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Nullsec mexallon shortage

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Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-13 05:12:10 UTC
Just wanted to point out that mexallon is apparently still in short supply out in 0.0, despite gneiss receiving a boost of this mineral. It's still having to be imported, so I would suggest boosting the mexallon portion of gneiss some more, even if some of the other minerals from this ore are reduced a little.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-07-13 05:19:10 UTC
Galphii wrote:
Just wanted to point out that mexallon is apparently still in short supply out in 0.0, despite gneiss receiving a boost of this mineral. It's still having to be imported, so I would suggest boosting the mexallon portion of gneiss some more, even if some of the other minerals from this ore are reduced a little.


I'm fairly certain that the shortage is intentional. It's a far cry from the Tritanium bottleneck so i'm not too worried about it. One JF full of mex just as a mineral would be enough to make lots of components ;)
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-07-13 11:41:35 UTC
It is, and that's happening, but I thought the whole idea of the ore change was to make nullsec independent of Jit - I mean, empire P Not a huge issue to be sure, just wanted to bring it to the devs attention in case this was not intentional.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2013-07-13 12:47:28 UTC
Galphii wrote:
It is, and that's happening, but I thought the whole idea of the ore change was to make nullsec independent of Jit - I mean, empire P Not a huge issue to be sure, just wanted to bring it to the devs attention in case this was not intentional.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't. I'm pretty sure the change was to address value issues between ores to make the higher risk ores somewhat higher rewards even if high end mineral prices were low by having them also drop sufficient low end minerals to make them more valuable regardless. Of course, I may have suffered reading comprehension at the time they were explaining the ore changes.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2013-07-13 14:59:27 UTC
We don't intend any area of space to be completely independent of other areas. I won't rule out changing Mex supply in the future but for now we're not unhappy with what we're seeing.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2013-07-13 21:27:48 UTC
I leave this here...

http://thelazypilot.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/ore-mining-in-null-security-still-needs-changes/

Quote:
Conclusion

These mineral changes CCP released in Odyssey are good, but some problems still persist that need to be fixed like the Mexallon bottleneck and the cluster imbalances and incoherence’s.

A final note, the industry index decay rate needs to be changed. CCP needs to slow down the rate of decay to half so people can have a chance to keep the index above level 3 without killing themselves.

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-07-14 00:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Galphii
Thanks for the answer Fozzie, nice to know it's not an oversight Smile

Edit: Unforgiven storm's post is exceptionally relevant.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
MainDrain
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-15 11:21:42 UTC
Really hope fozzie read that blog. He has really nailed gone through the issues and proposed a good, and easy to implement
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#9 - 2013-07-15 14:15:44 UTC
There will always be a bottleneck somewhere when you are dealing with multiple resources.

Erutpar Ambient wrote:

I'm fairly certain that the shortage is intentional. It's a far cry from the Tritanium bottleneck so i'm not too worried about it. One JF full of mex just as a mineral would be enough to make lots of components ;)


Judging from this post, it is not a huge issue as of now.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-07-15 20:55:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Erutpar Ambient
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We don't intend any area of space to be completely independent of other areas. I won't rule out changing Mex supply in the future but for now we're not unhappy with what we're seeing.


The way you say that leaves room for interpretation. The way I interperate it is "we're not unhappy with what we're seeing, but it wasn't as impactful as we had anticipated.

This is exactly how I feel about it at least. When I saw the changes I almost deficated myself in excitement. But it's been about 6 weeks since the release and prices of the altered minerals haven't changed much. I am still very happy that I don't have to worry about moving extremely large volumes of tritanium and pyreite but by collecting them from the altered ores I am amassing a giant surplus of zydrine and megacyte. This is obviously the overall picture for nullsec mining. Megacyte and zydrine prices are falling and nocxium is skyrocketing. The megacyte I do export is lessvaluable but I also don't have to import any tritanium or pyerite so it sort of balances out to make nullsec mining not as profiable as we'd like but a lot of the tedium has been reduced.

The problem here is that, because of the changes, people are mining ABC and spodumain ore for their tritanium and pyerite when they would have before switched to the low end ore. This means the ratio of megacyte and zydrine collected vs tritanium and pyreite collected is much higher. And the ratio of the demands on the minerals hasn't changed at all (or at least significantly.)

Its just one of those unintended consequences.

I'm sure you guys have some plan to address this, or I might have a few nice ideas If you'd like to hear them.
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-07-19 14:49:40 UTC
I look forward to the time when highsec is not independent from low or null though.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-19 14:59:02 UTC
Galphii wrote:
Just wanted to point out that mexallon is apparently still in short supply out in 0.0, despite gneiss receiving a boost of this mineral. It's still having to be imported, so I would suggest boosting the mexallon portion of gneiss some more, even if some of the other minerals from this ore are reduced a little.



This only means there aren't enough miners in null sec, you need to recruit more miners or find corp/alliance dudes to do it with you.

Null minerals got a huge buff lately, no need more buffs to those but instead more people mining them.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Treya Amoncarde
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-07-19 16:18:06 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Galphii wrote:
Just wanted to point out that mexallon is apparently still in short supply out in 0.0, despite gneiss receiving a boost of this mineral. It's still having to be imported, so I would suggest boosting the mexallon portion of gneiss some more, even if some of the other minerals from this ore are reduced a little.



