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Revenant kill in the news
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Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2013-07-11 18:34:39 UTC
Six Six Six wrote:

You're not allowed to sell items from within the game for real money. Someone paying real money for something in-game gets an in-game item that is worthless, more worthless than a piece of coal. Plus they have the added benefit of being banned.


You're not allowed to sell coke, either. Are you telling me a brick of coke is worthless?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#82 - 2013-07-11 18:45:55 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
OMG on those comments below article:

"I imagine the owner of this virtual ship probably doesn't have a girlfriend."
"That 9k could have made sweet upgrades in his parents' basement that he is living in."
"If someone spends $9,000 on a video game spaceship, it would be my pleasure to help destroy him."
"All virgins."
"This is why I hate pay to win games. That and I would never spend money on anything but the game itself."
"A dude spends $9,000 on a video game. Wow! That is POWERFUL stupid!"

And that's folks, is how misunderstandings are born. Roll Some readers just cant distinguish "worth of 9k" between "paid 9k for it"

but some of them are good:
"Some people's hobbies are "dumb" and worthless to others. The same thing we Gamers think of smokers and bar hoppers.To me video gaming is just fun!"
"A bad day playing eve online is still better then a good day at the office......"
""The only difference 'tween the men and the boys is the size of their feet and the price of their toys...""




I would expect no less from people who:

- Think they don't pay taxes because they got a tax refund check (run the numbers, it's because the gov deducted too much during the year)
- Think licensed firearms dealers don't have to use a background check and transfer paperwork just because they are "at a gun show" (check the laws. If a licensed dealer does that, they risk losing that license and even jail time)
- Think you can walk into any gun store and buy a machine gun just like they do on TV (that has not been possible since 1934 - and even then it was not common)
- Think that if you don't have a big fat gut and you are over 30 years of age it means you are a homosexual.
- Think that exchanging bankster puppet A with bankster puppet B every other election cycle actually changes things (their votes don't matter)
- Think that if they don't get their repenting and lurch in the church on Sunday they will automagically and uncontrollably sin during the week (no **** I was told this once by someone who was dead serious).
- Think that a journalist or whistleblower who turns up dead via explosion or multiple gunshots to the head is a suicide because the news said so.



So yeah, the comments section of such an article are bound to be full of stupid.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#83 - 2013-07-11 18:47:07 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:

You're not allowed to sell items from within the game for real money. Someone paying real money for something in-game gets an in-game item that is worthless, more worthless than a piece of coal. Plus they have the added benefit of being banned.


You're not allowed to sell coke, either. Are you telling me a brick of coke is worthless?


It's worthless to me. It has a street value but again it's what someone is willing to pay for it and they will pay over the odds for it.



In EVE, you have an account, you can use that account and everything attached to that account, but you don't own what's on that account. It's your character as you developed it but you don't own it.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-07-12 00:00:17 UTC
Six Six Six wrote:
In EVE, you have an account, you can use that account and everything attached to that account, but you don't own what's on that account. It's your character as you developed it but you don't own it.


You do however, control access over 'your' account; and that access is sometimes sold by less than reputable people for real world dolla dolla.
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#85 - 2013-07-12 11:08:54 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:
In EVE, you have an account, you can use that account and everything attached to that account, but you don't own what's on that account. It's your character as you developed it but you don't own it.


You do however, control access over 'your' account; and that access is sometimes sold by less than reputable people for real world dolla dolla.




There again they are only buying access to a game via that account and the use of what is on that account and face a ban if caught. The items in-game still remain worthless.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-07-12 11:17:04 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
... there's an equivalence between plex and isk, yeah... but no one ever buys a ship for money like that... right?right?


Eve history seems to show the contrary, it's not aloud, it's not cool yadaya but Eve and RMT is not really hard to find articles and offers about this.

Just don't do it.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
symolan
BamBam Inc.
#87 - 2013-07-12 11:36:28 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:

Wrong.

At least one person at one time, somewhere, somehow, for some reason must have been stupid enough to sink that much money into this game at once thinking it would make him unbeatable..


Assumption or knowledge?
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#88 - 2013-07-12 11:44:32 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
GreenSeed wrote:
... there's an equivalence between plex and isk, yeah... but no one ever buys a ship for money like that... right?right?


Eve history seems to show the contrary, it's not aloud, it's not cool yadaya but Eve and RMT is not really hard to find articles and offers about this.

Just don't do it.



People spend cash to get access to ships, but they don't own those ships they just have the use of them.


PLEX is like a gift card worth something until it's used. You use PLEX when you redeem it, at that point it enters the game.

You don't own items in-game including isk you just pay a subscription for their use.

CCP can't afford to have people owning things in-game it could make it very complex if for some reason they just stopped the game indefinitely. Especially if people considered they had large sums of money of their own in-game. With everything being worthless in-game and belonging to CCP they would have no such problem especially as all players have agreed to their terms.
symolan
BamBam Inc.
#89 - 2013-07-12 11:50:44 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Gnaw LF wrote:

Of course it has "Real Life" value, or lets call it cash value as that is what you use to buy it.


The moment that the PLEX enters the game it has exactly 0 "cash value" - you can't get any amount of RL cash for it.

You have to realize what you buy with your cash: You don't buy items - you save yourself grinding time. If you have a 100M/hour activity in eve, you saved 5 hours of grinding time when you sell a PLEX bought for RL cash. But you can't reverse the transaction - grinding 5 hours will only get you the PLEX, not the RL cash.


great to see someone care for semantics.

it borders on pedantic however.

