiculed.

Tried to join EVE University but they wouldn't take my Main. They figured a 4 year old was simply up to no good. But I realized EVE U is a bunch of anal jerks anyway...

Now I simply find other things to do. Still have fun though just trading, playing the market, but I'd luv to be able to PVP...


I have only heard good things about Red vs Blue. If you are wanting to try PvP again then it may be a good idea to look them up.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#42 - 2013-07-13 20:53:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Seems to me, that this is more of a "chicken and egg" kind of circumstance.

An argument can easily be made that people are turning highsec into a hunting ground lately for the very reason that the risk averse avoid lowsec in the first place. So, they go to where there is a large number of viable targets.


Yeah very true. Certainly is a catch 22. I still strongly believe that the best solution suggested so far was the idea of scaling gategun damage. By doing this, it would reduce gatecamps and effectively give highsec players the possiblity of getting a foot in the door of lowsec, so to speak, without immediately being face-raped. This in addition to increased lowsec resource levels, would go a long way to persuading carebears to take the risk for the additional rewards. More potential profits for carebears risking lowsec, and more potential targets for pirates. More importantly, more carebears becoming not carebears. Lol It would be an epic win!

Of course, the moment this awesome idea was floated, the pirates jumped on it and wet themselves. The idea of not being able to kill their targets as they lemming single file through a gate was completely unacceptable to them. I mean, can you imagine, them having to actually scan down their targets and hunt them in system? I know, right?

So, lowsec remains a wasteland, and the pirates continue to get their defenceless kills in highsec.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#43 - 2013-07-13 21:12:42 UTC
Quote:
Yeah very true. Certainly is a catch 22. I still strongly believe that the best solution suggested so far was the idea of scaling gategun damage. By doing this, it would reduce gatecamps and effectively give highsec players the possiblity of getting a foot in the door of lowsec, so to speak, without immediately being face-raped. This in addition to increased lowsec resource levels, would go a long way to persuading carebears to take the risk for the additional rewards. More potential profits for carebears risking lowsec, and more potential targets for pirates. More importantly, more carebears becoming not carebears. It would be an epic win!


Never heard of "scaling gategun damage". I assume that means that gategun damage increases the more it shoots you?

But I am all for more resources for lowsec. What all is actually in there? Level 5 missions? Laughable. Better exploration sites? When the cov ops frigates are all but unkillable since they can cloak, if the pilot bothers to D-scan, also ridiculous. So, some lowsec ore, when it now randomly spawns in highsec too.

Basically, nothing.

Quote:
Of course, the moment this awesome idea was floated, the pirates jumped on it and wet themselves. The idea of not being able to kill their targets as they lemming single file through a gate was completely unacceptable to them. I mean, can you imagine, them having to actually scan down their targets and hunt them in system? I know, right?

So, lowsec remains a wasteland, and the pirates continue to get their defenceless kills in highsec.


You even said it yourself. People just lemming one by one through the lowsec entry gates. That's what causes problems, stupidity, not the people taking advantage of stupidity. It's easily possible to break through a gatecamp if you have half a brain and more than a few friends. Hell, half the time they warp to station if you uncloak a Falcon on the other side. (because they scout, and see it coming)

What you fail to understand is that gatecamping already got nerfed incredibly. You used to only be able to jump to (I think, it's been YEARS) 15km. Then, due to whining about gatecamps, they invented "jump to zero". Gatecamping doesn't need any more nerfs.

Especially because, when you really get right down to it, players do not have many points in time in which they are vulnerable. These points are the only windows of time in which you can gank someone, because it is completely impossible to knock someone out of warp in lowsec. Undocks and gates are the two major of these. Players who want kills will rightly focus on these points of vulnerability to attack their targets.

If you nerf gatecamping, it will still continue, albeit in a lesser manner. But station undock bumping and ganking? That will go up exponentially. And then more whining for nerfs.

But it's entirely inappropriate to say that people should have to scan someone down to have a crack at killing them. That's tantamount to complete safety so long as D-scan is still in the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#44 - 2013-07-13 21:38:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

What you fail to understand is that gatecamping already got nerfed incredibly. You used to only be able to jump to (I think, it's been YEARS) 15km. Then, due to whining about gatecamps, they invented "jump to zero". ....


