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September 8th patch, what's new

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#61 - 2011-11-09 16:12:47 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Untelo1 wrote:
Hey thats pretty cool. But on the subject of turret effects, could you change shooting at a shielded POS, so that you actually hit where the line drawn between your ship and the tower intersects the shield? We are shooting at the shield after all.


PLEASE THIS

To make it work, but still have the ships and modules actually in the shield, it should work like:

- POS is in shield : weapons contact on the shield edge
- POS is in armour / structure : shield is still up, but "flickering" (or similar) which essentially means ships can't pass through, but at this point weapons visually impact the tower itself.


Im not quite sure what you are asking for here. You do know that the bubble about a POS is not its shield? Its a force field that bounces ships and stops weapon locks, but does not stop damage from penetrating. The tower's shields are the normal form-fitting shields like ships have. In fact if a tower runs out of fuel the force field bubble goes down but the tower still has full shields.

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Severian Carnifex
#62 - 2011-11-09 16:15:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Severian Carnifex
bornaa wrote:
Idea IDEA: Idea
client allready have data from server is it missed, perfect shot, light shot, scratch...
why not use that... perfect shots shot where it shot now (in middle of the ship) all other have some offset by the data given.. so it hits a little up/down/left/right from center... that way we visually have few groups of offsets and not all shots hit in perfect middle of the ship when it hits... Big smile



Nice proposal Attention
CCP, look at it please. Attention
CCP Choloepus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#63 - 2011-11-09 17:47:58 UTC
Thanks for the ideas and feedback, all!

Specifically on the turret misses, some great stuff here.

bornaa wrote:
Idea IDEA: Idea
client allready have data from server is it missed, perfect shot, light shot, scratch...
why not use that... perfect shots shot where it shot now (in middle of the ship) all other have some offset by the data given.. so it hits a little up/down/left/right from center... that way we visually have few groups of offsets and not all shots hit in perfect middle of the ship when it hits... Big smile


As Khanh'rhh correctly notes:

Khanh'rhh wrote:
Banechild wrote:
Clanden wrote:
So if they can miss visually now, how about hits being placed randomly on the ship instead of perfect mathematical center?


That would require a lot more work I think, but would be nice to have different hit boxes around the ship.


Turret weapons already have multiple points on each model they can strike. It's only missiles that hit the exact centre.


Annoyingly, the smaller models have relatively few such impact points so this doesn't work very well when attacking frigates, for example. It is quite possible that we can add more impact points to every model to support this kind of thing, if performance is good. We'd also love to have more meaty effects at the hit location when you get a wrecking shot or similar.

But these kind of changes involve additional artwork and content adjustments, so they'll need to be properly investigated before we can commit to adding them. Rest assured we want to see things like this though!
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-11-09 18:00:52 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Annoyingly, the smaller models have relatively few such impact points so this doesn't work very well when attacking frigates, for example.


Yes, but if 8x 1400mm slugs hit a Frigate, you only need one hitbox -- "all of it". It should lose orbit and start spinning around though....
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2011-11-09 18:15:53 UTC
Is it possible to have effects that show the current status of ships?


  • On the topic of explosions after a shot hits a ship why not have this relating to what the shot is hitting shield/armor/hull. Shields deflection explosions, armor plates taking the impact from the hit.

  • Another would be when the ship loses either shield or armor integrity having an explosion which other pilots can see (small victory) and allowing either sides pilots to react to the changes in the condition of ship (logistics or focusing dps on the damaged ship)
    • -->Shield dissipates | Blue electromagnetic explosion emitted from the ship
    -->Armor integrity loss | Armor pieces break from ship and fly through space


These effects would be visual indicators for other pilots to give the status of the ships that are not targeting it.
Falrec
Dremor Engineering inc.
#66 - 2011-11-09 18:23:34 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:

-->Armor integrity loss | Armor pieces break from ship and fly through space

or just an explosion, that gives way to a fire (and smoke that goes with it).


However, do this for all the ships could create lag, it would be better to do it only for ships that are in watchlist, those who have been locked and our own ship.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#67 - 2011-11-09 19:26:25 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Untelo1 wrote:
Hey thats pretty cool. But on the subject of turret effects, could you change shooting at a shielded POS, so that you actually hit where the line drawn between your ship and the tower intersects the shield? We are shooting at the shield after all.


PLEASE THIS

To make it work, but still have the ships and modules actually in the shield, it should work like:

- POS is in shield : weapons contact on the shield edge
- POS is in armour / structure : shield is still up, but "flickering" (or similar) which essentially means ships can't pass through, but at this point weapons visually impact the tower itself.


Im not quite sure what you are asking for here. You do know that the bubble about a POS is not its shield? Its a force field that bounces ships and stops weapon locks, but does not stop damage from penetrating. The tower's shields are the normal form-fitting shields like ships have. In fact if a tower runs out of fuel the force field bubble goes down but the tower still has full shields.

