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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Star mining

Author
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#1 - 2013-07-11 23:45:49 UTC
Does anyone think that mining stars for T2 capital ammo production is a good idea?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-07-12 10:27:56 UTC
No, not really.
Daugar Draaken
EBSTF Holdings
#3 - 2013-07-12 15:00:32 UTC
CCP might consider this design feature in the (real world) year 2027, right after the game allows for corporations to construct Dyson Spheres.

Too big.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-07-12 16:12:29 UTC
Constructing a dyson sphere type "machine" to harvest the radiation and matter/charged particles thrown off by a star doesn't strike me as all that efficient or effective a way to "mine" a star. What you really want to do is design a ship capable of descending past the photosphere, and perhaps even deeper, to get at "heavier," and potentially more exotic/rare, elements that haven't been blown off the surface of the star.

Of course ideally you would also want to set up a method of powering a jump bridge, or a small scale intra-system version of one, via the energy surrounding said vessel so that it can pump this "star matter" right out of the star without having to constantly traverse the photosphere. Stephen Baxter's novel "Ring" describes a similar project whereby a probe of sorts is launched into our star in order to observe what is going on to unnaturally shorten its lifespan. This probe is able to survive in this hostile environment due to being able to "transport" much of the surrounding energy/radiation/whatnot to a receiver around, IIRC, Mercury's orbit where it's blasted into space.

Given some of the things that the "people" of New Eden are capable of doing, especially the Jovians, "sun mining" is certainly plausible, but to be honest I wouldn't expect to see it useful for anything short of T4 production, and given that CCP has yet to start rebalancing (or rather pushing out rebalancing patches for) T2 ships and really needs to rebalance T3 cruisers as well I wouldn't expect T4 ships to be released in less than a couple of years.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-07-12 16:19:29 UTC
I dunno, if star mining was centered into bottlenecks it would certainly be fun to have supercap fleets dish it out so close to a star they get damaged by the heat and magnetic fields. But try to reimagine the idea from the perspective of what emotion do you want to incite? Just another asteroid for carebears to stare at or something shiny to fight over that causes horror and demise because of solar eruptions?
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#6 - 2013-07-12 17:36:22 UTC
It was star matter that powered Jamyl Sarum's super weapon that she used to fire on the Minmatar fleet. That fleet was devastated so the substance must be powerful in its own right.

That said, what else could be more appropriate to power the most powerful weapons in the game?

The only thing that would outperform T2 capital weapons would be a T2 doomsday... Maybe it should be used with those?

Star mining has allot ideas already so I was just wondering what you'd do with the stuff you mined.
Shiera Kuni
Electric Machete
#7 - 2013-07-12 17:49:19 UTC
Actually, if I recall correctly, Jamyl's super weapon was powered by Isogen-5 which, while rare, is not solely limited to stars. However, it's an extremely volatile mineral that takes highly specialized methods to even harvest. It would -not- be ideal for capital ammo, but does hold promise as, say.. an energy source. With star 'mining', you're more likely to find super-dense metals, never before seen radioactive isotopes, and things we can't even classify yet. However, to even be able to GET to these elements, whatever apparatus you construct would need to be able to withstand more heat and pressure than that of Unobtainium (The Core, lawls). Not only that, it would have to be automated and absolutely IMMENSE, stretching from below the surface of the star to well outside of the photosphere and shielded enough to allow for specialized mining vessels to navigate its inner confines without being melted just from the proximity.

CCP Falcon:  This thread is terrible.

supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#8 - 2013-07-12 17:52:28 UTC
Shiera Kuni wrote:
Actually, if I recall correctly, Jamyl's super weapon was powered by Isogen-5 which, while rare, is not solely limited to stars. However, it's an extremely volatile mineral that takes highly specialized methods to even harvest. It would -not- be ideal for capital ammo, but does hold promise as, say.. an energy source. With star 'mining', you're more likely to find super-dense metals, never before seen radioactive isotopes, and things we can't even classify yet. However, to even be able to GET to these elements, whatever apparatus you construct would need to be able to withstand more heat and pressure than that of Unobtainium (The Core, lawls). Not only that, it would have to be automated and absolutely IMMENSE, stretching from below the surface of the star to well outside of the photosphere and shielded enough to allow for specialized mining vessels to navigate its inner confines without being melted just from the proximity.


Any theory on how those drones managed to get the isogen-5? Haven't heard any myself.
Shiera Kuni
Electric Machete
#9 - 2013-07-12 17:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiera Kuni
Rogue drones are continually evolving creatures that lack the moral conscience and mortal fear that humans inherently have, which allows them to experiment relentlessly on themselves, sacrificing individual units for the hive. As they are a hive mind, any data collected by a single unit, even at its 'death' improves the whole. Chances are, the rogue drones continuously experimented on individual drones going out into the field until they cracked the secret.