JTZ was implemented because world+dog was using bookmarks to achieve the same result. Traveling more than a few jumps very regularly was pretty soul-crushing (think ice mining), so everybody used them. The enormous amount of bookmarks players accumulated could hang or lag nodes when simply copied. Players copied these a lot because you could sell them for decent iskies, and you could do it as a (ahem) tactic if you needed to lag out a system/node for some reason.

1-2 bookmarks per gate, per station, per system, per region, and wrangling all those without the bookmark management/organization tools we have now. I had a set for every region, as that was pretty common and the style of the time.

So, not because of whining about gate camps.

/lawn, get off it.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#45 - 2013-07-13 21:41:43 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

What you fail to understand is that gatecamping already got nerfed incredibly. You used to only be able to jump to (I think, it's been YEARS) 15km. Then, due to whining about gatecamps, they invented "jump to zero". ....


JTZ was implemented because world+dog was using bookmarks to achieve the same result. Traveling more than a few jumps very regularly was pretty soul-crushing (think ice mining), so everybody used them. The enormous amount of bookmarks players accumulated could hang or lag nodes when simply copied. Players copied these a lot because you could sell them for decent iskies.

2 bookmarks per gate, per system, per region, and wrangling all those without the bookmark management/organization tools we have now. I had a set for every region, as that was pretty common and the style of the day.

So, not because of whining about gate camps.

/lawn, get off it.



I stand corrected. In my defense, I did cease playing for about 3 years shortly afterward, and I didn't pay much attention to politics back then. :P I do seem to recall selling bookmarks though.

But it was 15km, and my memory served me right in that case? Or did I flop that one too?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#46 - 2013-07-13 21:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But it was 15km, and my memory served me right in that case?


Yup, 15km is what it was.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2013-07-13 21:58:23 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
So the only people on the risk side of the equation in hisec leave and that...somehow provides more incentive for those avoiding risk to leave hisec...what.....


The issue is all those coming up from low-sec to PvP *in* high-sec, because the high-sec players won't leave. CCP pushes it or the Hulkathon goes on again, they'll just leave the game or close their alt accounts -- as they don't want to PvP.

People pay to play a certain way. I'm in EvE for it's Tradeskilling and marketing, because other MMOs don't have it in this depth. PvP I can play in WoW or in Battlefield, duplication of it in EvE is pointless. That plate is full. What isn't is the crafting and the market which is unique in EvE. That's what I enjoy. Something different than the other MMOs.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#48 - 2013-07-13 22:00:37 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
So the only people on the risk side of the equation in hisec leave and that...somehow provides more incentive for those avoiding risk to leave hisec...what.....


The issue is all those coming up from low-sec to PvP *in* high-sec, because the high-sec players won't leave. CCP pushes it or the Hulkathon goes on again, they'll just leave the game or close their alt accounts -- as they don't want to PvP.

People pay to play a certain way. I'm in EvE for it's Tradeskilling and marketing, because other MMOs don't have it in this depth. PvP I can play in WoW or in Battlefield, duplication of it in EvE is pointless. That plate is full. What isn't is the crafting and the market which is unique in EvE. That's what I enjoy. Something different than the other MMOs.


And yet, you have personally, in the last few weeks, clamored and agitated like a little child with the express, stated intent to change every single thing about EVE that is in fact different.

You are not even trying to hide the fact that you're trolling now, are you?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#49 - 2013-07-14 00:32:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Rells wrote:
Rebuttal: You are the sheep I was referring to. The funny thing about sheep is that they bleet rather loudly. When they come on the forums they are nasty, with sharp insults for all who dare stand in the way of their "Epic quest" and uber ship of death. Yet in game they quake at the smallest risk and grind it out in interminable boredom. Sometimes, few times, I feel sorry for them.

The sheep flock to games like Eve was in the first years and try to turn them into WOW.
The sheep call the pvpers "murderer wannabes" and "psychotic" and so on. They have lost all perspective.
I have no problem killing sheep because they are beneath my notice and mutton tastes yummy when its cooked right.
Sheep are good for one thing. Consuming.
The players I speak of are just sheep. Run of the mill, boring sheep.

.....

The only one "bleating" here is you. I mean, really - who are you trying to convince? This is a lame attempt to basically set unsuspecting players up as marks for your own amusement in low-sec. And as a matter of fact, a lot of the players camping in low-sec are cowards. Show up with anything more than an easy gank and they quickly scatter to the nearest station or POS. Most low-sec players are so desperate for combat that they shoot literally anything - even if it has no value whatsoever.