This sounds like a "lore" argument to me, one put in place to support the fact we currently see the weapons hitting the tower, not the "bubble."
I've also NEVER seen it used in game. For instance - the field you enter the password into, to pass through the "bubble" is "force field password"

It also does stop damage from penetrating - try hitting a ship within the POS bubble with, say, a bomb.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#68 - 2011-11-09 19:26:49 UTC
I liked the old I-war hit effects.

If a shot hit the shields, it was a bright purple flash.
If a shot hit the hull, it was a small explosion.

This could make a fairly simple system for EvE too.

A hit in the shields results in a (racial colour) flash.
A hit in the armour results in a explosion on the side and some shrapnel.
A hit in the hull goes through the model and creates explosions on both entry and exit point plus a fire like now.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.
Shanlara
Weatherlight Industry
#69 - 2011-11-09 20:16:51 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:

Annoyingly, the smaller models have relatively few such impact points so this doesn't work very well when attacking frigates, for example. It is quite possible that we can add more impact points to every model to support this kind of thing, if performance is good. We'd also love to have more meaty effects at the hit location when you get a wrecking shot or similar.

But these kind of changes involve additional artwork and content adjustments, so they'll need to be properly investigated before we can commit to adding them. Rest assured we want to see things like this though!


On this subject, I allways wondered, since I started playing a 07, where shield effects was... well much different, they where giving more the illusiion of being a bubble around your ship as we know it from common sci-fi, and now it's like shield more is trying to give you the idea of your ship wearing tight leather, is there any plans or thoughts about going back to the more standard shield look ? and possible impact graphic on said shield ?

Also I know i'm not a scientist, but I think making a shield that's not somewhat somewhat round in shape is either extremely hard or impossible, just the idea I gotten from it, but in any case I think it would be really nice to have the "real/known" shield illusion of a bubble back in the game, the current effect don't makes me think I got a shield, rather some shimmering light effect on my shield.
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2011-11-09 20:56:33 UTC
Shanlara wrote:
CCP Choloepus wrote:

Annoyingly, the smaller models have relatively few such impact points so this doesn't work very well when attacking frigates, for example. It is quite possible that we can add more impact points to every model to support this kind of thing, if performance is good. We'd also love to have more meaty effects at the hit location when you get a wrecking shot or similar.

But these kind of changes involve additional artwork and content adjustments, so they'll need to be properly investigated before we can commit to adding them. Rest assured we want to see things like this though!


On this subject, I allways wondered, since I started playing a 07, where shield effects was... well much different, they where giving more the illusiion of being a bubble around your ship as we know it from common sci-fi, and now it's like shield more is trying to give you the idea of your ship wearing tight leather, is there any plans or thoughts about going back to the more standard shield look ? and possible impact graphic on said shield ?

Also I know i'm not a scientist, but I think making a shield that's not somewhat somewhat round in shape is either extremely hard or impossible, just the idea I gotten from it, but in any case I think it would be really nice to have the "real/known" shield illusion of a bubble back in the game, the current effect don't makes me think I got a shield, rather some shimmering light effect on my shield.


--This is slightly off-topic but interesting all the same. The way I look at a shield is a device that uses energy to cancel out the energy from incoming projectiles or energy weapon. To have a bubble effect you would have to have a projected field or more like eve ships where the shield is like an electrical current moving through a circuits in the in ships hull producing a field inches from the hull of the ship.

--If you want a projected sphere shield (POS shield) would use more energy due to the distance projected whilst a shield several inches from the hull would use less energy to project and would be stronger due to the proximity of the ship.

--On the subject I would like a slight blue glow around the silhouette ship; the darker the blue the larger the remaining shield. As you rotate around the view of shield would remain on the outline of ship and therefor the image of the ship would not have to filter through the shield effect.
Shanlara
Weatherlight Industry
#71 - 2011-11-09 21:17:44 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:


--This is slightly off-topic but interesting all the same. The way I look at a shield is a device that uses energy to cancel out the energy from incoming projectiles or energy weapon. To have a bubble effect you would have to have a projected field or more like eve ships where the shield is like an electrical current moving through a circuits in the in ships hull producing a field inches from the hull of the ship.

--If you want a projected sphere shield (POS shield) would use more energy due to the distance projected whilst a shield several inches from the hull would use less energy to project and would be stronger due to the proximity of the ship.

--On the subject I would like a slight blue glow around the silhouette ship; the darker the blue the larger the remaining shield. As you rotate around the view of shield would remain on the outline of ship and therefor the image of the ship would not have to filter through the shield effect.


You make some good points, and I can get behind the thoughts, but I think we both agree on one thing, it would be nice to get a more visual feel of the shield, rather then some shimmering light when hardeners and boosters are running.
Logan LaMort
Screaming Hayabusa
#72 - 2011-11-09 21:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Logan LaMort
Strata Maslav wrote:

--On the subject I would like a slight blue glow around the silhouette ship; the darker the blue the larger the remaining shield. As you rotate around the view of shield would remain on the outline of ship and therefor the image of the ship would not have to filter through the shield effect.


I was actually think about this yesterday, except I was thinking tie it to weapons hitting your shield. So if you get shot at with shield left, the hit effect causes a kind of blue crackling effect a few inches above the ship.