This only means there aren't enough miners in null sec, you need to recruit more miners or find corp/alliance dudes to do it with you.

Null minerals got a huge buff lately, no need more buffs to those but instead more people mining them.



That would require Null-Sec alliances and corps to actually do something other than shoot at each other. :P It is still cost effective to have a High-Sec mining operation and have the ores imported using blockade runners or jump freighters so long as you know what you are doing and don't **** it up.
Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#14 - 2013-07-19 16:29:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We don't intend any area of space to be completely independent of other areas. I won't rule out changing Mex supply in the future but for now we're not unhappy with what we're seeing.


I hope theres not another nullbear mineral welfare program in the works.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-07-19 17:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Treya Amoncarde wrote:
That would require Null-Sec alliances and corps to actually do something other than shoot at each other. :P


Indeed but this is all about player made content, it's their problem if they don't have enough miners and it's all up to them to do what it takes to solve that problem.

CCP recently buffed null sec ores, not a light buff but a huge buff so now what are these tears about? -they want minerals to magically appear in their hangars too?
It's a bit like low sec pubbies always crying about little pvp and claiming more rewards when they're clearly the cause of all their problems despite all successive buffs, low sec is still a waste land

So in short, they have the tools up to them to unfuck themselves, get their fingers out of the hole that never sees the sun and do something about their important issues.


Treya Amoncarde wrote:
It is still cost effective to have a High-Sec mining operation and have the ores imported using blockade runners or jump freighters so long as you know what you are doing and don't **** it up.



Yes because despite the successive high sec nerfs and null sec mining buffs moaning idiots remain moaning idiots unable to unfuck themselves.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Rush Kenni
Deltia Defense Force
#16 - 2013-07-19 18:35:21 UTC
Moon goo, access to all mineral types with the best ISK per hour, and ratting that's worth doing is what Null sec has right now. Unless over 80% of all the belts and scan sites are completely mined out of all rocks that have mexallon regularly, the only problem I see is a bunch of whiners who don't want to make use of what they have. Considering that many people complain about space in null being empty and unused, I really doubt that there is no mexallon to mine out there.

If you want to whine about having to import resources, try manufacturing in high sec. T3 materials has to be imported from WH, moon goo has to be imported from low and null, and almost all high ends minerals have to be imported from everywhere else.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-07-19 19:07:16 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
I look forward to the time when highsec is not independent from low or null though.


I'm sorry, have you tried opening your eyes?

Have you seen a T2 ship or mod before? How about pirate faction ships/gear? T3's? Guess what - none of those items come from highsec. To build anything T2, you need components built from moon goo. Moon goo which is only available in lowsec or nullsec - you can't mine it in highsec. Aside from frigates and small items, all pirate faction stuff comes from either lowsec or nullsec. Much of the faction gear also comes from lowsec (FW). All components needed for T3's also comes from WH space, aside from the few minerals needed which can come from any sapce. To top it all off, all the higher end ores are only found in WH/null, but are needed just to build T1 ships. Admittedly, much of that can come from reprocessing, but most of it comes from null.

So no, highsec is not independent from low or null. That doesn't mean that people in highsec need to go to low/null, but components for most of the things in industry come from there.

-Arazel
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-07-22 18:44:39 UTC
Rush Kenni wrote:
Moon goo, access to all mineral types with the best ISK per hour, and ratting that's worth doing is what Null sec has right now. Unless over 80% of all the belts and scan sites are completely mined out of all rocks that have mexallon regularly, the only problem I see is a bunch of whiners who don't want to make use of what they have. Considering that many people complain about space in null being empty and unused, I really doubt that there is no mexallon to mine out there.

If you want to whine about having to import resources, try manufacturing in high sec. T3 materials has to be imported from WH, moon goo has to be imported from low and null, and almost all high ends minerals have to be imported from everywhere else.


The biggest problem is really the ratio of minerals in Nullsec space. Sure if you have a lot of people mining in null you can flip asteroid clusters consistantly and get those minerals that you need. But to flip a cluster you have to mine out everything including the stuff you Don't need. And what do you do with this excess? Obviously send it to high sec to sell. Of course by doing this constantly the demand for those minerals drops, and with decreased demand comes decreased value. So by having megacyte and zydrine so abundant compared to the rest of the minerals, their value has decreased significantly over time.

As for moon goo and T3 materials. Well look at those and remember how they're obtained. The average null sec dweller or renter alliance is not doing so well compared to their WH counter parts.
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#19 - 2013-07-24 15:20:22 UTC
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:
I look forward to the time when highsec is not independent from low or null though.


Because highsec has a massive supply of megacyte/zydrine/nocxium and moon goo to support itself with no help from any other space.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#20 - 2013-07-24 16:11:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We don't intend any area of space to be completely independent of other areas. I won't rule out changing Mex supply in the future but for now we're not unhappy with what we're seeing.

I agree,
Some people are just never happy. We have gone from a massive bottleneck of tritanium and pyrite, to an much more manageable bottleneck of Mexallon. That is a massive improvement. No more jump freighter loads of 425mm rail guns.

Now if we could just get random gravametric sites returned, Odyssey would be a perfect expansion.
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