Odyssey was such a transparent ploy to encourage low-sec roaming that it's not even funny. Except it is, because it's failed in a colossal way. If anything, mining and exploration have INCREASED in high-sec.

You know what they say: be careful what you wish for...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Rells
Lethal Riposte
#50 - 2013-07-14 01:28:46 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

The only one "bleating" here is you. I mean, really - who are you trying to convince? This is a lame attempt to basically set unsuspecting players up as marks for your own amusement in low-sec. And as a matter of fact, a lot of the players camping in low-sec are cowards. Show up with anything more than an easy gank and they quickly scatter to the nearest station or POS. Most low-sec players are so desperate for combat that they shoot literally anything - even if it has no value whatsoever.


Really? And what challenge would you pose. What epic fight would you and your ilk offer? What fight can a sheep put up? I have more isk than you can imagine in your little mining barge. Your ships, your loot dont interest me. What interests me is a spectacular battle, overcoming the odds, proving conventional wisdom wrong. If you came into my line of sight, I would blow you up and pod you not out of a desire to get your stuff. Simply out of a contempt for those who act like sheep, who allow themselves to be led to slaughter and go out with a whimper. You are insignificant to the real PvPers in the game.

Do you want to really know why people do piracy? It's not for the isk; piracy is a very poor isk earner per hour. Its not for the challenge battles; sheep dont put up anything resembling a challenge. Its not for the personal venomous feelings. Having been a pirate and known others and having been called worse I can tell you most people in PvP are normal, hard working fathers and mothers, great people that are a pleasure to play with and a rush to fight against. No, poeple do piracy because they get sick of the sheep invading game after game and turning the game into yet another wow clone. They get annoyed at the sheep bleating loudly and obnoxiously on the forums without ever backing up their bleats. They do piracy frankly because it annoys you and that is the only means to fight back at the forum pvpers and the sheep demanding everything be easy, free, safe and tomorrow. Its an act of contempt.

Arthur Aihaken wrote:

Odyssey was such a transparent ploy to encourage low-sec roaming that it's not even funny. Except it is, because it's failed in a colossal way. If anything, mining and exploration have INCREASED in high-sec.

You know what they say: be careful what you wish for...


Eve has been going down the sheep path for a very long time. Now CCP is desperately trying to keep up the content to keep poeple in game rather than providign toold for people to make their own game. They have turned the game into another grind clone with arenas in 0.0. I recall when Eve was young, you had to take more and more risks to get more and more wealthy. Now all you have to do is sit around in a mining barge or in a level 4 mission and grind and grind until you are successful. Along the way hundreds of PvPers warned over and over again that this would happen and got flamed to creation. Nullsec is little more than a glorified battleground.

What is more, the people at CCP have lost vision, they now are trying all these tricks to push people into PvP but they havent learned the basic psychological lesson of why their game is going the way it is. They constantly try to push sheep into lowsec and then the sheep want lowsec turned into high sec. How many times does this have to happen in how many games for CCP to get the message.
BiscuitMonsterr
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-07-14 02:00:25 UTC
Rells wrote:
There is one clear reason why people in Eve cant do PvP. The simple reason is because they believe they can't. Once you have made up your mind that something can't be done, you will not be able to do it. You will then be in the grip of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Because you dont think it can be done you wont do your best, you will hold back at critical junctures, hesitate at the important moment or pull back when you should press the attack.

I founded Agony Unleashed with my alt Keersom (RIP) in .. was it 2006? Time flies. For years I captained the corp before turning it over to Bamar who has now passed it on to Gizznitt. During that time we proved conclusively that conventional wisdom was what comes out of the south end of a northbound male bovine. I originally founded Agony because I was sick of being told to get in a big battleship (at the time they were the flavor of the year) and sit at 150km sniping at opponents. I thought that there was a better way to play the game, that frigs could be made to hurt the opponent.

I believe agony was a principal player in changing pvp in eve to make people think more out of the box. We took out classes of people who had never fired at another player. We put them in tech 1 frigs fitted with market cheap stuff and proved to them that if they coordinated their communication, their tactics and their fit, they could destroy opponents with years of skillpoints in massively expensive ships. People constantly tried to use smartbombs on the frig fleets and lost their expensive battleship for their efforts. We flew into null sec space with crowds of rookies and fleets learned to avoid the class gangs. In the process we taught playyers about communication, scouting, recon, ship fitting for teamwork and so on.