Weapons hitting armour would be a different effect, like a physical kind of damage with shards of armour being thrown up.

Hull would cause more explosive looking damage.

EDIT: To clarify, I believe all EVE ships have a built in shield that shouldn't be as visible because it's not very powerful. Ships with shield mods should have a more pronounced shield effect.
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2011-11-09 21:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Strata Maslav
Keras Authion wrote:
I liked the old I-war hit effects.

If a shot hit the shields, it was a bright purple flash.
If a shot hit the hull, it was a small explosion.

This could make a fairly simple system for EvE too.

A hit in the shields results in a (racial colour) flash.
A hit in the armour results in a explosion on the side and some shrapnel.
A hit in the hull goes through the model and creates explosions on both entry and exit point plus a fire like now.


--CCP has made several moves away from right click menu based flying with the new hotkeys allowing you to orbit approach a ship by holding a specific hot-key (amazing). These allow for better reactionary piloting while being able to actually look at the ships you have engaged. The addition to the visuals showing misses and hits is another step in the general direction of flying based on feeling rather then numbers. *Seeing a ship physically missing you is a very good indication of well you are doing.*

--Currently there are graphical visuals that show several effects on the ship, the ship lighting up on the surface to show the use of hardeners etc. These are very subtle effects and requires you to take your focus from the fight to the ship ( is dangerous in fights due to the requirement for a pilot to be constantly watching his own ship).

--Having visuals that give you more information would be very useful in the heat battle. These effects should allow a commander to see the status of ships within his fleet as well as the enemy and enable him to make more informed orders to his subordinates.

You want to reward people looking at the ships flying in space not solely the numbers ticking by on the interface.

End with cheesy quote:
Knowledge is Power
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#74 - 2011-11-09 23:14:19 UTC
I posted these suggestions about how to make missed shots even more awesome in GD.

Quote:
CCP, for some extra polish, you should find a way to stop turret animations tracking inappropriately. For example, if shoot at a ship that's orbiting me at high speed with artillery, the path of the firing animation will track the target in a way that just doesn't make sense. The only weapons that it makes sense for are lasers.

It also looks a bit odd when lasers miss their target, for the entire duration of each laser beam 'burst' to be fixed relative to the target. What would look infinitely more awesome would be for the beams to strafe around the target, as if they were trying to find their bead. For blasters, rails, ACs and artillery, shots should just continue in the direction they were fired in for the duration of the animation.

Of course, I'm being finickity and what you've done is fantastic. But there's always room for improvement...


Choloepus, is this something that could be looked at in future?
Bunzan Cardinal
The Salty Inquisition
#75 - 2011-11-09 23:19:55 UTC
I didnt want to make a new thread and this seemed like a good place to ask this, but are there any changes to AFs on sisi? The dev blog that layed out everything going to be changed in the winter expansion mentioned something about AFs but i havent seen one thread on them at all in this forum.
Pyre leFay
Doomheim
#76 - 2011-11-09 23:25:03 UTC
People pointed out inconsistency with turret tracking graphically and reality. However all turrets are instant damage. If you change the visual look or say artillery leading a target. it will still look odd. It's fine as is. I do like the waving laser miss idea though, even if it *hits* a ship, the point of a laser is to focus the beam to heat a specific point for the duration so beams that waggle with a miss sounds neat.
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2011-11-10 00:34:28 UTC
Bunzan Cardinal wrote:
I didnt want to make a new thread and this seemed like a good place to ask this, but are there any changes to AFs on sisi? The dev blog that layed out everything going to be changed in the winter expansion mentioned something about AFs but i havent seen one thread on them at all in this forum.


Link to Dev Post on AF


CCP Navigator wrote:
ACE McFACE wrote:
CCP has stated that the Assault Frigate buff has been posponed and wont be out during the first part of the Winter expansion

Link


Being the bearer of bad news sucks Sad

I do know that CCP Soundwave and the game designers have really added a lot of great fixes and content to this expansion. Assault Frigates are really high on their list for later in Winter and, as soon as we have something concrete, we will want to be the bearer of good news.
Bunzan Cardinal
The Salty Inquisition
#78 - 2011-11-10 04:28:36 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:
Bunzan Cardinal wrote:
I didnt want to make a new thread and this seemed like a good place to ask this, but are there any changes to AFs on sisi? The dev blog that layed out everything going to be changed in the winter expansion mentioned something about AFs but i havent seen one thread on them at all in this forum.


Link to Dev Post on AF


CCP Navigator wrote:
ACE McFACE wrote:
CCP has stated that the Assault Frigate buff has been posponed and wont be out during the first part of the Winter expansion

Link


Being the bearer of bad news sucks Sad

I do know that CCP Soundwave and the game designers have really added a lot of great fixes and content to this expansion. Assault Frigates are really high on their list for later in Winter and, as soon as we have something concrete, we will want to be the bearer of good news.



wow that sucks... last time they were going to do something to AFs they decided against it, this is very disapointing to hear, i hope they dont postpone or cancel this update again like last time.