If I wanted to buy me the ship on day 1 of my EVE carreer, what would I need to do? I'd have to buy PLEX for few thousand dollars, then I'd buy the ship (and then I'd notice that I can't fly it and ragequit)...

so, there's quite a straight line from dollars to ship. straight enough for the rest of the world to see a connection. If some lawyers don't get it cause in their world everything's special anyway...
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2013-07-12 12:15:03 UTC
Six Six Six wrote:
CCP can't afford to have people owning things in-game it could make it very complex if for some reason they just stopped the game indefinitely. Especially if people considered they had large sums of money of their own in-game. With everything being worthless in-game and belonging to CCP they would have no such problem especially as all players have agreed to their terms.


It's why games like EvE is considered unregulated gambling.

They can do what they can to snuff out RMT, but there's consequences for opening up that door for quick cash, and when folks have spent serious RL money on items.

Virtual ownership of assets doesn't sit well with people. Owning a car on paper or half a car in RL in nonsense, and you bet the argument is if they spent the money for it, it is their property. And in RL it is. Plenty of consumer protection laws.

CCP and these other game companies are riding a very fine line because internet law is so new. But in the Far East they're getting the RMT laws on the books and they're favoring the players. And it's to protect people from fly by night scamming entities. Iceland is a nice country, but Iceland is also where perps go to escape international law, too.

Think about it.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#91 - 2013-07-12 12:22:36 UTC
symolan wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Gnaw LF wrote:

Of course it has "Real Life" value, or lets call it cash value as that is what you use to buy it.


The moment that the PLEX enters the game it has exactly 0 "cash value" - you can't get any amount of RL cash for it.

You have to realize what you buy with your cash: You don't buy items - you save yourself grinding time. If you have a 100M/hour activity in eve, you saved 5 hours of grinding time when you sell a PLEX bought for RL cash. But you can't reverse the transaction - grinding 5 hours will only get you the PLEX, not the RL cash.


great to see someone care for semantics.

it borders on pedantic however.

If I wanted to buy me the ship on day 1 of my EVE carreer, what would I need to do? I'd have to buy PLEX for few thousand dollars, then I'd buy the ship (and then I'd notice that I can't fly it and ragequit)...

so, there's quite a straight line from dollars to ship. straight enough for the rest of the world to see a connection. If some lawyers don't get it cause in their world everything's special anyway...



The rest of the world... a lot of that rest of the world wouldn't even have a clue about MMOs except what they're told and even more wouldn't understand PLEX.

You would buy PLEX from CCP, then redeem those PLEX and you would receive the item (PLEX) in-game, at which point the dollar line stops as you have the in-game item. From then on it's only in-game items that effect it.

People make comparisons because it sounds more interesting.
Like a guy spends $9k on a ship that gets blown up now that sounds better than a guy spends $9k on a service.
symolan
BamBam Inc.
#92 - 2013-07-12 12:26:16 UTC  |  Edited by: symolan
Six Six Six wrote:

People make comparisons because it sounds more interesting.
Like a guy spends $9k on a ship that gets blown up now that sounds better than a guy spends $9k on a service.


you may be right regarding the rest of the world EDIT: regarding MMO's...

but, to the rest of the world the distinction between spending 9k on a product or on a service is

Irrelevant!

honestly, when you heard about that loss, didn't you calculate?
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#93 - 2013-07-12 12:42:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Six Six Six
symolan wrote:
Six Six Six wrote:

People make comparisons because it sounds more interesting.
Like a guy spends $9k on a ship that gets blown up now that sounds better than a guy spends $9k on a service.


you may be right regarding the rest of the world EDIT: regarding MMO's...

but, to the rest of the world the distinction between spending 9k on a product or on a service is

Irrelevant!

honestly, when you heard about that loss, didn't you calculate?



No I didn't calculate.

Because when I spend cash on in-game items (if direct shop payment, not EVE) or PLEX, I just write it off as it's only a service I'm paying for. I don't think my ship is worth $100 because I know it's worth $0 and I don't even own it anyway.

It wouldn't be the company's fault the guy spent $9k on their service he would be an adult after all (referring to my quote you quoted).

Actually this is part of why some people don't want to lose ships as some people view it as losing real money, which of course they're not.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2013-07-13 05:56:10 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You Is Now A Proper Noun.


Eh, friggin german grammar -.-

It states that everytime you address someone in a written conversation or a letter directly you capitalize the form of address (I hope that was even remotely understandable).

I'd correct it in my original post but I already wasted my time on writing up this abomination.

Oh, I thought you were doing that intentionally. Sorry.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-07-13 09:27:39 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Do not even think that pilot had that much ingame money himself.

That Revenant was outfitted with RL cash used to buy PLEX for Market based ISK.

Also, since ISK cannot be (legally) back converted into cash, the conversion mechanic at least allows the assignation of a form of scale to gains and losses in the game.

You want to claim that the pilot suffered no losses at all ??? Sounds like it.

You also seem to be bitter about it all. U MAD ?


I, too, don't think he had this much in-game money by himself. I'm pretty sure his friends in- and outside PL helped him out with some spare ISK, minerals and the CSAA to build this ship. Do you have any evidence that the ISK was gotten by selling PLEX/GTCs?

We already have a scale for gains and losses. If I lose a 40M Cruiser and you lose a 10M Frigate, I lost 4 times as much as you. There is no need to convert this to a different scale.

Of course, the pilot suffered a loss. After all, he lost a 300B Revenant. But (since in-game items can't be sold for real money) the monetary loss is exactly 0 dollar.

Why would I be mad or bitter about this?


I have it on pretty good authority that he already has a replacement lined up and all financed by himself using gtcs.