At one point a class was started to fly destroyers. The forums flamed like a supernova at the announcement. In the first encounter with an eagle, the covert ops scout dropped us 10km off the eagle and only 3 of my guns went off. The 20 destroyers in the gang, flown by newbie pilots, vaporized the expensive HAC in a single shot. Later the class grew and at one point the 30 destroyer class (near the max manageable limit) got into a fight with multiple battleships and HACs and destroyed them all. Sure they took casualties but all were elated. We remembered to tell the rookie pvp pilots to breathe afterward because we knew the people behind the computers would be shaking from adrenaline.

Later agony pilots fitted up some tech 1 frigs and had a bit of fun. They sat off a gate and waited to be attacked by a passing interceptor. What the interceptor didn't know is the pilot of the frig was waiting for just this occurrence. There is no rush in eve quite equal to killing an interceptor with a tech 1 frig and any pilot that can fit tech 2 weapons can do it with the right skills and tactics.

We were a small corp and often confronted with largely superior forces. Imagine the massive gate camps with tackler interceptors, interdictors and other ships. Now imagine they are rendered importent by a gang of 15 destroyers with long range weapons. All of their smal craft must flee or die. Tactics prevail.

And the ultimate in possibilites occurred when agony discovered whenever they went out Razor alliance would come after them with 60 HACs. With no more than 20 people online at the time, it was quite the challenge. Imagine the astonishment of our neighbors when the word went out that Agony wiped out almost the entire fleet with less than 20 pilots. Nothing in gaming can top that kind of rush.

When you say you can, when you believe it, you will find a way. When your opponent becomes predictable, they are easy to defeat. When your opponent uses standard tactics, they can be defeated. Defeat wont always be wiping out the whole fleet or destroyeing their POS. It might be just making their lives miserable. When a high sec corp is war deced by another and turns tail, the war dec corps wins. When they fight back with tactics, skill, coordination and goals, they make the war dec corp withdraw their dec with losses and the high sec corp gains respect.

I have no respect for sheep. But i have the highest respect for the small little wolverine that makes the grizly bear think "im not THAT hungry"

In there lies the key. Winning in Eve isnt a matter of skill points or isk. Its a matter of intelligence, understanding of psychology and proficiency at the arts of war.


There's not enough tl;dr in the universe to allow me to adequately express my reaction to this post.
Alaric Faelen
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2013-07-14 02:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
People don't PvP because they cannot lose. The inability to ever lose without it effecting one's self-esteem is a larger issue than just in Eve, but it is the defining line between PvE types and PvP types.
You simply never lose in PvE. Every aspect of it has some cheat sheet website like Eve-Survival, and the forums are full of the 'perfect' fitting for all forms of PvE. You can take a single ship, pimp it out forever and still only have other players (suicide gankers usually) to fear. Worse, in PvE you not only are never in danger but also overwhelm entire flotillas single-handedly.

In PvP you might lose that pimped out ship to a guy in a T1 frigate, within seconds. It SEEMS broken compared to PvE. The gulf between the two is enormous. Often dying and not even knowing how feeds rage posters.

The one thing PvE'ers care about is the one thing lost so easily in PvP. The ship.


Also- this crap only matters to care bears trying to play weekend warrior (try to PvP with Mining skills in your que???) and don't have any friends, so they go solo.

Try flying in a fleet. Then even if YOU die, others may survive and take out your target. You win even in death because your objective was achieved. I only fly in fleets, and often an Interdictor, which is almost surely going to be destroyed early on...but it doesn't matter because my role was fulfilled and success, hopefully, achieved.

See, I have something to fight for....my friends (the rest is video game fluff). Too many people only have kill mails to fight for, and when they don't get any, they get upset. By having friends, socializing in an MMO, and choosing a 'side' in whatever conflict is possible in Eve- I am given a reason to fight beyond kill mails and e-peen waving. I care more about the success of my group of friends than the survival of some stupid space ship.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-07-14 02:57:07 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
In PvP you might lose that pimped out ship to a guy in a T1 frigate, within seconds. It SEEMS broken compared to PvE. The gulf between the two is enormous. Often dying and not even knowing how feeds rage posters.

The one thing PvE'ers care about is the one thing lost so easily in PvP. The ship.


Because they're instructed to "hop in' and just die, die, die.

Where PvErs are taught to avoid death so they can down things like bosses before they enrage or reset.