EDIT: As for where they got it, presumably from a deadspace. If there is a drone out there that can withstand the intense heat of a star, my lasers haven't found it yet.

CCP Falcon:  This thread is terrible.

Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-07-12 18:23:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Maybe "mining" is not the right word, maybe the star is just the energy source for some other process? So certain things need to be made in close proximity to a certain type star. Refining springs to mind, and to produce fuel for the powercores of the ships. Antimatter for the amarr powercores, extremely radioactive substances that decay extremely fast (way faster than plutonium) for the fission cores, helium-3 for the fusion cores. If just the graviton reactor is removed and replaced by anti-matter reactor, and then the Amarr get singularity reactor in place of their current anti-matter reactor we'd be set. (singularity reactor is a tiny miniature black hole which is then used as a gravity-well that compresses helium-3 until it heats up enough to start the fusion process, this would require far less sofisticated magnetic containment, but would be heavier than the other power cores, giving another reason to Amarr slowness).
We add fuel consumption to normal ships (not hugely expensive for small ships, but for BS and up it gets pricey). Then the new star mining thing would be needed to fly ships, and would be a considerable bottleneck for null sec confrontations.

PS: the graviton reactor must be removed because it can't even in theory generate power as far I know.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#11 - 2013-07-12 18:35:34 UTC
supernova ranger wrote:


Any theory on how those drones managed to get the isogen-5? Haven't heard any myself.


As I recall the books describe that Isogen-5 was harvested by the original humans that colonized new Eden several hundred thousand years ago. The secrets behind Isogen-5 Production has since been lost, but apparently there were some rogue drones who found it inside a wrecked colonial station in 0.0 space somewhere in blood raider space (OFC Delve has all the valuable resources!)

This then was mined and protected by rogue drones.

But that's all from memory, I haven't read the Empyrian Age in.. well an Empyrian age...
Shiera Kuni
Electric Machete
#12 - 2013-07-12 18:40:47 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
PS: the graviton reactor must be removed because it can't even in theory generate power as far I know.


Psh, you just don't believe hard enough. Pfft, get it? Believe? It's the Amarrians power source? Ah, I kill me.

CCP Falcon:  This thread is terrible.

Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-07-12 19:49:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Shiera Kuni wrote:
Ronny Hugo wrote:
PS: the graviton reactor must be removed because it can't even in theory generate power as far I know.


Psh, you just don't believe hard enough. Pfft, get it? Believe? It's the Amarrians power source? Ah, I kill me.

Anti-matter is the Amarrian power-storage (energy is required to produce anti-matter, but once produced its a very efficient form of stored energy). Maybe faith is what they use as an energy source, but we all know willpower is the greatest source of energy in the universe Blink (I hope you get that reference)

PS: Anti-matter is THE most efficient power core, so efficient compared with fission and fusion that Amarr ships should do laps around the rest even with twice as much armor. That's why I have problems with the current distribution of power cores.
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#14 - 2013-07-12 19:53:20 UTC
Shiera Kuni wrote:
Ronny Hugo wrote:
PS: the graviton reactor must be removed because it can't even in theory generate power as far I know.


Psh, you just don't believe hard enough. Pfft, get it? Believe? It's the Amarrians power source? Ah, I kill me.


Darn, you got to you first.

There are some seriously powerful elements missing from the lore in the game and Isogen-5 I believe is the strongest of all the missing links.
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#15 - 2013-07-12 19:55:34 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
Shiera Kuni wrote:
Ronny Hugo wrote:
PS: the graviton reactor must be removed because it can't even in theory generate power as far I know.


Psh, you just don't believe hard enough. Pfft, get it? Believe? It's the Amarrians power source? Ah, I kill me.

Anti-matter is the Amarrian power-storage (energy is required to produce anti-matter, but once produced its a very efficient form of stored energy). Maybe faith is what they use as an energy source, but we all know willpower is the greatest source of energy in the universe Blink (I hope you get that reference)

PS: Anti-matter is THE most efficient power core, so efficient compared with fission and fusion that Amarr ships should do laps around the rest even with twice as much armor. That's why I have problems with the current distribution of power cores.


I'll never have one of my characters wear an outfit like those guys

:|
Adunh Slavy
#16 - 2013-07-12 20:15:13 UTC
Instead of mining stars, perhaps mine mass ejections. Of course we don't mine coments yet either, so don't hold your breath

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Shiera Kuni
Electric Machete
#17 - 2013-07-12 20:24:30 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Instead of mining stars, perhaps mine mass ejections. Of course we don't mine coments yet either, so don't hold your breath


I mine comments all the time, for delicious syllables.

CCP Falcon:  This thread is terrible.