I play a healer in WoW, and if I go down the raid can all die. There's times where I'm the only healer alive with 1 tank and maybe a DPS and that boss has 30% HP still left.

Do you just accept defeat and call a wipe and waste 25 players time? Or do what you have to do to stay alive and defeat that boss?

Now the m-a-n-y PvPers I've seen in raids, they'd be long dead before that stage because they are used to dying, accept so willingly, and just keel over. I can't afford to die as 25 players depends on me to keep them up. That's the things PvPers (besides healers among them) don't have to worry about, they don't have responsible roles and can fail. They die all is not lost. Responsible roles die, it's over.

It's why PvErs spend so much time getting geared in other MMOs, and getting those important skills leveled in EvE. It's why incursions play differently than your usual roam. Failure isn't an option, too much is at stake.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Q 5
999 HOLDINGS LLC
#54 - 2013-07-14 03:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Q 5
Best spot on post, I don't PVP cause everytime I have I've never won cause they seem ridiculously overpowered no matter how much gank I put in they never get below half of what ever tank they have.

I concluded either they're remote boosted, druggies or both or just better so why try.

That's why for me, including that it's hard to get a 1 vs 1 without 10 KM hore friends showing up.

I've PVP'ed with friends to test each other and guess what, we both we're getting beat and seems to reinforce that combat with others is tilted so again why try.
Rells
Lethal Riposte
#55 - 2013-07-14 04:00:55 UTC
BiscuitMonsterr wrote:


There's not enough tl;dr in the universe to allow me to adequately express my reaction to this post.


I wish you the best in overcoming your Attention Deficit Disorder.
Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis
The Lost Drone Society
#56 - 2013-07-14 04:06:57 UTC
I PVP just fine, I mine every asteroid I can find before others can it. Pirate

I"m not really the Evil One, I'm just his answering service.

Hong WeiLoh
Super Troopers
#57 - 2013-07-14 04:25:37 UTC
*scans other replies*

Well, that degenerated quickly.

*undocks from station in Intaki, leaves neutrals, carebear or otherwise, alone*
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#58 - 2013-07-14 04:42:20 UTC
Rells wrote:
There is one clear reason why people in Eve cant do PvP. The simple reason is because they believe they can't. Once you have made up your mind that something can't be done, you will not be able to do it. You will then be in the grip of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Because you dont think it can be done you wont do your best, you will hold back at critical junctures, hesitate at the important moment or pull back when you should press the attack.

I founded Agony Unleashed with my alt Keersom (RIP) in .. was it 2006? Time flies. For years I captained the corp before turning it over to Bamar who has now passed it on to Gizznitt. During that time we proved conclusively that conventional wisdom was what comes out of the south end of a northbound male bovine. I originally founded Agony because I was sick of being told to get in a big battleship (at the time they were the flavor of the year) and sit at 150km sniping at opponents. I thought that there was a better way to play the game, that frigs could be made to hurt the opponent.

I believe agony was a principal player in changing pvp in eve to make people think more out of the box. We took out classes of people who had never fired at another player. We put them in tech 1 frigs fitted with market cheap stuff and proved to them that if they coordinated their communication, their tactics and their fit, they could destroy opponents with years of skillpoints in massively expensive ships. People constantly tried to use smartbombs on the frig fleets and lost their expensive battleship for their efforts. We flew into null sec space with crowds of rookies and fleets learned to avoid the class gangs. In the process we taught playyers about communication, scouting, recon, ship fitting for teamwork and so on.

At one point a class was started to fly destroyers. The forums flamed like a supernova at the announcement. In the first encounter with an eagle, the covert ops scout dropped us 10km off the eagle and only 3 of my guns went off. The 20 destroyers in the gang, flown by newbie pilots, vaporized the expensive HAC in a single shot. Later the class grew and at one point the 30 destroyer class (near the max manageable limit) got into a fight with multiple battleships and HACs and destroyed them all. Sure they took casualties but all were elated. We remembered to tell the rookie pvp pilots to breathe afterward because we knew the people behind the computers would be shaking from adrenaline.

Later agony pilots fitted up some tech 1 frigs and had a bit of fun. They sat off a gate and waited to be attacked by a passing interceptor. What the interceptor didn't know is the pilot of the frig was waiting for just this occurrence. There is no rush in eve quite equal to killing an interceptor with a tech 1 frig and any pilot that can fit tech 2 weapons can do it with the right skills and tactics.

We were a small corp and often confronted with largely superior forces. Imagine the massive gate camps with tackler interceptors, interdictors and other ships. Now imagine they are rendered importent by a gang of 15 destroyers with long range weapons. All of their smal craft must flee or die. Tactics prevail.

And the ultimate in possibilites occurred when agony discovered whenever they went out Razor alliance would come after them with 60 HACs. With no more than 20 people online at the time, it was quite the challenge. Imagine the astonishment of our neighbors when the word went out that Agony wiped out almost the entire fleet with less than 20 pilots. Nothing in gaming can top that kind of rush.

When you say you can, when you believe it, you will find a way. When your opponent becomes predictable, they are easy to defeat. When your opponent uses standard tactics, they can be defeated. Defeat wont always be wiping out the whole fleet or destroyeing their POS. It might be just making their lives miserable. When a high sec corp is war deced by another and turns tail, the war dec corps wins. When they fight back with tactics, skill, coordination and goals, they make the war dec corp withdraw their dec with losses and the high sec corp gains respect.

I have no respect for sheep. But i have the highest respect for the small little wolverine that makes the grizly bear think "im not THAT hungry"

In there lies the key. Winning in Eve isnt a matter of skill points or isk. Its a matter of intelligence, understanding of psychology and proficiency at the arts of war.




Sometimes I think the paradigms of the game, that there's NO WAY to play this game outside of the choice of carebearing it up in highsec OR "join the nullsec corp and be a slave" is intentional. The forums are always all about "you'll get ganked in 2 jumps!", "They will drop a cap blob on you in mere minutes!!!1!!!".

Bull. These are lies. Nullsec is comparably empty. The "carebears won't leave highsec and they are ruining the game" argument is a strawman tactic to put the blame on the target of the lies. Tell them they can't make it in nullsec (unless they join the liars' corp of course), tell them they can't roam. Tell them they need to spend years grinding for ISK (to buy all those expensive ships that will only get stranded in a station due to SOV changes). Tell them without tens of millions of SP they will lose in 2 seconds... It goes on and one.

How nullsec "works" is built purely on lies.

Highsec has the power to assemble such small fleets and burn entire regions. They can bust the gate camps, send the renters packing, and make those power blocs earn their SOV (or adopt NRDS policies to save their lives).



The OP is right.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jorden Ishonen
Doomheim
#59 - 2013-07-14 07:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorden Ishonen
Arthur Aihaken wrote:


The only one "bleating" here is you. I mean, really - who are you trying to convince?


Probably the dozens of posters on GD who come here and complain about suicide ganking, afk cloaking, losing ships in lowsec, or whatever else caused them to lose their ship and space money. He's trying to convince them to actually do something about it so they can improve their playing experience.

Given that he created an EVE-renowned PvP course (Agony classes are generally filled up far in advance of class time itself), I'd say he has some idea of what it means to be new to PvP and the difference between that and simply being too risk-adverse to PvP. The latter are the sheep, and ironically their unwillingness to risk anything means they become huge loot pinatas more often than not, causing them to lose huge amounts (freighters full of goods, pimped out mission runners) in one go.

You on the other hand, are some random drool stain that I've never heard of before, and likely never will again.

That's what makes EVE great. He matters. You don't. Your actions in the game define you.
Jorden Ishonen
Doomheim
#60 - 2013-07-14 07:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorden Ishonen
Doc Severide wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You're right about one thing though. If that kind of player wants to play EVE, they do have to tolerate PvP players. Because this is their game.
Bullshit, this is not any one persons style of play game. This game has much much more to offer beyond PVP. If it wasn't for lowly miners and manufacturing players, you wouldn't have anything to PVP with. If it wasn't for PVP'ers they wouldn't have anyone to sell their products to. There is a symbiotic relationship between all professions in EVE but too many arrogant PVPers think EVE is only about / for them...


There are a lot of market and industry alts of PvPers out there. In fact, one of the big changes of Odesseys was improving Null manufacturing capability, becuase it's so weak that null players were just rolling highsec industry alts.

So, if every miner and manufacturer left, what would happen is all of the PvP indy alts would get stinking rich. Ship prices would skyrocket, but only for those without alliance or corp building them those ships at cost. So, basically, PvE mission runners.

Fact is, PvP players tend to be more organized and better at working together. That's why PvPers always kill sheep when they trickle one by one like lemmings through a lowsec gate, when they auto-pilot that freighter with no webber friend, when they sit outside the mission stations with hardners off afk.